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Ethereal Censer is now available to clerics. When cast, it will perform a maneuver attack against one target, then provide a 30 second mana reduction enhancement to the caster. The strength of the attack is determined by Cleric spell ranks, Spell Aiming, and Spiritual Lore, Religion. While the mana reduction enhancement is active, the cleric will gain 20 mana over the duration of the effect. The spell has a 30 second cooldown, but has a small chance to end early every 2 seconds with Spiritual Lore, Religion increasing the odds.
The base mana reduction benefit is 20% and increases once a cleric has more than 200 skill in Spirit Mana Control (up to 25% at 2x SMC and 30% at 3x SMC, using the formula of ((SMC skill - 200) / 20)). In addition, there is a spell rotation bonus for casting different spells. Everytime the cleric casts a different spell than the previous few spells, the bonus is +5%, up to +25% after 5 spells. If at anytime the cleric recasts any of spell they had already cast since starting the rotation, the bonus resets to 0%.
GameMaster Estild
A few notes:
The mana reduction does not benefit spells level 20 or higher.
The mana reduction benefit does keep track of partial savings. Meaning, if you cast 302 and it cost 2 mana, it will keep track that you should have saved 0.4 mana and once you combine it with a future savings to reach more than 1.0, it will grant that amount of reduction.
GameMaster Estild
The mana reduction does not benefit spells level 20 or higher.
The mana reduction benefit does keep track of partial savings. Meaning, if you cast 302 and it cost 2 mana, it will keep track that you should have saved 0.4 mana and once you combine it with a future savings to reach more than 1.0, it will grant that amount of reduction.
GameMaster Estild
Any way we can get 320 on the test server, or an ETA for when it might be? Something seems wonky over there. Its not showing me room titles or descriptions at all and I've checked my flags, but it says 320 can't be prepared. I wanted to check it out with vs without spell aiming. That's going to make it VERY difficult for me to decide on more spells/higher CS or bite the bullet and drop spell ranks and some other things to train in spell aim now!
Looks like it could be useful, though there are a couple points that temper my optimism. Since my cleric's in the middle of an undead gap in RR, it'll be a while before I'm fighting anything I can really try it out on (gold wands and 111 are just so much better against trolls then anything else and I don't see myself casting 111 enough times in 30 sec to really benefit), so I'll be interested in what others think of the spell:
-What type of damage does the maneuver attack do and does it do enough that you want to cast the spell just for that?
-I suspect higher level characters will find it most useful just due to having the mana to cast higher level spells more often... is the damage and mana reduction balanced enough for it to be attractive to characters below level 50 that might not actually save much/any mana casting it. Since it has an up front cost of 20 mana, you'd need to cast 5 level 10 spells just to pay off the spell but most lower level clerics will be aiming to clear a room in fewer casts and/or will be using lower level spells when possible (they also won't have the SMC to increase the bonus)... but the damage the spell causes it's self could make it attractive even if you only break even or end up spending a little more mana then you otherwise would have....
Lastly, a question for Estild:
<The base mana reduction benefit is 20% and increases once a cleric has more than 200 skill in Spirit Mana Control (up to 25% at 2x SMC and 30% at 3x SMC, using the formula of ((SMC skill - 200) / 20)).>
You mean skill bonus and not skill ranks, yes? Doesn't make much sense with ranks, but you know, clarity and all that...
Starchitin, the OG
A severed gnomish hand crawls in on its fingertips and makes a rude gesture before quickly decaying and rotting into dust. A gust of wind quickly scatters the dust.
-What type of damage does the maneuver attack do and does it do enough that you want to cast the spell just for that?
-I suspect higher level characters will find it most useful just due to having the mana to cast higher level spells more often... is the damage and mana reduction balanced enough for it to be attractive to characters below level 50 that might not actually save much/any mana casting it. Since it has an up front cost of 20 mana, you'd need to cast 5 level 10 spells just to pay off the spell but most lower level clerics will be aiming to clear a room in fewer casts and/or will be using lower level spells when possible (they also won't have the SMC to increase the bonus)... but the damage the spell causes it's self could make it attractive even if you only break even or end up spending a little more mana then you otherwise would have....
