I finished off a major project about 3-4 weeks ago and since I heard 925 update was RSN I didn't start another one.

I'm itching to know if I should start another 5x or 6x project or hold off for the updated release.

-Drumpel

>Heh. Clever. ;)

A wizard's got to try!

Anyway...I'm cheap (actually, generally I just don't really have any silvers in game) and I need to move my paladin out of my 6x brig (it gets passed around between characters that need it) and want to take some 4x chain mail to 5x. I just, however, don't want to do such a task if it means something will get mucked up when the new 925 version comes out or I'm stuck in the middle of a project that I have to complete before using the new enchant system or I have to untemper an item I already sunk some time into....unless I know there's going to be enough time to hammer out a 5x enchant.

I'm just looking for some kind of time line of: Yes, it will be out before you can do a 5x enchant or No, it won't be out by then so start your 5x project. A 5x enchant, each pour takes 4-6 days (depending on your luck)....20 to 30 days (most likely closer to 25 days) for a 5x project.

So, can I complete one before 925 is updated or not?

-Drumpel

>Sorry, I can't answer that one directly. But I can say that I would fully expect the roll-out of any changes to take into account major projects. I'd say the odds of being able to proceed on a major project would be better than 70%.

I'm curious about this too, as I have a major project I'm working on that probably has a couple months left on it. I seriously doubt the new 925 is going to mess up existing projects, but an official word on it would still be a big help.

I also heard that casting 925 raw at your runestaff will make your next Immolate function as pre-nerf.

The previous sentence might be made up.

~ Methais

>Sorry. The ability to continue a major project in progress needs to be 100% with the new 925 roll out.

Yes, this is obvious.

>Sorry. The ability to continue a major project in progress needs to be 100% with the new 925 roll out.

Yes, this is obvious.

---

Yes it is, and will be.

While I cannot tell when it will be released, except RSN. ;p

Do not fear about your current projects in progress as that will not be effected in any way by the changes.

I am just as excited to release this spell update as the players are, and I hope that everybody will be thrilled with the changes. <crosses fingers>

~Contemplar~

Thanks for the confirmation and update, Contemplar.

>I hope that everybody will be thrilled with the changes. <crosses fingers>

If it's like 735 for sorcerers, we will be thrilled. <crosses fingers>

Drumpel

So yeah....

I know...I know....RSN

I see a couple of items at EG that I would like to pick up if these items could be enchanted under the new/updated enchanting system. Currently, the items are not enchantable with how things work now, but based on what possible changes are happening, they might be.

I'd hate to buy these items and find out I wouldn't be able to enchant them OR I'd hate to not buy them and find out I could have enchanted them and then EG is over and I can't get them anymore.

So....will enchant be out before EG is done?

It should be out soon, but we can't really get more specific than that. If there are items at Ebon Gate that you're considering, I would definitely buy them, as the update will be out in the near future. Perhaps not before Ebon Gate ends, but soon. You also should not worry about starting or any existing projects when it goes live. It will not affect those (in the sense of losing any progress).

I had thought I had posted the full details of the update to Enchant Item (925), but it seems like there is still a lot of confusion (and I know we've made some changes since the original announcement, like on failures). So to list some of the specifics:

* When you CAST 925 at an item, it will give you a reading to tell you how likely you are to succeed on the final (i.e. the most difficult) cast. It will not actually try to enchant the item unless you CHANNEL, and during which, it will also give you more information regarding how lucky (or unlucky) you were with the attempt. This mimics the setup of Ensorcell (735).
* Tempered items will no longer shatter in combat, but they still cannot be used.
* Catastrophic and cursed item failure are being removed. It will no longer be possible to destroy or curse an item.
* The only possible failures are (ordered worst to best):
1.) Reset: the project is reset and you lose all progress toward it. You can immediately restart the project. This is the worst possible outcome.
2.) Lock: the project is locked and you cannot progress on it any further. It will not expire. A merchant can unlock it or you can untemper it to immediately remove all progress on it and the lock.
3.) Damage (toward progress, not the actual item): your progress is damaged and the current step of the enchant process is lowered (i.e. if you were on step 3 of a 5x enchant, it could be lowered to step 2 and you would have to wait for it to temper again).
4.) Delay: the temper time is reset, so you must wait again until it's ready again.
5.) Minor: no actual penalty, simply fails. You can immediately retry.
* Trainining in Elemental Lore, Water decreases the amount of time it takes to temper items. As a wizard reflects upon their experience (i.e. is online and gaining experience), they are able to store trace amounts of mana from each pulse, which they then infuse into their tempering potions to make them more effective. There is a weekly and maximum cap, which a wizard can SENSE.
* Training in the other Elemental Lores will allow a wizard to enchant items with elemental flares, but it requires a special pre-temper potion and 100 ranks of the appropriate lore (i.e. 100 EL:F ranks to enchant fire flaring weapons, etc). The mana points gained from the EL:W benefit may also be used to substitute up to 50 lore ranks (so a wizard who trains 50 ranks in each elemental lore can use mana points to also enchant any elemental flaring item). Elemental flares include heat, cold, water, air, vacuum, electricity, impact, acid, and steam.

