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>>I don't care, personally, to make (direct) money off of 925. I just want to make my own characters better. I know, I'm in the minority, probably, with this, since 925 is one of the main sources of cash flow for wizards. I just hate the idea that any sort of 'service' that I'm just performing for my own characters is locked behind a hunting-wall... it's just ridiculous. (I'm the same with ensorcell, which is why none of my characters have any ensorcelled items. I can't afford it, and I don't have my own sorcerer to do it for me.)
This is how I was with my wizard as well. Pretty much only enchanted stuff for my own characters. I don't pay for ensorcell either for the same reason, no sorcerer character of my own. Only got a few pieces of gears with ensorcell on them because they were purchased second hand already with it.
Enchanting solely impacts and improves combat, though. It directly makes you (general you) better at hunting.
No snark, actual curiosity, but why would you need to enchant gear for your characters, if you don't hunt them even nominally? Why should you be allowed to make others gear permanently better for hunting, with no effort? Every other player service requires you to interact with the game in a quantifiable fashion (ensnorkel, bard unlocks, mystical tattoos). Hunting happens to be the most easily quantifiable method, but I expect staff is open to other suggestions, too.
Personally, I think the direction we've moved in for enchanting has been amazing, and opened up a whole lot of new options. I'm on the last +1 going for my first ever 10x item, and it sure feels quite accomplished. My enthusiasm for enchanting is substantially higher, under the new system.
I do not think Katara is a pocket wizard, and I'm pretty bummed she is noting being so negatively impacted by this as a regular and active player. However, I am thrilled that pocket enchanters cannot exist under the new system.
~Amanda, player of Treeva
No snark, actual curiosity, but why would you need to enchant gear for your characters, if you don't hunt them even nominally? Why should you be allowed to make others gear permanently better for hunting, with no effort? Every other player service requires you to interact with the game in a quantifiable fashion (ensnorkel, bard unlocks, mystical tattoos). Hunting happens to be the most easily quantifiable method, but I expect staff is open to other suggestions, too.
Personally, I think the direction we've moved in for enchanting has been amazing, and opened up a whole lot of new options. I'm on the last +1 going for my first ever 10x item, and it sure feels quite accomplished. My enthusiasm for enchanting is substantially higher, under the new system.
I do not think Katara is a pocket wizard, and I'm pretty bummed she is noting being so negatively impacted by this as a regular and active player. However, I am thrilled that pocket enchanters cannot exist under the new system.
~Amanda, player of Treeva
>Personally, I think the direction we've moved in for enchanting has been amazing, and opened up a whole lot of new options. I'm on the last +1 going for my first ever 10x item, and it sure feels quite accomplished. My enthusiasm for enchanting is substantially higher, under the new system
So you're saying becauae if the new enchanting system you've been allowed to enchant to 10x?
Since DR came about getting anything enchanted above 7x has become pretty easy, old system or new system. Get the necessary pots and wizard....easy peasy.
If I had the money or silvers to obtain 8x-10x pots I could have easily enchanted stuff above 7x; old system or new one.
I fail to see how you could have only accomplished a 10x project with the new system and how were unable to achieve the same with the old system.
>I do not think Katara is a pocket wizard, and I'm pretty bummed she is noting being so negatively impacted by this as a regular and active player. However, I am thrilled that pocket enchanters cannot exist under the new system.
If you think pocket wizards are a thing of the past, then perhaps you don't notice the scripted hunting of capped wizards that can blow through some hunting areas real quick and then vanish for 15-20 minutes..... then they blow through hunting areas again. I'm not saying these wizards are AFK scripting, but these post-cap wizards are very effective at clearing rooms and moving to build essence pools up.
Pocket wizard's are still a thing. In fact, as you can read from one of my previous posts, you can see how much more lucrative the new system is for wizards than the old system.
Don't for a moment think pocket wizards are gone.
The problem Katara is having, along with other wizards that don't enjoy spending their valuable time playing a "wannabe Lumnis Contest" just so they can do some level of enchanting, is that the use of the spell has been taken away from then solely because they don't hunt.
Taking a spell and changing it so drastically that you're prevented fron using it after having access to it since the spell's conception is (in my opinion) downright shitty.
