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I bet everyone does the following, and I promise I'll go backwards a bit and read over some examples of when to learn from them whatever i can, but here goes:
I'm back after years. I'm getting my feet under me again but am not sure if my build way off.
my goals:
to summon decent undead someday
hit hard with mealstrom and 702 (though I'm sure there's much to learn/remember about my other good spells)
*be as defensive as possible. if there is some combat maneuver that passively helps keep me on my feet, or dodging better or something, I'd want to lean toward it.
The hiding and sneaking are more for rp or fun with players. I don't plan to be leaping out of the shadows with a blade trying to ambush high level creatures.
spell aiming? I don't do much with wands that I remember, but maybe it helps some of my usual offensive spells? I've looked over some info on the site, but am still a little foggy.
if anyone can help by taking a quick look and letting me know if I should redo my skill points, I'd be a very happy witch. and appreciative.
in the meantime I'm going get to work reading some of what's on the site
Lasierre (at level 32), your current skill bonuses and ranks (including all modifiers) are:
Skill Name | Current Current
| Bonus Ranks
Armor Use..........................| 120 30
Shield Use.........................| 66 14
Edged Weapons......................| 90 20
Polearm Weapons....................| 25 5
Physical Fitness...................| 114 28
Spell Aiming.......................| 138 39
Harness Power......................| 140 40
Elemental Mana Control.............| 93 21
Spirit Mana Control................| 70 15
Sorcerous Lore - Demonology........| 78 17
Sorcerous Lore - Necromancy........| 78 17
Survival...........................| 35 7
Disarming Traps....................| 30 6
Picking Locks......................| 25 5
Stalking and Hiding................| 70 15
Perception.........................| 78 17
Climbing...........................| 70 15
Swimming...........................| 70 15
First Aid..........................| 70 15
Trading............................| 54 11
Spell Lists
Minor Elemental....................| 20
Spell Lists
Minor Spiritual....................| 22
Spell Lists
Sorcerer...........................| 26
Training Points: 100 Phy 2 Mnt
(Use SKILLS BASE to display unmodified ranks and goals)
Whew, interesting stuff. Let me start with the goals.
>Summon decent undead someday
Realistically, you can't summon undead. What you CAN do is animate the corpses of enemies for a preset period of time based on your skill and level. You can only have 1 animate at a time, and the process of doing so requires no less than 4 ingredients per "animation", and an additional 2 tools for processing said ingredients. The use of the skill basically comes down to this: With NO Necromancy, you can animate enemies that are ten levels below you (at 32, that means something level 22), however the success rate is not 100%. The system is refered to as Maximum Animatable Level, or MAL (this would be a MAL of -10). At 25 ranks, this increases to -9, and every 5 ranks after that, it goes up an additional point. Thus, 50 ranks would be a MAL of -4. Its much more complex than this, but this is how the spell works, and what you would need to do. You would want to 1x Necromancy for life, possibly more.
>Hit hard with maelstrom
Maelstrom's strength is influenced by 2 major factors: Your level vs that of the target, and with the focused version, Spell Aiming skill. For proficient Maelstrom use, you would want 2x Spell Aim.
>Hit hard with 702
There is no lore/skill training for 702 at all at this time. All you can do is increase your CS by training more in spells. However, you can CHANNEL for a increase to power. Channeling's benefit is enhanced by being in more offensive stances and by the number of open hands. The ideal channel cast would be barehanded in full offensive. Thats all you can do for 702.
>Be defensive as possible.
Your weapons training is a mishmash of chaos, and I can only assume this is because its from an older time when there were no runestaves. At this time, you need to make a decision about what type of weapon you want to use. The most common for a sorcerer is the runestaff, which is a non-attack weapon which offers nothing but defense. The upside is that you don't have to train in any weapon skills. The defense of the runestaff is based on your magic skills, on a ranks per level system. If you have 8 ranks of magic skills per level, this gives you the equivalent defense of being trained in a weapon. These ranks include spells, lores, magic item use, arcane symbols, harness power, mana controls and spell aim.
Alternatively, coming from an older era, you may be more inclined to do things old school. If that is the case, you can go weapon/shield, but you need to pick one. You have 5 ranks of Polearm skill that is literally wasting points, since 5 ranks of a weapon skill at level 32 is worthless. Similarly, you don't have enough points in either Shields OR Edged weapons to be fully proficient in them. A more realistic alternative is to go fully trained in Edged Weapons and Shields (should be 34ish ranks at your level).
Another option is the "open hand/shield" build. In this, you train for shields, forgo weapons and runestaves, and go like that. It has benefits over runestaves, but takes more TPs to do.
>spell aiming? I don't do much with wands that I remember, but maybe it helps some of my usual offensive spells?
Spell Aiming is a core component of the average Sorcerer's skillset these days. Even I had to go fully 2xed after going to level 75 at only 1x per level. Spell Aim contributes to bolt AS, which is relevant for using our powerful ball spells Balefire and Fire Spirit. It is also relevant in Maelstrom power versus higher level targets. Finally, Spell Aim is a primary factor in the use of Implosion.
I'm going to do another post to look at your skillset, because I can see this is long.
>Summon decent undead someday
Realistically, you can't summon undead. What you CAN do is animate the corpses of enemies for a preset period of time based on your skill and level. You can only have 1 animate at a time, and the process of doing so requires no less than 4 ingredients per "animation", and an additional 2 tools for processing said ingredients. The use of the skill basically comes down to this: With NO Necromancy, you can animate enemies that are ten levels below you (at 32, that means something level 22), however the success rate is not 100%. The system is refered to as Maximum Animatable Level, or MAL (this would be a MAL of -10). At 25 ranks, this increases to -9, and every 5 ranks after that, it goes up an additional point. Thus, 50 ranks would be a MAL of -4. Its much more complex than this, but this is how the spell works, and what you would need to do. You would want to 1x Necromancy for life, possibly more.
