>More than 15,000 people were vying for a chance to enter a grueling run???
E

Look at the stats for larger marathons. Boston, NY, etc. If 15k surprises you, those will blow your mind.

-farmer
>"Mine lights my character on fire and makes her all glowy." -Raelee

Name a system that could be more "fair" in terms of allowing people of all time zones an attempt to enter, not being bias against those that cannot afford price gated tickets, not being bias towards people who cannot make time for multiple attempts to purchase a ticket, and not dependent on your connection speed or knowing the exact method/trick to maximize your chances at entry than a lottery.

You'd be hard pressed to do so.

>It's either random or it's not.

Unfortunately, when dealing with computer programming, there is no true 'random'. You can program something close, but it will never be truly random. Look at the raffle system, we're told it's random, yet every time someone wins something that's won before people claim loudly it must have been rigged.

Favoritism is something that can be difficult to prove, and it's something that everyone falls back on when they feel jealous. A lottery system would do nothing more than leave people claiming they were left out because someone hated them. People claim that all the time now when there's a raffle... or even when spinners are used.

Favoritism is the exact reason GMs don't release items through Storylines, because of course the people who would deserve it would be both highly visible and active and someone else would feel they deserved it more.

True or not has nothing to do with what the player base thinks... perception being everything, if the player base perceives favoritism and the GMs do nothing about it, they're in just a bad a mess as if there IS favoritism. Look at the PC or spend time on Lnet after a big raffle goes, the crying is absolutely ridiculous.

Personally, while I feel raffles are fine for items in game, if I'm going to spend my money I'd rather have to DO something to get it than hope random chance drops it in my lap. If I lose fine, if I don't, then I'm happy. No matter how they do it, someone's going to get left out, be upset about it, and come up with a way they think they would have gotten what they want.

"Fair" is a word I hate personally. Life isn't fair, some aspects of life can be modified to APPEAR fair, but really what most people mean when they said 'fair' is that they didn't get what they wanted.

Paying attention to people's cries of favoritism doesn't imply guilt, it implies a company cares what their customer base wants, and when you care being falsely accused hurts no matter how innocent you might be.

>>If it's not true, any favoritism claim should not be an issue. How could anyone reasonably claim favoritism with a random lottery? It's either random or it's not. If it is, then people can cry "favoritism" 24/7 and it shouldn't phase you one bit. Kowtowing to people's accusations, baseless or not, tends to imply guilt.

>>You're not going to get a more fair system than a random lottery. And seriously, I don't know how you can stand behind the statement, "being fair is not the proper way to go," with any conviction. I would argue that being fair is the only way to go. If you choose to listen to the loudest squawkers and go with the method they benefit most from, you are, indeed, guilty of favoritism. In the end, "fair" is the only winning strategy.

It has nothing to do with guilt. Proving favoritism is as hard as disproving favoritism. It becomes far too slippery of a slope for GMs, between players and staff, to attempt it on a regular basis. The accusations make GMs not want to bother and it completely sunders morale.

The lottery system is a nice concept, but I don't think it would be a very fair way to handle it. Too many loopholes. It would require a new system in place. It would likely need a new billing system implemented. It would require complete and utter confidence by players to disprove favoritism. It would need more GMs on hand.

But no, fair is not what the most vocal want. Capitalism is what the most vocal want.

---

~Wyrom, SGM
Quests
Platinum
Promotions

>None of this addresses premium. Which, rightly so, is a big concern for people.-farmer

That is simple, have all, or the majority of tickets eligible to only premium accounts in the raffle.

>All or a majority is why it isn't simple. Look at the whole RtCF folder. -farmer

The choice to continue on with this idea of giving Basic accounts a shot at tickets is going to be a factor in ANY method moving forward, therefore it isn't a specific complaint that can be leveled against the idea of a raffle. Either option can easily be implemented in a raffle system.

>Yeah, we've crossed into lalaland now. That's a crazy idea, and you know it! Heh.

I agree that it's crazy, but I wasn't the one to start us marching in this direction. I'm just suggesting to keep slogging onwards to something better instead of turning around.

Really though, whatever method is put into place going forward needs to be documented and followed. If the ongoing system is to allow premium members a shot at advance tickets then a set timeframe for that window needs to be in place for all ticket sales, or if it is just to allow a shot at the first half then that needs to be stated in all communication(i.e. the premium subscriber benefits page) as this does affect those customers.