GameMaster Estild

>> 2.) Lock: the project is locked and you cannot progress on it any further. It will not expire. A merchant can unlock it or you can untemper it to immediately remove all progress on it and the lock.

Currently the untemper potions can take some time (days) to take effect, depending on the project. Is the time being reviewed / shortened to immediately overall or just in this special case? Or am I being too literal in my interpretation of immediately?

-- Robert

A powerful whirlpool is suddenly overtaken by a windy vortex!

>Currently the untemper potions can take some time (days) to take effect, depending on the project. Is the time being reviewed / shortened to immediately overall or just in this special case? Or am I being too literal in my interpretation of immediately?

---

You are being a tad too literal. ;-)

The untemper time will still be in place, although I think you are mistaken on the amount of time it usually takes. Currently I think it might take about 1-2 hours to untemper a 4-5x project. It should not be in days.

The immediately in that context is meant that you can remove the locked status of the project (and all of your current progress) by using an untemper potion, or wait for a merchant service to unlock the project (without losing any progress).

~Contemplar~

>wait for a merchant service to unlock the project (without losing any progress).

I'm sorry, but this sounds absurd. Enchanting is already exponentially more time consuming than ensorcell and weaker in every way. By the time one actually finds a merchant service to accomplish this task, one could likely already have re-done the entire project.

It's unfortunately that this was largely a missed opportunity to bring Enchant Item in line with Ensorcell's much superior setup. And everything can be ensorcelled, without needing 100 ranks of one particular lore type to work on that particular flare, plus a pre-temper potion.

>2.) Lock: the project is locked and you cannot progress on it any further. It will not expire. A merchant can unlock it or you can untemper it to immediately remove all progress on it and the lock.

I'd consider this a worse outcome than #1: Reset, since you have to wait for it to untemper before starting to temper all over again.

This just seems like a very tedious task - trying to possibly track down a merchant the "unlock" a locked project. I'd rather not have to do something like that and just dump this as a possible failure. Temper times are irritating enough, seeing as they're not going away with the update. Why would I want to be stuck with a locked item that I can't do anything with and sit on it while I hope to find a merchant to "unlock" it? That's just irritatingly painful. Yes, you can untemper it, but that's no different than the outcome from #1; you're just starting over from the beginning.

>Trainining in Elemental Lore, Water decreases the amount of time it takes to temper items.

It's disappointing that we're still sticking to some niche lore for this purpose. 735 is both far less time consuming and is a byproduct of actual hunting, with zero actual impact to the time required for the project on failures beyond a minimal loss of energy. 735 also allows the gain of necrotic energy with zero lore whatsoever.

These aren't the same spell, they don't offer the same outcome so I wouldn't expect them to be exactly the same. However, I'll reserve my opinion on this function of the spell until it's officially released....in the end I may agree with your view or have a different opinion of it.

>* When you CAST 925 at an item, it will give you a reading to tell you how likely you are to succeed on the final (i.e. the most difficult) cast. It will not actually try to enchant the item unless you CHANNEL, and during which, it will also give you more information regarding how lucky (or unlucky) you were with the attempt. This mimics the setup of Ensorcell (735)

This is nice. I've had horrible luck with finishing a 3x (maybe it was 4x) project not to long ago - basic failure on the final cast and I had to re-temper. It would be nice to have an idea of what are chances are, even if we know we can do a simple 4x project.

>* Tempered items will no longer shatter in combat, but they still cannot be used.

Not sure how I feel about this. Good they won't shatter - only happened to me once and what a shock it was! I think I can draw a pretty good conclusion about how the new enchanting system will work.....since it seems we're still using the temper times.

>* Catastrophic and cursed item failure are being removed. It will no longer be possible to destroy or curse an item.

Yeah! Only blew up one item and cursed 2 in my years of enchanting (maybe a hundred projects or so - it's probably a very low number compared to what other wizards have done).