>Hit hard with maelstrom
Maelstrom's strength is influenced by 2 major factors: Your level vs that of the target, and with the focused version, Spell Aiming skill. For proficient Maelstrom use, you would want 2x Spell Aim.
>Hit hard with 702
There is no lore/skill training for 702 at all at this time. All you can do is increase your CS by training more in spells. However, you can CHANNEL for a increase to power. Channeling's benefit is enhanced by being in more offensive stances and by the number of open hands. The ideal channel cast would be barehanded in full offensive. Thats all you can do for 702.
>Be defensive as possible.
Your weapons training is a mishmash of chaos, and I can only assume this is because its from an older time when there were no runestaves. At this time, you need to make a decision about what type of weapon you want to use. The most common for a sorcerer is the runestaff, which is a non-attack weapon which offers nothing but defense. The upside is that you don't have to train in any weapon skills. The defense of the runestaff is based on your magic skills, on a ranks per level system. If you have 8 ranks of magic skills per level, this gives you the equivalent defense of being trained in a weapon. These ranks include spells, lores, magic item use, arcane symbols, harness power, mana controls and spell aim.
Alternatively, coming from an older era, you may be more inclined to do things old school. If that is the case, you can go weapon/shield, but you need to pick one. You have 5 ranks of Polearm skill that is literally wasting points, since 5 ranks of a weapon skill at level 32 is worthless. Similarly, you don't have enough points in either Shields OR Edged weapons to be fully proficient in them. A more realistic alternative is to go fully trained in Edged Weapons and Shields (should be 34ish ranks at your level).
Another option is the "open hand/shield" build. In this, you train for shields, forgo weapons and runestaves, and go like that. It has benefits over runestaves, but takes more TPs to do.
>spell aiming? I don't do much with wands that I remember, but maybe it helps some of my usual offensive spells?
Spell Aiming is a core component of the average Sorcerer's skillset these days. Even I had to go fully 2xed after going to level 75 at only 1x per level. Spell Aim contributes to bolt AS, which is relevant for using our powerful ball spells Balefire and Fire Spirit. It is also relevant in Maelstrom power versus higher level targets. Finally, Spell Aim is a primary factor in the use of Implosion.
I'm going to do another post to look at your skillset, because I can see this is long.
Lets start at the top:
Armor Use - What kind of armor are you in? 30 ranks is a very random number. Most Sorcerers wear Full Leathers or Double Leathers. Higher is not unheard of, but it often comes with significant spell hindrance, and is usually only done because the sorcerer in question has very nice armor that is worth the spell hindrance. Cuirbouilli leather takes 27 ranks to train off Sorcerer spell hindrance to its minimum. If you are in Cuirboulli, drop 3 ranks and call it a day (and consider going lower if you don't have valuable armor). If you are in anything higher, take it off, because you aren't trained for it. If you are wearing anything LOWER than Cuirboulli, then you have a ton of points wasted on armor. Let us know what you have so we can tell you how many ranks to drop.
Shield Use - If you are going to go open-hand/shield or sword/board, then you need to be 1x in Shield Use. If not, then drop the ranks. This is one of those all or nothing sort of situations.
Edged Weapons/Polearms - Whats going on here? Like Shield Use, its pretty all or nothing, one or the other. Your 5 ranks in Polearm is a HUGE amount of points that aren't giving you any benefit, and the 20 in Edged is much like the Shield Use (you want to go all or nothing). Make a decision about what weapon type you want and then try to stick with it, because the end result of this is that you are not proficient with Shields, Edged Weapons OR Polearms as it stands.
Spell Aiming - I mentioned before that Spell Aiming isn't just for wizard wands anymore. Its an important component of Implosion, Maelstrom, Limb Disruption, and two ball spells we have, not to mention a magic rank for runestaves.
Mana Controls - These are very valuable these days. While you can let it go for now, I would recommend going 1x in each for life. These contribute to a variety of spells such as Balefire, Scroll Infusion, Dark Catalyst, Implosion, Animate Dead, and Planar Shift. They also increase your mana recovery and offer a variety of spell casting benefits available through the MANA verb.
Picking Locks/Disarming - Do you intend to go 1x in both of these? As it stands, these are like your Polearm skill; they aren't enough to do any good at all, and in the meantime, are sapping valuable TPs. You have a LOT of tertiary skills invested in, and I can tell you have a jack of all trades approach, but the skills you have picked do not work with the concept of "jack of all trades, master of none". The skills you have dabbled in are effectively useless without a SIGNIFICANT increase in your training.
First Aid/Survival/Trading - Similar to the above, there are only so many points to go around, and you have other priorities right now. While Survival and Trading do have benefits, it is my personal experience with First Aid that it is a limited benefit at best. Consider cutting back until you have things more organized and focused.
Spells - This is a mess. 26 ranks in Sorcerer spells is a pretty significant mistake, as its costing you 6 Sorcerer CS at a pretty CS crucial period in a Sorcerer's training. You should be 1x or HIGHER for life in Sorcerer spells. Meanwhile, I can't figure out whats going on with the Minor circles. There is very limited benefit past rank 20 in Minor Spiritual, and while most Sorcerers DO continue training past 20, there are other priorities to attend to first. I suggest cutting back to 20 for now, and then putting those ranks into Minor Elemental. At level 25 in Minor Elemental, you get Elemental Targetting which will give you an important CS boost, and at level 30, you get Elemental Barrier, an important defensive spell. After that, you can look into continuing Minor Spiritual, but that shouldn't be a priority.
If you intend to go runestaff, you will need to completely overhaul your training plan, because you don't have 7 magic ranks per level yet, while 8 is the goal.
My recommendations:
Step 1 - Your top priority is figuring out your intended weapon, training it fully, and dropping everything else. Options for you are Sword/Shield, Open Hand/Shield, Two-Handed Polearm, One-Handed Polearm/Shield, or Runestaff. You could theoretically alternate between Sword/Shield and Open Hand/Shield, as well as putting your shield away for two-handed polearms, but pick one to aim for and give up the rest. And you need to go all in with it to, these skills should be 1x.