What if one day bards can no longer use sonic weapons/shields/armor becasuse the spell is now tied to having skill in using the FORGING system. Not only do they need to master forging skills, but they are required to do at least 8 hours of forging a week so the can use their hunting spells.
That's about as drastic of a move as forcing the use of the enchanting spell to require hunting and makes about as much sense.
So you're saying becauae if the new enchanting system you've been allowed to enchant to 10x?
Since DR came about getting anything enchanted above 7x has become pretty easy, old system or new system. Get the necessary pots and wizard....easy peasy.
If I had the money or silvers to obtain 8x-10x pots I could have easily enchanted stuff above 7x; old system or new one.
I fail to see how you could have only accomplished a 10x project with the new system and how were unable to achieve the same with the old system.
>I do not think Katara is a pocket wizard, and I'm pretty bummed she is noting being so negatively impacted by this as a regular and active player. However, I am thrilled that pocket enchanters cannot exist under the new system.
If you think pocket wizards are a thing of the past, then perhaps you don't notice the scripted hunting of capped wizards that can blow through some hunting areas real quick and then vanish for 15-20 minutes..... then they blow through hunting areas again. I'm not saying these wizards are AFK scripting, but these post-cap wizards are very effective at clearing rooms and moving to build essence pools up.
Pocket wizard's are still a thing. In fact, as you can read from one of my previous posts, you can see how much more lucrative the new system is for wizards than the old system.
Don't for a moment think pocket wizards are gone.
The problem Katara is having, along with other wizards that don't enjoy spending their valuable time playing a "wannabe Lumnis Contest" just so they can do some level of enchanting, is that the use of the spell has been taken away from then solely because they don't hunt.
Taking a spell and changing it so drastically that you're prevented fron using it after having access to it since the spell's conception is (in my opinion) downright shitty.
What if one day bards can no longer use sonic weapons/shields/armor becasuse the spell is now tied to having skill in using the FORGING system. Not only do they need to master forging skills, but they are required to do at least 8 hours of forging a week so the can use their hunting spells.
That's about as drastic of a move as forcing the use of the enchanting spell to require hunting and makes about as much sense.
That's something of a paper tiger with the BardSong comparison, because--old system or new--any given cast of Enchant was going to be a substantial time offset from the next. Old system you would wait for the temper timer, new system you wait to build up a big stock of points.
Now, if you wanted to draw a comparison between, say, a Cleric casting Commune or a Paladin casting Sanctify (oh, gee, that's already limited to 'One, ever', isn't it?) or something else of similar level of power, that might be more apt.
Now, if you wanted to draw a comparison between, say, a Cleric casting Commune or a Paladin casting Sanctify (oh, gee, that's already limited to 'One, ever', isn't it?) or something else of similar level of power, that might be more apt.
>>So you're saying becauae if the new enchanting system you've been allowed to enchant to 10x?
No, I didn't say that anywhere. I said it opened up more options on enchanting and improved my enthusiasm level. Also noted was my own milestone enchanting progression, in GemStone.
>>I fail to see how you could have only accomplished a 10x project with the new system and how were unable to achieve the same with the old system.
Nor did I say this, anywhere.
Though, I could not enchant, for example, acuity flares, or mana flares or creaturebane under the old system. The statement: "Since DR came about getting anything enchanted above 7x has become pretty easy" was not true, for me, until the new system was released, and some many months beyond that, even. (High end enchanting potions were not available via DR for multiple cycles, after the new system released.) Now, I can enchant the majority of things I desire, but still nowhere near getting anything enchanted above 7x is pretty easy. If it were pretty easy, I sincerely doubt this conversation would be happening. It takes considerable effort and time, even with the substantially expanded options.
Mages having to go out and hunt is what I want, and do not consider this at all pocket style. That is a person playing their alt and engaging with the games combat, because they want to enchant and improve gear for combat. I also don't have any issue with people script hunting for ease, especially in the areas they've been hunting for over a decade straight.
The bards and forging comparison was not at all apt.
Again, I remain confused as to why you'd need to enchant up your gear, if you never have any intention of hunting. Enchanting gear is expressly done to make yourself a more efficient hunter. Unsure why the time to reply, to put words in my mouth, but not actually answer the question asked. I'm trying to understand why you'd need to enchant as a 100% non hunter. It is not that I'm against an alternative option and effort investment for gaining essence, I just don't see why it's needed in this case.