>* Trainining in Elemental Lore, Water decreases the amount of time it takes to temper items. As a wizard reflects upon their experience (i.e. is online and gaining experience), they are able to store trace amounts of mana from each pulse, which they then infuse into their tempering potions to make them more effective. There is a weekly and maximum cap, which a wizard can SENSE.

I think I have a pretty good idea as how the updated spell will function when it comes to infusing mana into temper potions, pours and so on....but I'll keep it to myself just in case I'm way wrong.

I'm hoping the temper times have been reduced to a reasonable level. Doing a 7x project right now is ridiculously long...usually it's 8-10 days per step...so you're looking at 2 months minimum to do a 7x cast. That's 2 months you're out from using the item. Seeing as how items still cannot be used (at least they won't shatter now), hopefully 2 months isn't the norm and it doesn't require a stupid amount of EL:W to make a significant impact on the temper time reduction.

>* Training in the other Elemental Lores will allow a wizard to enchant items with elemental flares, but it requires a special pre-temper potion and 100 ranks of the appropriate lore (i.e. 100 EL:F ranks to enchant fire flaring weapons, etc). The mana points gained from the EL:W benefit may also be used to substitute up to 50 lore ranks (so a wizard who trains 50 ranks in each elemental lore can use mana points to also enchant any elemental flaring item). Elemental flares include heat, cold, water, air, vacuum, electricity, impact, acid, and steam.

"Special pre-temper" potion - please don't make this be something wonky thing tied to Alchemy. Lock Mastery has irritated me enough with the gawd awful number of reps to get a couple of points and the handful of ranks I did earn in Alchemy with my wizard....well, Lock Mastery is a godsend in comparison. I don't want to have to fork out thousands of silvers for those that do have alchemy mastered and they make the potions to sell. I also don't want to see them only available at some merchant event. If they cost a lot more silver from the guild shop over normal temper potions, I'm okay with that. I'll fork over my silver to the guild shop.

Questions
What is the max enchant level we can do? And does it apply to all items? (can you enchant a flaring weapon to the same level as a non-flaring)
Does enchanting a flaring item incur a difficulty penalty over a normal item? (is it harder to enchant flaring items over normal items)
Is there any possibility of enchanting weighted/padded items? (I'm guessing no, but I wanted to ask)
Ability to enchant armor/shields that have elemental flares as well? (I'm guessing yes, but just want to be sure)
Are we still going to be required to have a familiar present when we attempt a cast? (To me, this has always been a stupid idea, but seeing as how it is beneficial to making casts I have to call up a familiar real quick....)

Those are the only questions that quickly popped into my head. If I have anymore, I'll post them or possibly have them answered once the spell is finalized and released for us to see.

Thanks for all the extra info here.

-Drumpel

It does sound like the updated spell will be a lot better than the current 925. I doubt it will be on par with 735, though. If the base temper time (without lore) stays as it is, it ought to be worth more experience to enchant something -- as much as you get for the final pour, currently, for every intermediate pour. Reducing the temper time on the highest enchants also seems reasonable, but without the need to hunt to store up energy, enchanters will remain mostly locker/mule characters.

>If I am working on a major project I can't see letting my one major project per account time sit idle while waiting months? for a merchant to allow me to continue. I would just take the hit and reset the project.

I think most players would agree with this. Reading between the lines, the implication of "lock" is that the 1 major project limit is going to be raised so that it's feasible to locker a project for awhile. I don't think this is the case, but that WOULD change things.

>>Ironically, anyone doing this is likely a utility enchanting/spell bot, as this cripples a character offensively and defensively otherwise, resulting in an all around sub-optimal build.

I'll buy into the 'sub-optimal' perhaps, if only contrasting AS, and ignoring the enchanting benefit (for which it is now 'optimal').

But 'cripple'? The relevant lore AS boosts kick in around 50 in most cases, don't they? It might be a difference of a few AS (perhaps up to 15? - mobile right now, so can't easily check), but no - not 'crippled'.

Doug

>> I might have misread - mobile right now - but I am pretty sure it was 'merchant unlock OR de-temper step and start step again'.

Untempering potions presently take you back to the start of the project, not the beginning of the current step.

>> I also believe I saw a Contemplar (?) note about how long de-temper might should oughta take.

Yes, if you choose to reset your project to the beginning it sounds like this will take a few hours with the potion... a slightly worse option than simply having the project reset on it's own since you additionally need a potion and a couple hours of time to wait vs...

>> Are we perhaps slightly mis-stating the 'months in the locker' case based on this? Unclear to me, hence the question.