Step 2 - Figure out what type of armor you are using. If its above Cuirbouilli, drop down to Cuirbouilli, because you don't have the ranks to go higher right now. If its below that, then drop as many ranks as you need to get into whatever you are wearing (20 for Leather Breastplate, 8 for Double Leathers /Reinforced Leathers, 4 for Full Leathers). If you ARE in Cuirbouilli, and its off the shelf, low enchant junk, consider dropping down anyway. Its giving you 6% spell failure, and you can't afford that with an already low CS and what I can only assume is a very poor DS. If you absolutely must be in Cuirbouilli, drop to 27, since thats 3 wasted ranks of an expensive skill.
Step 3 - Fix your spell training. If you follow Step 1 and Step 2, it should free up a few hundred TPs to work with, and that will give you some flexibility. You want at least 32 ranks in Sorcerer circle (1x for life), drop Minor Spirit to 20, and try to beef up those Minor Elemental ranks to 25 and 30 as fast as possible.
Step 4 - Look into dropping some tertiary skills (Locks/Disarm/First Aid/Trading/Survival/Hiding). You are stretched really thin for very little reward. Your Hiding ranks for RP are going to offer little benefit with such a low number, and they eat up TPs. Keep them if you must, but they are a TP sink that you can't afford with all the other things you have invested in. Alternatively, drop the other skills to free up the points for the Hiding ranks.
This is going to be a very dramatic change, and it will probably take a bit of back-and-forth between you and the forums. I've seen you around the Landing, so I may track you down and discuss this with you in person if you like. Post any more questions you have, and let us know what you want from the character. Right now, your posted goals for your character are less pressing than ensuring that your character is trained for their weapon/armor and has the right spell training.
ALSO: I missed one thing, you wanted to train in Combat Maneuvers that would make you better at avoiding maneuvers and dodging and stuff. That is really not an option; maneuvers are the weakness of Sorcerers. Emphasis is on crowd control and disabling the target, not tanking their attacks. There are a handful of CMs available that will confer a defensive benefit towards that SAME maneuver (Disarm and Feint are two key examples), and a CM called Cunning Defense which grants limited benefits against ALL combat maneuvers (but not creature maneuvers or spells like E-wave or Roater burrows). And dodging is almost worthless for the points it cost. Keep training in Physical Fitness and Perception though, because they help more than just about anything else. But training so that you just outright avoid these attacks is the wrong approach, and it won't work. Make sure you are NEVER encumbered, keep up the Physical Fitness/Perception, and prevent the enemies from even getting a chance to use these attacks.
Armor Use - What kind of armor are you in? 30 ranks is a very random number. Most Sorcerers wear Full Leathers or Double Leathers. Higher is not unheard of, but it often comes with significant spell hindrance, and is usually only done because the sorcerer in question has very nice armor that is worth the spell hindrance. Cuirbouilli leather takes 27 ranks to train off Sorcerer spell hindrance to its minimum. If you are in Cuirboulli, drop 3 ranks and call it a day (and consider going lower if you don't have valuable armor). If you are in anything higher, take it off, because you aren't trained for it. If you are wearing anything LOWER than Cuirboulli, then you have a ton of points wasted on armor. Let us know what you have so we can tell you how many ranks to drop.
Shield Use - If you are going to go open-hand/shield or sword/board, then you need to be 1x in Shield Use. If not, then drop the ranks. This is one of those all or nothing sort of situations.
Edged Weapons/Polearms - Whats going on here? Like Shield Use, its pretty all or nothing, one or the other. Your 5 ranks in Polearm is a HUGE amount of points that aren't giving you any benefit, and the 20 in Edged is much like the Shield Use (you want to go all or nothing). Make a decision about what weapon type you want and then try to stick with it, because the end result of this is that you are not proficient with Shields, Edged Weapons OR Polearms as it stands.
Spell Aiming - I mentioned before that Spell Aiming isn't just for wizard wands anymore. Its an important component of Implosion, Maelstrom, Limb Disruption, and two ball spells we have, not to mention a magic rank for runestaves.
Mana Controls - These are very valuable these days. While you can let it go for now, I would recommend going 1x in each for life. These contribute to a variety of spells such as Balefire, Scroll Infusion, Dark Catalyst, Implosion, Animate Dead, and Planar Shift. They also increase your mana recovery and offer a variety of spell casting benefits available through the MANA verb.
Picking Locks/Disarming - Do you intend to go 1x in both of these? As it stands, these are like your Polearm skill; they aren't enough to do any good at all, and in the meantime, are sapping valuable TPs. You have a LOT of tertiary skills invested in, and I can tell you have a jack of all trades approach, but the skills you have picked do not work with the concept of "jack of all trades, master of none". The skills you have dabbled in are effectively useless without a SIGNIFICANT increase in your training.
First Aid/Survival/Trading - Similar to the above, there are only so many points to go around, and you have other priorities right now. While Survival and Trading do have benefits, it is my personal experience with First Aid that it is a limited benefit at best. Consider cutting back until you have things more organized and focused.
Spells - This is a mess. 26 ranks in Sorcerer spells is a pretty significant mistake, as its costing you 6 Sorcerer CS at a pretty CS crucial period in a Sorcerer's training. You should be 1x or HIGHER for life in Sorcerer spells. Meanwhile, I can't figure out whats going on with the Minor circles. There is very limited benefit past rank 20 in Minor Spiritual, and while most Sorcerers DO continue training past 20, there are other priorities to attend to first. I suggest cutting back to 20 for now, and then putting those ranks into Minor Elemental. At level 25 in Minor Elemental, you get Elemental Targetting which will give you an important CS boost, and at level 30, you get Elemental Barrier, an important defensive spell. After that, you can look into continuing Minor Spiritual, but that shouldn't be a priority.
