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I have myself a young rogue and I am looking for any advice tips or ticks to make sure I can get her where I want her.
1. I want her to be an effective hunter.
2. I want her to be able to pick her own boxes and that's it.
3. I want her to be in Sunfist
Starting Stats:
Strength (STR): 85
Constitution (CON): 60
Dexterity (DEX): 85
Agility (AGI): 85
Discipline (DIS): 70
Aura (AUR): 70
Logic (LOG): 65
Intuition (INT): 20
Wisdom (WIS): 60
Influence (INF): 60
At level 8 her skills are:
Armor Use..........................| 45 9
Shield Use.........................| 45 9
Combat Maneuvers...................| 45 9
Edged Weapons......................| 82 18
Ambush.............................| 82 18
Physical Fitness...................| 82 18
Dodging............................| 82 18
Magic Item Use.....................| 10 2
Harness Power......................| 5 1
Disarming Traps....................| 82 18
Picking Locks......................| 82 18
Stalking and Hiding................| 111 27
Perception.........................| 82 18
Climbing...........................| 15 3
Swimming...........................| 15 3
Spell Lists
Minor Elemental....................| 1
your Combat Maneuver training is as follows:
Skill name Mnemonic Ranks
Shadow Mastery smastery 2
Available Combat Maneuver Training Points: 3
sorry I don't know how to make those look pretty.
I enjoy bounties so I can do a fixstat later in her career if she needs it and at the moment she has 3 more free fixstats so if I need to do some adjusting that's totally doable.
With this build will she be able to do the things I want or will I need to do some adjusting of her skills? Should she have more cman every level? More ambushing? More shield? Less Stalking and Hiding and dumping the skills into something else? At the moment she seems very fragile and is getting hit quite a bit even with spells against critters only 2 above her level.
Thanks all!
This is similar to my TWC rogue's build. At level 58 I've been able to disarm and open most of my own boxes with 2x in Disarm/Picking (and the use of 403/404/Lock Master Wedges). I was able to get by just fine with 2x Stalking and Hiding until somewhere in my 50s where I had to start pushing it to around 2.5x to get it working well again. You might want to consider scaling back your S&H to 2x for now and use the points to beef your Shield Use to 2x. This should give you some of the defense you are looking for. You also may want to work up to 10-12 ranks of Arcane Symbols to help with disarming certain traps.
That's about all I have. I listed my rogues training below for reference:
(at level 58), your current skill bonuses and ranks (including all modifiers) are:
Skill Name | Current Current
| Bonus Ranks
Two Weapon Combat..................| 220 120
Armor Use..........................| 120 30
Combat Maneuvers...................| 160 60
Edged Weapons......................| 220 120
Ambush.............................| 220 120
Multi Opponent Combat..............| 45 9
Physical Fitness...................| 160 60
Dodging............................| 220 120
Arcane Symbols.....................| 58 12
Magic Item Use.....................| 78 17
Harness Power......................| 30 6
Survival...........................| 90 20
Disarming Traps....................| 220 120
Picking Locks......................| 220 120
Stalking and Hiding................| 252 152
Perception.........................| 220 120
Climbing...........................| 160 60
Swimming...........................| 70 15
First Aid..........................| 20 4
Trading............................| 50 10
Spell Lists
Minor Elemental....................| 4
-- Robert
That's about all I have. I listed my rogues training below for reference:
(at level 58), your current skill bonuses and ranks (including all modifiers) are:
Skill Name | Current Current
| Bonus Ranks
Two Weapon Combat..................| 220 120
Armor Use..........................| 120 30
Combat Maneuvers...................| 160 60
Edged Weapons......................| 220 120
Ambush.............................| 220 120
Multi Opponent Combat..............| 45 9
Physical Fitness...................| 160 60
Dodging............................| 220 120
Arcane Symbols.....................| 58 12
Magic Item Use.....................| 78 17
Harness Power......................| 30 6
Survival...........................| 90 20
Disarming Traps....................| 220 120
Picking Locks......................| 220 120
Stalking and Hiding................| 252 152
Perception.........................| 220 120
Climbing...........................| 160 60
Swimming...........................| 70 15
First Aid..........................| 20 4
Trading............................| 50 10
Spell Lists
Minor Elemental....................| 4
-- Robert
2 above your level is a lot bigger deal at level 8 than level 20. Also if you are using 0x equipment till level 10, it can feel quite fragile just before you jump into it. 4x over 0x on armor and shield is a lot of extra DS while you are in light armor with no redux. Your training for defense should be fine, provided you are in a defensive stance when critters swing at you.