...the option of getting a merchant to unlock your project which would take...(weeks? months? longer?) The point being... who is going to choose to wait for a merchant under these circumstances (unless they are looking to adjust the 1 major project per account limit along with this)?

-- Robert

A powerful whirlpool is suddenly overtaken by a windy vortex!

I also agree that it would be so much better if tempering times could be reduced for all wizards by being active and hunting. This would give normal everyday attack based wizards a chance to achieve a weekly goal through hunting which makes sense for ALL wizards, even if water lore in some way played a further beneficial role for enchant bots. As it stands, it's a nice idea, that I'll assume nearly every actual hunting wizard is going to shrug at. Air, Fire, and even Earth have become too important to combat based wizards to even consider a bunch of water lore.

And honestly, for what?

A mundane 7x enchant that might take you a month less then the already horrible amount of time it takes to make it? Lets face it, a 7x enchant is no longer what it use to be. With the amount of high end gear that's being produced through other venues, 7x is just what you bring to a merchant hoping to make it better.

I barely even remember to enchant anymore unless someone asks me to, and even that has dried up for some time. I certainly don't need anymore 7x gear, and making 7-10m every 6 months by making and selling items just doesn't seem that lucrative anymore. That really padded the coffers even 5 years ago, but these days, people are making that kind of coin weekly, if not daily.

This update really seems to miss the mark of making 925 a current spell. We don't even need to bring up how awesome 735 is to see that besides a few quality of life adjustments, enchant is really no better. If everything goes to plan, as it usually does, I wouldn't even notice a change to enchanting with these changes. Hey it worked, Hey it still worked! As for enchanting flaring weapons or the temper times, both of those will go unfulfilled for me, because I'll never have the lores to do it. I know that's my own personal choice, but I'll bet my hat, it's going to be the personal choice of most active hunting wizards.

This was the chance to allow us to enchant to 10x again without the use of a super rare temper potion. Even if the temper time between 7x-10x was 2 years, and it used a special system that required you to be active and hunting to discourage pocket wizards flooding the market, I'd be starting mine the second the updates were released. With the amount of other ways people can now acquire enchants, would this really even matter in the long run? You can already use premie points and any number of special events to either acquire instant enchants or the special potions to do it yourself. In the 2 and a half years it would take to bring an item from 4x-10x, anyone who actually wanted a 10x piece would have already bought it or made it with other methods.

I know that the game isn't balanced around way post cap players, but it's about time to start making some changes, that can give post cap players something to look forward to. Working SLOWLY toward some goal is better than not working toward any goal at all. At this point, you could tell me it would take 10 years to make a 10x project, and I'd get to work tomorrow.







Isle Snack Muncher

>> I guess I'm one of the few who also purposely failed enchants to even the bonus (from say, +22 down to +10 and back up again, I like 5s!), so I guess there is no longer a way to make certain materials a nice even enchant.

I was hoping for an improvement to 925 to allow for partial enchants. That would also have been awesome.

-- Robert

A powerful whirlpool is suddenly overtaken by a windy vortex!

>>results in a wizard character that is not fun to play and likely a build primarily used by enchant bots.

Wait. . . this is the response to my suggesting 'crippled' was a bit overstated?

Not fun to play =/= crippled.

Doug

Err . . . amplify this point a bit? etc., etc.

>>* Trainining in Elemental Lore, Water decreases the amount of time it takes to temper items. As a wizard reflects upon their experience (i.e. is online and gaining experience), they are able to store trace amounts of mana from each pulse, which they then infuse into their tempering potions to make them more effective. There is a weekly and maximum cap, which a wizard can SENSE.

Doug

>* The only possible failures are...

>I also think #2 is worse than #1, for reasons others have brought up. Projects should be able to be unlocked via some method that doesn't require direct GM interaction...and chance.


My first thought when reading the changes was that #2 was worse than #1.
IF a merchant is around and IF he offers this service and IF you get on the list...then you can pay to make #2 not hurt all that much.
Otherwise, #2 is the same as #1 except you have to pay for a potion. So it's worse.

As someone who doesn't bother with alchemy, I would think this would be a good opportunity to reward those that do.
Make an alchemy potion that unlocks the enchanting project at it's current state of progress, but have this potion tune to the alchemist when it is made (i.e. a wizard needs to craft his own potion to unlock his own project).

If an alchemist gets failure #2, he pours his potion on the project and then gives it another channel of 925.
If a non-alchemist gets failure #2, he pours a store-bought potion on the project and then re-tempers and waits to try the first step of the project again.