Lastly, a question for Estild:
<The base mana reduction benefit is 20% and increases once a cleric has more than 200 skill in Spirit Mana Control (up to 25% at 2x SMC and 30% at 3x SMC, using the formula of ((SMC skill - 200) / 20)).>
You mean skill bonus and not skill ranks, yes? Doesn't make much sense with ranks, but you know, clarity and all that...
Starchitin, the OG
A severed gnomish hand crawls in on its fingertips and makes a rude gesture before quickly decaying and rotting into dust. A gust of wind quickly scatters the dust.
The base 20 mana is returned to the cleric over the 30 second window, so it basically costs nothing to cast. Its a pretty neat concept and I can't wait to play with it in more detail on the test server. I'm at work right nwo and can't dedicate time/attention to be cautious in the live instance and test it on like level creatures. Looking forward to see damage against like level this evening with spell aim and without.
<The base 20 mana is returned to the cleric over the 30 second window>
Bah, I missed that.... more bullet points and fewer paragraphs in spell releases!
Starchitin, the OG
A severed gnomish hand crawls in on its fingertips and makes a rude gesture before quickly decaying and rotting into dust. A gust of wind quickly scatters the dust.
Bah, I missed that.... more bullet points and fewer paragraphs in spell releases!
Starchitin, the OG
A severed gnomish hand crawls in on its fingertips and makes a rude gesture before quickly decaying and rotting into dust. A gust of wind quickly scatters the dust.
| OM1E5GA |
| What type of damage does the maneuver attack do and does it do enough that you want to cast the spell just for that? |
It deals disintegration criticals. I want to stress that the attack portion of the spell is secondary to mana benefits of the spell. It's very intentionally weaker than other maneuver spells like Earthen Fury (917) and Spike Thorn (616) even though 320 is higher level. The attack itself is simply a way to make the spell more interesting than just prep/cast every 30 seconds. If you're lucky, it can disable or kill your target, but your other attacks will potentially be better.
| OM1E5GA |
| Looks like it could be useful, though there are a couple points that temper my optimism. Since my cleric's in the middle of an undead gap in RR, it'll be a while before I'm fighting anything I can really try it out on (gold wands and 111 are just so much better against trolls then anything else and I don't see myself casting 111 enough times in 30 sec to really benefit), so I'll be interested in what others think of the spell: |
| I suspect higher level characters will find it most useful just due to having the mana to cast higher level spells more often... is the damage and mana reduction balanced enough for it to be attractive to characters below level 50 that might not actually save much/any mana casting it. Since it has an up front cost of 20 mana, you'd need to cast 5 level 10 spells just to pay off the spell but most lower level clerics will be aiming to clear a room in fewer casts and/or will be using lower level spells when possible (they also won't have the SMC to increase the bonus)... but the damage the spell causes it's self could make it attractive even if you only break even or end up spending a little more mana then you otherwise would have.... |
The spell is useful to clerics of any level. It cost 20 mana, but you get back 20 mana over 30 seconds. Specifically, every 2 seconds, you gain 1-2 mana. So effectively, the spell is free to cast. This is in addition to the mana reduction benefit of the spell. Unless you just don't care about the free attack or mana savings, there's almost no reason not to cast the spell.
| OM1E5GA |
| You mean skill bonus and not skill ranks, yes? Doesn't make much sense with ranks, but you know, clarity and all that... |
Yes, skill bonus.
GameMaster Estild
Thanks, Estild
Oh, and it occurred to me while in the shower that my math was off in my first post, but since no one noticed it I was just testing to see how much attention was being paid to it and you all failed!
Yea, that's it.... really... <slips into the shadows and hums quietly to himself>
Starchitin, the OG
A severed gnomish hand crawls in on its fingertips and makes a rude gesture before quickly decaying and rotting into dust. A gust of wind quickly scatters the dust.
Oh, and it occurred to me while in the shower that my math was off in my first post, but since no one noticed it I was just testing to see how much attention was being paid to it and you all failed!
Yea, that's it.... really... <slips into the shadows and hums quietly to himself>
Starchitin, the OG
A severed gnomish hand crawls in on its fingertips and makes a rude gesture before quickly decaying and rotting into dust. A gust of wind quickly scatters the dust.
I'll have to play around with this a lot more before I can truly weigh in, but want to say a few early impressions.