The true problem with a lottery (or it's close cousin, the raffle) is that in some states it is illegal, while in other states in can have a bad effect on status, taxes, and so on. IN game, these rules don't necessarily apply, given the 'currency' isn't recognized -- although I'm not current if any precedents have been set.

But they have been set for exchange of goods and services in 'the real world', and despite the fairness it may simply not be possible.

Oftentimes we believe that someone's just trying to make things harder - I find that's not often the case. I find that some things simply aren't feasible, other things don't make sense, still others are nice concepts but carry too much risk, and then there's the few things that just might have a chance with the resources we have.

Still -- I'd simply suggest putting up 25 tickets at 500.00 (or some other agreeably insane price ;), and let them sell.

Doug

>>But no, fair is not what the most vocal want. Capitalism is what the most vocal want.<<

Capitalism would have been charging $250 a ticket. They would have all sold, but more slowly, and would have gone to the players that value them most. When demand outstrips price, people pay with queuing, which is something everyone who camps or hunts for a merchant is used to.

---

I find $75 near the top end of what I am willing to spend for a Gemstone event. Especially considering that my wife and I tend to participate in these jointly (so we are looking at $150 now). It's possibly true that a large number of folks would be willing to shell out $250 for a ticket but at that point why not just post items and services for sale in a US $ auction house and separate them from any event entirely? That way those that enjoy events as an experience can participate in those and folks just looking to buy high end items and services for cash can do so.

While I enjoy having the opportunity to win something really neat at an event, I don't need a guarantee that I will walk away with something. It's exciting and fun to participate with a chance to win. As a future suggestion for events such as these set the admission at a reasonable price, list the items and services that will be offered well in advance, and open the doors to anyone that wants to attend (yes, this means that some folks won't walk away with an uber item/service). This approach would allow for anyone that wants to participate to do so and would eliminate the grief around buying a ticket. Also, if you still maintain the 1 run per account it would allow people to actually choose which event date they could/wanted to attend instead of just dealing with the one where their click happened to be fast enough.

-- Robert

>>I forget, what are the "lite" tickets good for? Are they good for minor services? I'd definitely hop on that train, if so.

Sadly not. The Lite event simply offers the chance to wander the grounds, do some shopping and attempt the quest although, if I'm understanding it correctly, vouchers found for minor services will be honoured. Don't quote me on that last part though, it may have been a blonde moment.

>>You slay me woman! ~ Wyrom

~*~ She conquers, who endures ~*~

Lite runs aren't going on sale just yet. I need to make adjustments since the idea manifested only a few days ago, and we've been planning this even for months now, so it will require a little bit of time to get our ducks in a row.

Rohese is correct. It's just to experience the grounds, shop, and participate in the quest. Once things die down in the RtCF topic, I will post more about the quest and the souvenir.

The vouchers can be redeemed at the Lite Entry event. Will it be worth the cost of admission? That's up to you. It will still be limited, because of the quest.

---

~Wyrom, SGM
Quests
Platinum
Promotions

I'd like to reiterate that captchas are next to impossible for individuals with certain visual impairments to read.

While this is a text based game there are visual impairments that don't effect reading straight text.

Adding a CAPTCHA would also add an extra hindering step for those individuals.

You could add in an audio CAPTCHA, but what would then be the point of even trying?

Adding CAPTCHAs would likely only marginally slow down anyone using a macro or script. But it would stop someone like me dead in my tracks. Period. I read CAPTCHAs correctly on the first attempt about 10% of the time. Change the CAPTCHA after each attempt and I'm having to ask someone to read it for me.

An attempt to disable a minority player base which has questionable scruples (those who allegedly use bots) at the expense of another (possibly) minority player base - a group that behaves ethically despite personal hindrances - makes "fair" a moot point.

Second on Farmer's LOL

>None of those are loopholes, just minor obstacles. And really, a new billing system and more GM's? That seems overstated. Especially if the signups and lotter were done on the Simutronics website.
CAPPER


Thank you for the hearty laugh while I drank my coffee.



-farmer
>"Mine lights my character on fire and makes her all glowy." -Raelee