If you intend to go runestaff, you will need to completely overhaul your training plan, because you don't have 7 magic ranks per level yet, while 8 is the goal.
My recommendations:
Step 1 - Your top priority is figuring out your intended weapon, training it fully, and dropping everything else. Options for you are Sword/Shield, Open Hand/Shield, Two-Handed Polearm, One-Handed Polearm/Shield, or Runestaff. You could theoretically alternate between Sword/Shield and Open Hand/Shield, as well as putting your shield away for two-handed polearms, but pick one to aim for and give up the rest. And you need to go all in with it to, these skills should be 1x.
Step 2 - Figure out what type of armor you are using. If its above Cuirbouilli, drop down to Cuirbouilli, because you don't have the ranks to go higher right now. If its below that, then drop as many ranks as you need to get into whatever you are wearing (20 for Leather Breastplate, 8 for Double Leathers /Reinforced Leathers, 4 for Full Leathers). If you ARE in Cuirbouilli, and its off the shelf, low enchant junk, consider dropping down anyway. Its giving you 6% spell failure, and you can't afford that with an already low CS and what I can only assume is a very poor DS. If you absolutely must be in Cuirbouilli, drop to 27, since thats 3 wasted ranks of an expensive skill.
Step 3 - Fix your spell training. If you follow Step 1 and Step 2, it should free up a few hundred TPs to work with, and that will give you some flexibility. You want at least 32 ranks in Sorcerer circle (1x for life), drop Minor Spirit to 20, and try to beef up those Minor Elemental ranks to 25 and 30 as fast as possible.
Step 4 - Look into dropping some tertiary skills (Locks/Disarm/First Aid/Trading/Survival/Hiding). You are stretched really thin for very little reward. Your Hiding ranks for RP are going to offer little benefit with such a low number, and they eat up TPs. Keep them if you must, but they are a TP sink that you can't afford with all the other things you have invested in. Alternatively, drop the other skills to free up the points for the Hiding ranks.
This is going to be a very dramatic change, and it will probably take a bit of back-and-forth between you and the forums. I've seen you around the Landing, so I may track you down and discuss this with you in person if you like. Post any more questions you have, and let us know what you want from the character. Right now, your posted goals for your character are less pressing than ensuring that your character is trained for their weapon/armor and has the right spell training.
ALSO: I missed one thing, you wanted to train in Combat Maneuvers that would make you better at avoiding maneuvers and dodging and stuff. That is really not an option; maneuvers are the weakness of Sorcerers. Emphasis is on crowd control and disabling the target, not tanking their attacks. There are a handful of CMs available that will confer a defensive benefit towards that SAME maneuver (Disarm and Feint are two key examples), and a CM called Cunning Defense which grants limited benefits against ALL combat maneuvers (but not creature maneuvers or spells like E-wave or Roater burrows). And dodging is almost worthless for the points it cost. Keep training in Physical Fitness and Perception though, because they help more than just about anything else. But training so that you just outright avoid these attacks is the wrong approach, and it won't work. Make sure you are NEVER encumbered, keep up the Physical Fitness/Perception, and prevent the enemies from even getting a chance to use these attacks.
There are so many skills you are training in that are not needed. Personally I would:
Dump trading, survival (unless you are in Ice Mule area), stalking and hiding, picking, disarming traps, polearms, shield, edged weapons. First aid is iffy; it does help reduce RT from using herbs as well as helping you skin things. Forget them for now that is; if you want to add some of those ancillary skills later on, when you have more free TPs, that's fine.
2x spell aiming, 2x harness power. And for God's sake, get some MIU and AS skills, so you can use wands and scrolls!
OK, I know that you want S&H for fun with friends, but it's detracting from your hunting ability by tying up TPs. Get some glass amulets and rub them when you want to be unseen.
Now, if you REALLY want to use weapons in combat, pick one class and stick with it. Note that if you do go this route, you will be less effective than a cleric, empath or mage with weapons, but it can be done. You will, however, have to learn Combat Maneuvers just to keep your AS halfway effective. If you just want defence, you could go with a combination of brawling and shield. This will keep one hand open for channeling spells, and give you the DS of a shield and brawling. Or you could use a runestaff and just pick up some brawling for DS in case you get disarmed.
The bells of Hell
go ting-a-ling-a-ling
for you but not for me
Dump trading, survival (unless you are in Ice Mule area), stalking and hiding, picking, disarming traps, polearms, shield, edged weapons. First aid is iffy; it does help reduce RT from using herbs as well as helping you skin things. Forget them for now that is; if you want to add some of those ancillary skills later on, when you have more free TPs, that's fine.
2x spell aiming, 2x harness power. And for God's sake, get some MIU and AS skills, so you can use wands and scrolls!
OK, I know that you want S&H for fun with friends, but it's detracting from your hunting ability by tying up TPs. Get some glass amulets and rub them when you want to be unseen.
Now, if you REALLY want to use weapons in combat, pick one class and stick with it. Note that if you do go this route, you will be less effective than a cleric, empath or mage with weapons, but it can be done. You will, however, have to learn Combat Maneuvers just to keep your AS halfway effective. If you just want defence, you could go with a combination of brawling and shield. This will keep one hand open for channeling spells, and give you the DS of a shield and brawling. Or you could use a runestaff and just pick up some brawling for DS in case you get disarmed.
The bells of Hell
go ting-a-ling-a-ling
for you but not for me
OK, this is an example of a possible skill set if you wanted to use weapons. I personally wouldn't recommend it for someone not experienced in such matters; amongst other things, you can't really use spell 102 when using a weapon, so your DS will suffer. It's a wee level 19 sorceress I am experimenting with. Since she IS using weapons, she is only 1x in HP. Armor is double leather.