I seriously appreciate what this does mostly for Minor and Major Spiritual spells, since until now there hasn't been much if anything to mechanically point to clerics as being better with spiritual magic than empaths even though that's the case lore-wise. This closes at least some of that gap since now my cleric spends less mana on casts of 111 or 118 or 217, just for some examples, which is a pretty decent contrast against my empath having more power per individual cast.
I'm also really glad to see the use of Spell Aiming and beyond-100-ranks Spiritual Mana Control here since I've found little incentive to train those. I do think there's still work to be done, but these are steps in the right direction and another thing I seriously appreciate!
320 is a really complex spell and I'll admit I found it pretty overwhelming at first glance... even several glances. But overall I like it, and the way that it pays for itself and then some is kinda genius; it definitely made me push through to experiment anyway and will hopefully do the same for others. The cooldown is also making me pay more attention to the screen to keep it refreshed instead of just yawning through hunts with near-invincibility from 319.
On the downside, so far I've found myself naturally leaning toward self-casting 320 instead of using the maneuver since it's much easier to keep the timing on track in an empty room. Maybe that's intentional, I don't know, but I was looking forward to a maneuver spell and with the way things have turned out, the maneuver is secondary at best.
I do love seeing SMR numbers and disintegration crits added to my usual rotation of attacks, so I'm sure I'll still use the maneuver anyway, but right now it feels like I'd mostly be doing so for the same just-for-fun reason that I cast 118 and 306.
tl;dr:
Game-changing utility/buff spell, but the maneuver feels kinda "just there."
https://gswiki.play.net/Leafiara
I seriously appreciate what this does mostly for Minor and Major Spiritual spells, since until now there hasn't been much if anything to mechanically point to clerics as being better with spiritual magic than empaths even though that's the case lore-wise. This closes at least some of that gap since now my cleric spends less mana on casts of 111 or 118 or 217, just for some examples, which is a pretty decent contrast against my empath having more power per individual cast.
I'm also really glad to see the use of Spell Aiming and beyond-100-ranks Spiritual Mana Control here since I've found little incentive to train those. I do think there's still work to be done, but these are steps in the right direction and another thing I seriously appreciate!
320 is a really complex spell and I'll admit I found it pretty overwhelming at first glance... even several glances. But overall I like it, and the way that it pays for itself and then some is kinda genius; it definitely made me push through to experiment anyway and will hopefully do the same for others. The cooldown is also making me pay more attention to the screen to keep it refreshed instead of just yawning through hunts with near-invincibility from 319.
On the downside, so far I've found myself naturally leaning toward self-casting 320 instead of using the maneuver since it's much easier to keep the timing on track in an empty room. Maybe that's intentional, I don't know, but I was looking forward to a maneuver spell and with the way things have turned out, the maneuver is secondary at best.
I do love seeing SMR numbers and disintegration crits added to my usual rotation of attacks, so I'm sure I'll still use the maneuver anyway, but right now it feels like I'd mostly be doing so for the same just-for-fun reason that I cast 118 and 306.
tl;dr:
Game-changing utility/buff spell, but the maneuver feels kinda "just there."
https://gswiki.play.net/Leafiara
I am optimistic for the spell, and how it will add to my hunting. Allowing me, perhaps, to cast more than just 302 all the time at my level. I'll need to mess with it, of course. I like the concept. We'll see how it works out in the details. Which is where the devil lies.
GM Naionna at 11:41 PM
Whick is so pretty. it's a shame he has to talk.
GM Naionna at 11:41 PM
Whick is so pretty. it's a shame he has to talk.
Paraphrasing some things I was saying on Discord yesterday while messing around and testing 320, or earlier this morning in a discussion started when a player wasn't sure whether 320 was something their cleric would bother with:
-320 is for everyone; boil it down and the self-cast version is (minimum) 20% mana reduction for 3 seconds of soft RT
-320 does reduce the cost of defensive and utility spells (under 20th level)
-320 does reduce the cost of the additional mana spent for a spell if Rapid Fire was cast on your cleric during Rapid Fire cooldown
-Blink weapons can flare 320, but the cooldown is still there
-Some spells I'd say deserve consideration from a wider range of players than before: 111, bolt 118, 306, CS 118, area 118, 217, 214 (because of its scaling cost that's now mostly been offset), group 211/215/219, 117
-Random fun thing: saving 10.6 to 15.9 mana (<110 SMC to 300 SMC) on the 53-mana beast that is Benediction if it gets dispelled
https://gswiki.play.net/Leafiara
-320 is for everyone; boil it down and the self-cast version is (minimum) 20% mana reduction for 3 seconds of soft RT
-320 does reduce the cost of defensive and utility spells (under 20th level)
-320 does reduce the cost of the additional mana spent for a spell if Rapid Fire was cast on your cleric during Rapid Fire cooldown
-Blink weapons can flare 320, but the cooldown is still there
-Some spells I'd say deserve consideration from a wider range of players than before: 111, bolt 118, 306, CS 118, area 118, 217, 214 (because of its scaling cost that's now mostly been offset), group 211/215/219, 117
-Random fun thing: saving 10.6 to 15.9 mana (<110 SMC to 300 SMC) on the 53-mana beast that is Benediction if it gets dispelled
https://gswiki.play.net/Leafiara
This is quite neat, and I like how it is usable in a large variety of situations across all levels in some way. I like the attack only version idea also.