Precise stats depend on race. I'd suggest you have WIS and AUR set to hit 100 at cap (for TD reasons) and I suspect 60 isn't high enough to get WIS there. INT is the trap detection stat. You'll need to train a bit more perception than normal to compensate for tanking it. Normally I'd say get 40-50 ranks as soon as possible and then only train it for other reasons than traps on your boxes, with a tanked INT make that 60-70 ranks.
Precise stats depend on race. I'd suggest you have WIS and AUR set to hit 100 at cap (for TD reasons) and I suspect 60 isn't high enough to get WIS there. INT is the trap detection stat. You'll need to train a bit more perception than normal to compensate for tanking it. Normally I'd say get 40-50 ranks as soon as possible and then only train it for other reasons than traps on your boxes, with a tanked INT make that 60-70 ranks.
Robert,
You seem to have 21 skills to my 16. How did you manage that? Is that just a result of getting more points as you gain levels or did your stat placement allow for so many more skills than I have?
Rath,
Str 80
Con 60
Dex 75
Agl 80
Dis 70
Aur 73
Log 65
Int 49
Wis 88
Inf 20
Would this stat placement be better? She is an Elf, so she does get a rather large bonus in AGL but it's also a prime stat so I was unsure if lowering that would make my PTP's lower in the beggining? I wasn't sure if tanking INF for a rogue was a bad plan or not. So I switched that up with INT and did some other point moving to try to work up WIS. Would lowering my strength a bit be more helpful. (Though losing the AS with a lower STR sorta makes me nervous.) I know I can't fit everything in the way I want it, but I'd like to get as close as possible.
And thank you both for taking the time to answer my questions. I hope you are having a marvelous day/night.
For stats I generally use a stat cruncher and set my stats to max out at level 100. Since I use Tsoran's Excel spreadsheet that I downloaded years ago and don't think it is available for download anywhere now I'll let others comment on the best available tool to use for this.
Stat placement will make some difference in training points but really the additional skills I have trained are due to being higher level. At different points as you progress you won't need to train in a skill any more, freeing up points to train in other things (e.g. Armor, AS, MIU, Climbing, Swimming).
Two Weapon Combat..................| 220 120 - core skill will always train 2x in this.
Armor Use..........................| 120 30 - at 30 ranks I can wear brig armor with minimal penalties, will train more after level 100. Rogues can wear anything from robes to plate so this is a matter of personal preference/what armor you have available. I happen to own an excellent set of brigandine so expect to be wearing brig all the way to level 100.
Combat Maneuvers...................| 160 60 - training 1x for now, may start trying to push this a bit beyond 1x in a few level. I would train more heavily in this if I weren't a locksmith.
Edged Weapons......................| 220 120 - core skill will always train 2x in this.
Ambush.............................| 220 120 - core skill will always train 2x in this.
Multi Opponent Combat..............| 45 9 - I only recently started training in this to try and reduce the penalty from multiple critters attacking me at once. Even though I hide in the shadows I hunt in a busy/swarmy area so this should help. I plan to stop training in it for now once I reach 10 ranks.
Physical Fitness...................| 160 60 - core skill will always train 1x in this. I would train 2x in it if I weren't a locksmith.
Dodging............................| 220 120 - core skill will always train 2x in this.
Arcane Symbols.....................| 58 12 - I started this out around 5 or 6 ranks early on and then added a rank any time a scarab got the better of me. A number of rogues seem to report that somewhere between 10-12 is good and possibly less is needed once you get higher level (your Disarm skill is more than sufficient then).
Magic Item Use.....................| 78 17 - I recently trained to 17 ranks in this so I could use blue crystals in a crystal holder (adds +75 to your next attack). Probably not something to worry about at your training.
Harness Power......................| 30 6 - This seems to provide enough mana that I can use 403/404 as needed even when I am opening a lot of boxes at once. Maybe I'll add one or two more ranks down the road.
Survival...........................| 90 20 - I had 0 training in this until I started hunting on Teras in my early 50s. Then I kept stepping into lava and similar perils. 20 ranks seems to have mostly addressed the issue.
Disarming Traps....................| 220 120 - 2x training seems to be working for the majority of my boxes. Occasionally I find a trap that is beyond my ability. 95+% is good enough for me at this time.