>>Gwenaevere (at level 19), your current skill bonuses and ranks (including all modifiers) are:
Skill Name | Current Current
| Bonus Ranks
Armor Use..........................| 40 8
Combat Maneuvers...................| 58 12
Two-Handed Weapons.................| 90 20
Physical Fitness...................| 93 21
Arcane Symbols.....................| 78 17
Magic Item Use.....................| 86 19
Spell Aiming.......................| 141 41
Harness Power......................| 90 20
Spirit Mana Control................| 70 15
Sorcerous Lore - Demonology........| 35 7
Sorcerous Lore - Necromancy........| 5 1
Perception.........................| 50 10
Climbing...........................| 40 8
Swimming...........................| 20 4
Spell Lists
Minor Elemental....................| 11
Spell Lists
Minor Spiritual....................| 11
Spell Lists
Sorcerer...........................| 17
Training Points: 10 Phy 10 Mnt<<
The bells of Hell
go ting-a-ling-a-ling
for you but not for me
>>Gwenaevere (at level 19), your current skill bonuses and ranks (including all modifiers) are:
Skill Name | Current Current
| Bonus Ranks
Armor Use..........................| 40 8
Combat Maneuvers...................| 58 12
Two-Handed Weapons.................| 90 20
Physical Fitness...................| 93 21
Arcane Symbols.....................| 78 17
Magic Item Use.....................| 86 19
Spell Aiming.......................| 141 41
Harness Power......................| 90 20
Spirit Mana Control................| 70 15
Sorcerous Lore - Demonology........| 35 7
Sorcerous Lore - Necromancy........| 5 1
Perception.........................| 50 10
Climbing...........................| 40 8
Swimming...........................| 20 4
Spell Lists
Minor Elemental....................| 11
Spell Lists
Minor Spiritual....................| 11
Spell Lists
Sorcerer...........................| 17
Training Points: 10 Phy 10 Mnt<<
The bells of Hell
go ting-a-ling-a-ling
for you but not for me
On the other hand, here is a pure caster, using a runestaff. Note the relatively high TP conversion as opposed to the former example which has zero TPs converted. this happenes with all pure casters, don't let it scare you.
G...... (at level 42), your current skill bonuses and ranks (including all modifiers) are:
Skill Name | Current Current
| Bonus Ranks
Armor Use..........................| 40 8
Physical Fitness...................| 105 25
Arcane Symbols.....................| 96 22
Magic Item Use.....................| 138 39
Spell Aiming.......................| 188 88
Harness Power......................| 188 88
Elemental Mana Control.............| 90 20
Spirit Mana Control................| 140 40
Spiritual Lore - Summoning.........| 90 20
Sorcerous Lore - Demonology........| 120 30
Sorcerous Lore - Necromancy........| 5 1
Perception.........................| 120 30
Climbing...........................| 93 21
Swimming...........................| 58 12
Spell Lists
Minor Elemental....................| 35
Spell Lists
Minor Spiritual....................| 30
Spell Lists
Sorcerer...........................| 34
Training Points: 2 Phy 0 Mnt (1118 Phy converted to Mnt)
The bells of Hell
go ting-a-ling-a-ling
for you but not for me
G...... (at level 42), your current skill bonuses and ranks (including all modifiers) are:
Skill Name | Current Current
| Bonus Ranks
Armor Use..........................| 40 8
Physical Fitness...................| 105 25
Arcane Symbols.....................| 96 22
Magic Item Use.....................| 138 39
Spell Aiming.......................| 188 88
Harness Power......................| 188 88
Elemental Mana Control.............| 90 20
Spirit Mana Control................| 140 40
Spiritual Lore - Summoning.........| 90 20
Sorcerous Lore - Demonology........| 120 30
Sorcerous Lore - Necromancy........| 5 1
Perception.........................| 120 30
Climbing...........................| 93 21
Swimming...........................| 58 12
Spell Lists
Minor Elemental....................| 35
Spell Lists
Minor Spiritual....................| 30
Spell Lists
Sorcerer...........................| 34
Training Points: 2 Phy 0 Mnt (1118 Phy converted to Mnt)
The bells of Hell
go ting-a-ling-a-ling
for you but not for me
I have to agree with the other two posters, if you're not having major trouble now, you will be very soon.
A few things to keep in mind about being a sorcerer no matter how you train them: 1. The vast majority of both your defense and offense is going to come from your spells. 2. You're going to suck against maneuvers, so don't let a critter use them in the first place and carry as little as possible when hunting. 3. You might suck at maneuvers, but if you train right, AS attacks and magical attacks will rarely bother you.
Since you seem to favor non-magical secondary and tertiary skills, I'd say OHE/shield or Brawling/shield would be the way for you to go. With OHE you can get an enchanted weapon for extra DS where with brawling you always have an empty hand for CHANNELing your spells and cannot be disarmed. With this route, you should train in the following, at the bare minimum:
1x either OHE or Brawling
1x shield
25-30 ranks in Physical Fitness (you'll eventually want to 1x in this)
1-2x Harness Power
2x spell aiming
1x in either spirit or elemental mana control, 25 ranks in the other (you'll eventually want to 1x in both)
1x in either Necro Lore or Demon Lore
2x or more in spells
No matter what else you train in, this should be in there. Untrain whatever else you have to to get this!
For spells, you NEED 1x in sorcerer spells or your CS will suffer greatly. For the other two circles, get 425 ASAP. Once you have 425 and 120, I'd recommend putting all your spell training into the sorcerer circle until you have your level +20 ranks in Sorcerer spells then keep it at your level +20 ranks while you get the other spells in the spirit and elemental circles (I didn't do this and am currently suffering as a result and playing catchup).
Once you have the minimum training listed above, you can use any extra points getting whatever you wish. I'd suggest getting some climbing and swimming for getting into various hunting grounds and eventually gettins 25-30 ranks in both Arcane Runes and MIU so you can use scrolls and magic items, but that's up to you.
If you're happy wearing full leather or robes, you don't HAVE to train in Armor, but if you want to wear anything heavier figure out what the minimum training in Armor use is for what you want and get it.