Also on a kill your enemy note, 301ing a creature first gives you +100 bonus on the SMR.
I am curious to see how it works out overall for people, especially with number crunching and maximization.
_ _ _
Myasara says, "Raining rocks down on my city was not the best course of action."
- - -
Nishima put a group of five partially frozen corpses in the Nishima disk.
Several frozen limbs peek out of the disk in a macabre fashion.
Also on a kill your enemy note, 301ing a creature first gives you +100 bonus on the SMR.
I am curious to see how it works out overall for people, especially with number crunching and maximization.
_ _ _
Myasara says, "Raining rocks down on my city was not the best course of action."
- - -
Nishima put a group of five partially frozen corpses in the Nishima disk.
Several frozen limbs peek out of the disk in a macabre fashion.
Wanted to chime in after about three weeks of 320! (Disclaimer: everything below is in the context of solo hunting. In group hunts, I don't bother rotating anything.)
For a cleric who can ward and bolt, it's incredibly more helpful than I was expecting it to be. You can salvage anything by tipping the scales toward either more power or less mana, and it's worked wonders for several spells that used to be almost worth casting.
I was a little iffy on the 30 second window being so short before, but after a lot of testing, it makes way more sense; with a full rotation, some spells save more than they cost over the next several casts. Extending that too long might be too powerful, and even at 30 seconds I can pretty easily go through all six single-target attack spells plus 217 in the Sanctum.
(...which is five more spells than I used to cast there! 111/317 or 111/312 just handled everything before, and still could, but there's so much incentive now to cast 302, 306, and bolt 118 that I can't justify not doing it.)
I don't know what pure warding clerics will think of the rotation aspect since they have fewer attack options, but I guess it doesn't really matter since the base mana reduction will always still be valuable. Maybe it works out, though, especially pre-cap when 201, 301, and 316 are more relevant.
I'll admit it takes a while to get used to keeping track of the last several spells used, and if the situation is especially swarmy and frantic then sometimes it's still easier to forget all that and spam away. Likewise, on solo bandits there's still no budging me from endless 316 and 317 and the occasional 111 to toy around. But even then, like I said, the base mana reduction is still great, so 320 always matters.
So kudos for an awesome spell design!
https://gswiki.play.net/Leafiara
For a cleric who can ward and bolt, it's incredibly more helpful than I was expecting it to be. You can salvage anything by tipping the scales toward either more power or less mana, and it's worked wonders for several spells that used to be almost worth casting.
I was a little iffy on the 30 second window being so short before, but after a lot of testing, it makes way more sense; with a full rotation, some spells save more than they cost over the next several casts. Extending that too long might be too powerful, and even at 30 seconds I can pretty easily go through all six single-target attack spells plus 217 in the Sanctum.
(...which is five more spells than I used to cast there! 111/317 or 111/312 just handled everything before, and still could, but there's so much incentive now to cast 302, 306, and bolt 118 that I can't justify not doing it.)
I don't know what pure warding clerics will think of the rotation aspect since they have fewer attack options, but I guess it doesn't really matter since the base mana reduction will always still be valuable. Maybe it works out, though, especially pre-cap when 201, 301, and 316 are more relevant.
I'll admit it takes a while to get used to keeping track of the last several spells used, and if the situation is especially swarmy and frantic then sometimes it's still easier to forget all that and spam away. Likewise, on solo bandits there's still no budging me from endless 316 and 317 and the occasional 111 to toy around. But even then, like I said, the base mana reduction is still great, so 320 always matters.