Picking Locks......................| 220 120 - I can probably pick at least 80% of the boxes I find now (it was higher at lower levels). I can open the rest using wedges (you learn how to do this by joining the rogues guild at level 15 and having them train you in lock mastery).
Stalking and Hiding................| 252 152 - 2x training worked great up until about level 50 or so. I started pushing it once I was being discovered too often and now things rarely find me again.
Perception.........................| 220 120 - core skill always train 2x in this. I think some folks will suggest that you can train less and still be effective.
Climbing...........................| 160 60 - Climbing is cheap so I decided to 1x it for life. 60 ranks will get you most anywhere. Generally you train climbing and swimming based on the requirements of where you are hunting.
Swimming...........................| 70 15 - Train to the requirements of your hunting areas.
First Aid..........................| 20 4 - Recently trained this just because. It takes 1 seconds off my herb eating round time.
Trading............................| 50 10 - Trained this years ago right before going to a festival. Decided to leave it.
Spell Lists
Minor Elemental....................| 4 - I LOVE being able to cast 403/404. I had 405 for awhile but gave it up to get to 17 ranks in MIU. I'll eventually train 405 back as I find it a useful utility spell.
Hope that helps some.
The minimum stat value for an elf for each stat to max out at level 100 is below. You'll have to trim back some points to meet the trainer rules (660 points, and only 4 stats over 70).
ELF Rogue
STR 62
CON 82
DEX S 49
AGL P 33
DIS 82
AUR M 73
LOG 73
INT 62
WIS M 88
INF 77
These were the starting stats for my Dark Elf Rogue and what they will be at level 100. I really didn't notice any hardship due to having a low agility early on or due to not min/maxing training points either.
DARK ELF Rogue
STR 62 100
CON 77 100
DEX S 49 100
AGL P 30 100
DIS 69 94
AUR M 82 100
LOG 73 100
INT 62 100
WIS M 88 100
INF 68 90
-- Robert
Stat placement will make some difference in training points but really the additional skills I have trained are due to being higher level. At different points as you progress you won't need to train in a skill any more, freeing up points to train in other things (e.g. Armor, AS, MIU, Climbing, Swimming).
Two Weapon Combat..................| 220 120 - core skill will always train 2x in this.
Armor Use..........................| 120 30 - at 30 ranks I can wear brig armor with minimal penalties, will train more after level 100. Rogues can wear anything from robes to plate so this is a matter of personal preference/what armor you have available. I happen to own an excellent set of brigandine so expect to be wearing brig all the way to level 100.
Combat Maneuvers...................| 160 60 - training 1x for now, may start trying to push this a bit beyond 1x in a few level. I would train more heavily in this if I weren't a locksmith.
Edged Weapons......................| 220 120 - core skill will always train 2x in this.
Ambush.............................| 220 120 - core skill will always train 2x in this.
Multi Opponent Combat..............| 45 9 - I only recently started training in this to try and reduce the penalty from multiple critters attacking me at once. Even though I hide in the shadows I hunt in a busy/swarmy area so this should help. I plan to stop training in it for now once I reach 10 ranks.
Physical Fitness...................| 160 60 - core skill will always train 1x in this. I would train 2x in it if I weren't a locksmith.
Dodging............................| 220 120 - core skill will always train 2x in this.
Arcane Symbols.....................| 58 12 - I started this out around 5 or 6 ranks early on and then added a rank any time a scarab got the better of me. A number of rogues seem to report that somewhere between 10-12 is good and possibly less is needed once you get higher level (your Disarm skill is more than sufficient then).
Magic Item Use.....................| 78 17 - I recently trained to 17 ranks in this so I could use blue crystals in a crystal holder (adds +75 to your next attack). Probably not something to worry about at your training.
Harness Power......................| 30 6 - This seems to provide enough mana that I can use 403/404 as needed even when I am opening a lot of boxes at once. Maybe I'll add one or two more ranks down the road.
Survival...........................| 90 20 - I had 0 training in this until I started hunting on Teras in my early 50s. Then I kept stepping into lava and similar perils. 20 ranks seems to have mostly addressed the issue.
Disarming Traps....................| 220 120 - 2x training seems to be working for the majority of my boxes. Occasionally I find a trap that is beyond my ability. 95+% is good enough for me at this time.
Picking Locks......................| 220 120 - I can probably pick at least 80% of the boxes I find now (it was higher at lower levels). I can open the rest using wedges (you learn how to do this by joining the rogues guild at level 15 and having them train you in lock mastery).