Lastly, whatever secondary or tertiary skills you get, look into how many ranks you need to be decent at them, many of them require you 1x in them at a minimum but you can get away with less in others (MIU for example).
Starchitin
A severed gnomish hand crawls in on its fingertips and makes a rude gesture before quickly decaying and rotting into dust. A gust of wind quickly scatters the dust.
A few things to keep in mind about being a sorcerer no matter how you train them: 1. The vast majority of both your defense and offense is going to come from your spells. 2. You're going to suck against maneuvers, so don't let a critter use them in the first place and carry as little as possible when hunting. 3. You might suck at maneuvers, but if you train right, AS attacks and magical attacks will rarely bother you.
Since you seem to favor non-magical secondary and tertiary skills, I'd say OHE/shield or Brawling/shield would be the way for you to go. With OHE you can get an enchanted weapon for extra DS where with brawling you always have an empty hand for CHANNELing your spells and cannot be disarmed. With this route, you should train in the following, at the bare minimum:
1x either OHE or Brawling
1x shield
25-30 ranks in Physical Fitness (you'll eventually want to 1x in this)
1-2x Harness Power
2x spell aiming
1x in either spirit or elemental mana control, 25 ranks in the other (you'll eventually want to 1x in both)
1x in either Necro Lore or Demon Lore
2x or more in spells
No matter what else you train in, this should be in there. Untrain whatever else you have to to get this!
For spells, you NEED 1x in sorcerer spells or your CS will suffer greatly. For the other two circles, get 425 ASAP. Once you have 425 and 120, I'd recommend putting all your spell training into the sorcerer circle until you have your level +20 ranks in Sorcerer spells then keep it at your level +20 ranks while you get the other spells in the spirit and elemental circles (I didn't do this and am currently suffering as a result and playing catchup).
Once you have the minimum training listed above, you can use any extra points getting whatever you wish. I'd suggest getting some climbing and swimming for getting into various hunting grounds and eventually gettins 25-30 ranks in both Arcane Runes and MIU so you can use scrolls and magic items, but that's up to you.
If you're happy wearing full leather or robes, you don't HAVE to train in Armor, but if you want to wear anything heavier figure out what the minimum training in Armor use is for what you want and get it.
Lastly, whatever secondary or tertiary skills you get, look into how many ranks you need to be decent at them, many of them require you 1x in them at a minimum but you can get away with less in others (MIU for example).
Starchitin
A severed gnomish hand crawls in on its fingertips and makes a rude gesture before quickly decaying and rotting into dust. A gust of wind quickly scatters the dust.
It used to be single-training in Sorcerer spells was fine for life. Unfortunately, it appears that routine overtraining has resulted in creature tweaks, such that now if you're not overtrained by 20 levels you're CS is going to suck. I'm in that boat. If I were bringing up a new sorcerer, I'd shoot for that extra 20 CS as early as possible.
Another thing that's changed is Harness Power. It used to be that singling in HP was fine. Now you're going to be hurting for mana all the time if you're not doubled. I'm constantly having power problems, and there's really no way of compensating for it (especially as a Volnie).
On the subject of Societies, I think Sunfist is probably best all-around for boosting mana, but the other one's fine if you don't mind spirit penalties. Sunfist also makes use of those stamina points you probably won't use for anything else.
Spell aim used to be considered a waste, but now it's mandatory. There's no reason not to double-train in SA, and you'll be missing a lot of great perks without it. And waving wizard wands will no longer get you laughed out of the Sorcerer Guild. Times have changed.
Definitely make a fast-track to 425. You're going to need it. Keep training in MnE for more AS, CS and DS. I went for Wall of Force, which I really needed at the time (I had a brawling build, no shield)...but now that I switched to runestaff, it's hardly ever used except in invasions. At lower levels you can't afford the mana to cast it anyway, so might as well stop at 120 and get your other spells done.
I still miss my brawling. I loved being able to channel MD empty-handed (it really does make a difference). I also liked being able to switch to Voln-fu (R.I.P.) against undead to save mana. UAC is not practical, however, with only 1x in brawling--and especially wearing airwall, which you really, really need with a brawling build. So...I've given it up as nonviable. It's not impossible, but it's not all that much fun anymore, and you miss out on a LOT of other skills in the meantime.
Having said all that, I'm still a "non-optimal" build, but I also enjoy the perks of being somewhat well-rounded. I have about .5x First Aid, Survival, and Trading. Fully 1x perception for life (another old-school hangover). I have 50 ranks each of Elemental Mana Control and Spiritual Mana Control, which is enough to use MANA SPELLUP once a day, and use multicast x4. Also have 30 ranks of Summoning Lore for locating in adjacent realms, and using the bolt version of web, among other things. I have about 1.5x Arcane Symbols for scroll infusing, though I'd like to get that to 2x. I have close to 1x demonology and 25 ranks necromancy (I should've left it at 21).
My tertiary skills are a bit excessive for a non-capped sorcerer. But they're all skills I use and appreciate on a daily basis, and they're within reasonable limits. It just depends on how much power you're willing to sacrifice.
I have major mana issues when hunting, even bringing a demon along, using sacrifice, Symbol of Mana, etc. It's just not enough. This is complicated by a lagging CS. Forget Dark Catalyst if your CS isn't up to snuff; you can't afford to miss.
So if you want to avoid my mistakes, it's really simple: double in Harness Power and overtrain your Sorcerer Spell Circle up to +20. It's really hard to play catch-up when you're already attached to your skill set, but easy if you train that way from jump.
~ Heathyr
Another thing that's changed is Harness Power. It used to be that singling in HP was fine. Now you're going to be hurting for mana all the time if you're not doubled. I'm constantly having power problems, and there's really no way of compensating for it (especially as a Volnie).
On the subject of Societies, I think Sunfist is probably best all-around for boosting mana, but the other one's fine if you don't mind spirit penalties. Sunfist also makes use of those stamina points you probably won't use for anything else.