So kudos for an awesome spell design!
https://gswiki.play.net/Leafiara
| RATHBONER |
| Can the SF cooldown display be made more accurate, or done away with altogether, since at the moment its wrong more often than its right. |
| It even flips from wrongly showing the cooldown as active to wrongly not showing it on a cast of 320. |
Both of these issues should now be resolved. Let me know if you notice any other oddities with it.
GameMaster Estild
>>Can the SF cooldown display be made more accurate, or done away with altogether, since at the moment its wrong more often than its right.
>>It even flips from wrongly showing the cooldown as active to wrongly not showing it on a cast of 320.
It would be correct if the code had it force an update to the Spell Active window. I know the Martial Stances do that. I'm not sure why all spells or effects for that window don't do that. When I returned from my long break, I noticed Monks' meditative resistance doesn't update the window and that's been driving me nuts. Not enough to submit a bug report, mind you, but nuts all the same.
Glimmin Goodhand
>>It even flips from wrongly showing the cooldown as active to wrongly not showing it on a cast of 320.
It would be correct if the code had it force an update to the Spell Active window. I know the Martial Stances do that. I'm not sure why all spells or effects for that window don't do that. When I returned from my long break, I noticed Monks' meditative resistance doesn't update the window and that's been driving me nuts. Not enough to submit a bug report, mind you, but nuts all the same.
Glimmin Goodhand
| Glimmin Goodhand |
| It would be correct if the code had it force an update to the Spell Active window. I know the Martial Stances do that. I'm not sure why all spells or effects for that window don't do that. When I returned from my long break, I noticed Monks' meditative resistance doesn't update the window and that's been driving me nuts. Not enough to submit a bug report, mind you, but nuts all the same. |
That's also fixed.
GameMaster Estild
>Both of these issues should now be resolved. Let me know if you notice any other oddities with it.
The combat window only works with 320 when there is a critter target available, it fails rather than generating a self cast with no critter present when attempting to cast from the combat window.
>
You do not currently have a target.
>
The combat window only works with 320 when there is a critter target available, it fails rather than generating a self cast with no critter present when attempting to cast from the combat window.
>
You do not currently have a target.
>
| RATHBONER |
| The combat window only works with 320 when there is a critter target available, it fails rather than generating a self cast with no critter present when attempting to cast from the combat window. |
That's intended. INCANT by default will only process offensive spells if there is a valid target in the room. You can override it by using INCANT 320 OPEN as a 1-off or set INCANT to always OPEN cast it by using INCANT SET OPEN 320. The former can't be used with the Combat dialog and the latter will cause 320 to always be self-cast, so it may not be ideal for your situation.
GameMaster Estild
| LEAFIARA |
| Wanted to chime in after about three weeks of 320! |
| ... |
| So kudos for an awesome spell design! |
Great feedback and it's truly nice to hear the design is working out. I didn't expect it to be a silver bullet for the issues presented, but from what you and others have stated, it's certainly helped the situation. Hopefully we can continue that trend into the next update(s).
GameMaster Estild
I know I'm late to the party, but 320 feels very lackluster.
Disregarding the damage aspect wholly, 20% discount for 30sec doesn't feel like a whole lot, and having to jump through hoops to get more discount is very gimmicky and will often be ignored, doubly so if you're not using bolts due to not having any room in your training plan for Spell Aim.
I suggest increasing the base discount, the duration, and reducing the number of unique spells to gain the discount bonus. You could even remove the damage aspect and I wouldn't bat an eye over it.
My 2 cents.
Disregarding the damage aspect wholly, 20% discount for 30sec doesn't feel like a whole lot, and having to jump through hoops to get more discount is very gimmicky and will often be ignored, doubly so if you're not using bolts due to not having any room in your training plan for Spell Aim.
I suggest increasing the base discount, the duration, and reducing the number of unique spells to gain the discount bonus. You could even remove the damage aspect and I wouldn't bat an eye over it.
My 2 cents.
I think 320 is spot on. It pretty much doubled the duration of my hunts and against crittable targets, I get quite a few instant kills.
| As I gaze over the horizon, the wind tugs at my cloak and whispers, "Adventure" in my ear. |
| Whick's body sways back and forth for a bit. |
| * Whick drops dead at your feet! |