Stalking and Hiding................| 252 152 - 2x training worked great up until about level 50 or so. I started pushing it once I was being discovered too often and now things rarely find me again.
Perception.........................| 220 120 - core skill always train 2x in this. I think some folks will suggest that you can train less and still be effective.
Climbing...........................| 160 60 - Climbing is cheap so I decided to 1x it for life. 60 ranks will get you most anywhere. Generally you train climbing and swimming based on the requirements of where you are hunting.
Swimming...........................| 70 15 - Train to the requirements of your hunting areas.
First Aid..........................| 20 4 - Recently trained this just because. It takes 1 seconds off my herb eating round time.
Trading............................| 50 10 - Trained this years ago right before going to a festival. Decided to leave it.
Spell Lists
Minor Elemental....................| 4 - I LOVE being able to cast 403/404. I had 405 for awhile but gave it up to get to 17 ranks in MIU. I'll eventually train 405 back as I find it a useful utility spell.
Hope that helps some.
The minimum stat value for an elf for each stat to max out at level 100 is below. You'll have to trim back some points to meet the trainer rules (660 points, and only 4 stats over 70).
ELF Rogue
STR 62
CON 82
DEX S 49
AGL P 33
DIS 82
AUR M 73
LOG 73
INT 62
WIS M 88
INF 77
These were the starting stats for my Dark Elf Rogue and what they will be at level 100. I really didn't notice any hardship due to having a low agility early on or due to not min/maxing training points either.
DARK ELF Rogue
STR 62 100
CON 77 100
DEX S 49 100
AGL P 30 100
DIS 69 94
AUR M 82 100
LOG 73 100
INT 62 100
WIS M 88 100
INF 68 90
-- Robert
You are going to want more harness power for sigils and I'd suggest you hold off on learning minor elementals, you shouldn't need them for box opening for a while. For opening your own boxes I'd suggest getting 10 ranks of arcane symbols and 30 ranks pick/disarm/perception as goals before starting. Being low level scarabs aren't very doable until you have about 10 ranks of arcane symbols and they'll bite you a lot without it. You don't get full experience for picking/disarming until you have 30 ranks and you'll want the perception for spotting scarabs and the more difficult traps.
Stats are kind of up to you but I'll list them and why they might be important to you. I tend to urge people to set their stats for capped growth, stats like that can make the low levels a bit more difficult but once you get to 40+ it is more then worth it and you'll spend more of your time above 40 then below.
STR - AS, encumbrance, stamina
CON - health, encumbrance, stamina, natural crit padding
DEX - TPs, lockpicking, disarming, natural crit weighting for light weapons(short swords and under)
AGL - DS and maneuver dodging
DIS - Exp pool size and stun maneuvers
AUR - Max spirit and elemental TD
LOG - Exp absorption and exp pool size
INT - Spotting traps, minimal gains to DS and maneuver dodging
WIS - Spirit TD
INF - Provides bonus to divert, trading, and defending against warcries.
Stats are kind of up to you but I'll list them and why they might be important to you. I tend to urge people to set their stats for capped growth, stats like that can make the low levels a bit more difficult but once you get to 40+ it is more then worth it and you'll spend more of your time above 40 then below.
STR - AS, encumbrance, stamina
CON - health, encumbrance, stamina, natural crit padding
DEX - TPs, lockpicking, disarming, natural crit weighting for light weapons(short swords and under)
AGL - DS and maneuver dodging
DIS - Exp pool size and stun maneuvers
AUR - Max spirit and elemental TD
LOG - Exp absorption and exp pool size
INT - Spotting traps, minimal gains to DS and maneuver dodging
WIS - Spirit TD
INF - Provides bonus to divert, trading, and defending against warcries.
Neither setting is horrible and the character should be playable either way. If you are committed to fixstat at some point you don't need to worry too much about having WIS high early. There are things you lose out on with a tanked INF too (e.g. divert, intimidation)
Setting prime stats to hit 100 around level 50 is a decent compromise between growth and training points.
I'd keep STR as close to its growth value as you are comfortable with, but like the prime stats, you are probably going to want to put extra points into its starting value.
Setting prime stats to hit 100 around level 50 is a decent compromise between growth and training points.
I'd keep STR as close to its growth value as you are comfortable with, but like the prime stats, you are probably going to want to put extra points into its starting value.