Spell aim used to be considered a waste, but now it's mandatory. There's no reason not to double-train in SA, and you'll be missing a lot of great perks without it. And waving wizard wands will no longer get you laughed out of the Sorcerer Guild. Times have changed.
Definitely make a fast-track to 425. You're going to need it. Keep training in MnE for more AS, CS and DS. I went for Wall of Force, which I really needed at the time (I had a brawling build, no shield)...but now that I switched to runestaff, it's hardly ever used except in invasions. At lower levels you can't afford the mana to cast it anyway, so might as well stop at 120 and get your other spells done.
I still miss my brawling. I loved being able to channel MD empty-handed (it really does make a difference). I also liked being able to switch to Voln-fu (R.I.P.) against undead to save mana. UAC is not practical, however, with only 1x in brawling--and especially wearing airwall, which you really, really need with a brawling build. So...I've given it up as nonviable. It's not impossible, but it's not all that much fun anymore, and you miss out on a LOT of other skills in the meantime.
Having said all that, I'm still a "non-optimal" build, but I also enjoy the perks of being somewhat well-rounded. I have about .5x First Aid, Survival, and Trading. Fully 1x perception for life (another old-school hangover). I have 50 ranks each of Elemental Mana Control and Spiritual Mana Control, which is enough to use MANA SPELLUP once a day, and use multicast x4. Also have 30 ranks of Summoning Lore for locating in adjacent realms, and using the bolt version of web, among other things. I have about 1.5x Arcane Symbols for scroll infusing, though I'd like to get that to 2x. I have close to 1x demonology and 25 ranks necromancy (I should've left it at 21).
My tertiary skills are a bit excessive for a non-capped sorcerer. But they're all skills I use and appreciate on a daily basis, and they're within reasonable limits. It just depends on how much power you're willing to sacrifice.
I have major mana issues when hunting, even bringing a demon along, using sacrifice, Symbol of Mana, etc. It's just not enough. This is complicated by a lagging CS. Forget Dark Catalyst if your CS isn't up to snuff; you can't afford to miss.
So if you want to avoid my mistakes, it's really simple: double in Harness Power and overtrain your Sorcerer Spell Circle up to +20. It's really hard to play catch-up when you're already attached to your skill set, but easy if you train that way from jump.
~ Heathyr
>I have four sorcerers from low-mid 30s to cap. Not a single one has leveled with overtrained sorcerer ranks, including the half-krolvin.
>I like to think a little bit of tactics and creative use of the spells we have can be more rewarding than sinking a ton of TPs into massively over-training in the Sorcerer spell circle to derive a slightly higher CS.
Totally agreed here. Not until level 85 did I EVER get my first over-trained rank in Sorcerer spells, and even now, I'm only 1.05x, which is only giving me an extra 4 CS.
That said, not 1xing is a pretty big mistake.
>I like to think a little bit of tactics and creative use of the spells we have can be more rewarding than sinking a ton of TPs into massively over-training in the Sorcerer spell circle to derive a slightly higher CS.
Totally agreed here. Not until level 85 did I EVER get my first over-trained rank in Sorcerer spells, and even now, I'm only 1.05x, which is only giving me an extra 4 CS.
That said, not 1xing is a pretty big mistake.
<<<I have four sorcerers from low-mid 30s to cap. Not a single one has leveled with overtrained sorcerer ranks, including the half-krolvin.>>>
Good to know. I was thinking over-training was the new standard, just going by advice I'd heard from others. I'm glad 1x is still considered "normal".
~ Heathyr
Good to know. I was thinking over-training was the new standard, just going by advice I'd heard from others. I'm glad 1x is still considered "normal".
~ Heathyr
I didn't go over 2x in spells until cap.
I also liked to dabble in secondary skills rather than focus on maxing CS. I have ranks in CMANs, maxed PT, survival training, perception, Multi-opponent combat (MOC), lots of climbing and swimming (lets face it, it really sucks when you fail a climb or swim), and even a sizable chunk of trading skill.
however, I would not try to branch out of standard training paths until level 25 or so. I dont think I started getting MOC until then.
dont forget about societies when making training choices.
~Moredin
I also liked to dabble in secondary skills rather than focus on maxing CS. I have ranks in CMANs, maxed PT, survival training, perception, Multi-opponent combat (MOC), lots of climbing and swimming (lets face it, it really sucks when you fail a climb or swim), and even a sizable chunk of trading skill.
however, I would not try to branch out of standard training paths until level 25 or so. I dont think I started getting MOC until then.
dont forget about societies when making training choices.
~Moredin
With Malisai i went 2.5x spells, however that was mostly to get extra MnE and MnS spell ranks. I just recently retrained to overtrain my spells and get close to 3x. Basically i felt i was required to do so. Since Mal hunts the rift and is outgrowing 3, 5 is the next step. Even counting +20 sorcerer spells over level, and +13 CS from Voln Mal was simply not able to hunt there, it just was not possible. Retrained and with Voln Mal can hunt 5 now. Its easier to hunt 3, but he can hunt 5 on his own and (more importantly) hunt 5 with friends.
however until you get to a place like that its not required. Now i will say +20 sorcerer ranks above level is very very nice. Basically it gets rid of not being able to ward like level creatures most of the time(seems to me for most mobs 1x training gets you about a 10% or so chance to fail to ward). It is also useful because it allows you to hit the 140 threshold (blow a limb off) for 708 easier and give a couple extra seconds with 706.
2x SA was more than valuable while leveling. And ill tell you the one reason that justifies 2x in SA and if that was the only thing i could do with SA that would be good enough. Focused 708. weapon swingers cant swing a weapon, casters cannot cast (few exceptions due to the spell being considered an ability not a spell) when the right arm is removed. Ohh look its a swarm, 709 them down, remove all their right arms, kill with 702 at your leisure, no need to worry about FoF.
For HP my opinion is that 1x is enough all the way to cap, the only exception is if you are imbeding or infusing. At least with 1x HP Mal has had zero mana issues. remember above? remove a limb then use 702, saves mana in the long run.
For armor most folks will be fine in fulls or doubles. some other sorcerers get into rigid leather and swear by it. I dont have access to anything that reduces or removes spell failure and i cannot stand spell failure so im in fulls. That being said there have been situations where if i was in better armor i would have survived.
PF getting to 1x is nice, but it can be done as a post cap goal. Mal got to 24 ranks by 24, then did not pick up another rank until something like 75, and was 1x by 88 i think.
1x perception, All my characters have this
Mana controls - 1x elemental and spiritual if you can. if you dont want to get 24 of each just so you can send/receive.
Sorcerer lore - there are a bunch of ways to do this. I picked demonology since the RP for Mal involved demons for a long while (if you want ask him about his version of 712)
AS/MIU - these skills are cheap, there is no reason you cannot work 1x of each in your plan. Its very helpful. Find a ranger, ask them to make you wands/rods. Imbed 702/705...etc in them. Find a wizard buddy have them imbed some spells in them for you. Infuse scrolls you find.
Climb/swim - find out where you want to hunt and where you want to go, get that much.
Player of Malisai
however until you get to a place like that its not required. Now i will say +20 sorcerer ranks above level is very very nice. Basically it gets rid of not being able to ward like level creatures most of the time(seems to me for most mobs 1x training gets you about a 10% or so chance to fail to ward). It is also useful because it allows you to hit the 140 threshold (blow a limb off) for 708 easier and give a couple extra seconds with 706.
2x SA was more than valuable while leveling. And ill tell you the one reason that justifies 2x in SA and if that was the only thing i could do with SA that would be good enough. Focused 708. weapon swingers cant swing a weapon, casters cannot cast (few exceptions due to the spell being considered an ability not a spell) when the right arm is removed. Ohh look its a swarm, 709 them down, remove all their right arms, kill with 702 at your leisure, no need to worry about FoF.
For HP my opinion is that 1x is enough all the way to cap, the only exception is if you are imbeding or infusing. At least with 1x HP Mal has had zero mana issues. remember above? remove a limb then use 702, saves mana in the long run.
For armor most folks will be fine in fulls or doubles. some other sorcerers get into rigid leather and swear by it. I dont have access to anything that reduces or removes spell failure and i cannot stand spell failure so im in fulls. That being said there have been situations where if i was in better armor i would have survived.
PF getting to 1x is nice, but it can be done as a post cap goal. Mal got to 24 ranks by 24, then did not pick up another rank until something like 75, and was 1x by 88 i think.
1x perception, All my characters have this
Mana controls - 1x elemental and spiritual if you can. if you dont want to get 24 of each just so you can send/receive.
Sorcerer lore - there are a bunch of ways to do this. I picked demonology since the RP for Mal involved demons for a long while (if you want ask him about his version of 712)
AS/MIU - these skills are cheap, there is no reason you cannot work 1x of each in your plan. Its very helpful. Find a ranger, ask them to make you wands/rods. Imbed 702/705...etc in them. Find a wizard buddy have them imbed some spells in them for you. Infuse scrolls you find.
Climb/swim - find out where you want to hunt and where you want to go, get that much.
Player of Malisai
<I like to think a little bit of tactics and creative use of the spells we have can be more rewarding than sinking a ton of TPs into massively over-training in the Sorcerer spell circle to derive a slightly higher CS.>
This is how I managed to survive the Keep in RR... that is until I got upset at a necromancer that wouldn't stay away and went through half my mana killing it. Even at a couple levels above them, I either had to pray the first shot of 720 took them out or spend 40+ mana per necromancer with 715, 719, and usually at least one cast of 705 and/or 711 to put them down. It was easy enough to fry when I could just avoid the necromancers for the most part, but now it's I pretty much have to hunt necromancers or go over to the Citadel where I have similar mana/CS problems (leaving RR isn't an option for me, I've tried and might as well just stop playing my sorcerer if that's my only option for him... though I might join Mali in the rift once he's old enough).
It would be fine that I miss x% due to fumbles or low CS if I could kill most things with 1 or 2 casts of a spell or if our spells are as they are now but I was guaranteed to hit every time, but when my spells miss on a d100 of 30 or less and I need four hits with a spell that costs at least 11 mana... I'm just not going to fry before I'm so weighted down I can't move. So, it becomes time to put the minor spell circles on hold and put all my spell ranks into the 700s (I'm still only 2x i spells) to close the gap as much as possible.
Starchitin
A severed gnomish hand crawls in on its fingertips and makes a rude gesture before quickly decaying and rotting into dust. A gust of wind quickly scatters the dust.
This is how I managed to survive the Keep in RR... that is until I got upset at a necromancer that wouldn't stay away and went through half my mana killing it. Even at a couple levels above them, I either had to pray the first shot of 720 took them out or spend 40+ mana per necromancer with 715, 719, and usually at least one cast of 705 and/or 711 to put them down. It was easy enough to fry when I could just avoid the necromancers for the most part, but now it's I pretty much have to hunt necromancers or go over to the Citadel where I have similar mana/CS problems (leaving RR isn't an option for me, I've tried and might as well just stop playing my sorcerer if that's my only option for him... though I might join Mali in the rift once he's old enough).
It would be fine that I miss x% due to fumbles or low CS if I could kill most things with 1 or 2 casts of a spell or if our spells are as they are now but I was guaranteed to hit every time, but when my spells miss on a d100 of 30 or less and I need four hits with a spell that costs at least 11 mana... I'm just not going to fry before I'm so weighted down I can't move. So, it becomes time to put the minor spell circles on hold and put all my spell ranks into the 700s (I'm still only 2x i spells) to close the gap as much as possible.
Starchitin
A severed gnomish hand crawls in on its fingertips and makes a rude gesture before quickly decaying and rotting into dust. A gust of wind quickly scatters the dust.