~Amanda, player of Treeva
No, I didn't say that anywhere. I said it opened up more options on enchanting and improved my enthusiasm level. Also noted was my own milestone enchanting progression, in GemStone.
>>I fail to see how you could have only accomplished a 10x project with the new system and how were unable to achieve the same with the old system.
Nor did I say this, anywhere.
Though, I could not enchant, for example, acuity flares, or mana flares or creaturebane under the old system. The statement: "Since DR came about getting anything enchanted above 7x has become pretty easy" was not true, for me, until the new system was released, and some many months beyond that, even. (High end enchanting potions were not available via DR for multiple cycles, after the new system released.) Now, I can enchant the majority of things I desire, but still nowhere near getting anything enchanted above 7x is pretty easy. If it were pretty easy, I sincerely doubt this conversation would be happening. It takes considerable effort and time, even with the substantially expanded options.
Mages having to go out and hunt is what I want, and do not consider this at all pocket style. That is a person playing their alt and engaging with the games combat, because they want to enchant and improve gear for combat. I also don't have any issue with people script hunting for ease, especially in the areas they've been hunting for over a decade straight.
The bards and forging comparison was not at all apt.
Again, I remain confused as to why you'd need to enchant up your gear, if you never have any intention of hunting. Enchanting gear is expressly done to make yourself a more efficient hunter. Unsure why the time to reply, to put words in my mouth, but not actually answer the question asked. I'm trying to understand why you'd need to enchant as a 100% non hunter. It is not that I'm against an alternative option and effort investment for gaining essence, I just don't see why it's needed in this case.
~Amanda, player of Treeva
>Mages having to go out and hunt is what I want, and do not consider this at all pocket style. That is a person playing their alt and engaging with the games combat, because they want to enchant and improve gear for combat. I also don't have any issue with people script hunting for ease, especially in the areas they've been hunting for over a decade straight.
>I'm trying to understand why you'd need to enchant as a 100% non hunter. It is not that I'm against an alternative option and effort investment for gaining essence, I just don't see why it's needed in this case.
That's just your assumption that they are enchanting up their gear. Again, pocket mages are not gone. They've just adapted to the system. Instead of just logging in to enchant and then log out, they just script through hunting essence and earn more for their time with the massive up tick in cost if they sell it or use it on items that they in turn resell for a lot.
>The bards and forging comparison was not at all apt.
Why? A change like that makes as much sense as forcing hunting to use enchant.
Just because enchanting boosts an item's properties doesn't mean you or any one should be requires to sink time hunting to utilize the spell.
>Mages having to go out and hunt is what I want, and do not consider this at all pocket style.
So it's a good change for you, that's great. What about the people that don't hunt their mage, like Katara yet still enjoyed using the spell to enchant items - regardless if it's for their other characters they hunt with or for other people that are looking enchanted equipment?
A pocket mage that didn't hunt under the last system or hunts under the new doesn't make them a contributing member of the game.
Old system, log in, cast, exit.
New system, log in, script hunt, build essence, exit.
Neither system means the wizard is any different in terms of being an active, contirbuting member of the game. They are still just a pocket mage.
>I'm trying to understand why you'd need to enchant as a 100% non hunter. It is not that I'm against an alternative option and effort investment for gaining essence, I just don't see why it's needed in this case.
That's just your assumption that they are enchanting up their gear. Again, pocket mages are not gone. They've just adapted to the system. Instead of just logging in to enchant and then log out, they just script through hunting essence and earn more for their time with the massive up tick in cost if they sell it or use it on items that they in turn resell for a lot.
>The bards and forging comparison was not at all apt.
Why? A change like that makes as much sense as forcing hunting to use enchant.
Just because enchanting boosts an item's properties doesn't mean you or any one should be requires to sink time hunting to utilize the spell.
>Mages having to go out and hunt is what I want, and do not consider this at all pocket style.
So it's a good change for you, that's great. What about the people that don't hunt their mage, like Katara yet still enjoyed using the spell to enchant items - regardless if it's for their other characters they hunt with or for other people that are looking enchanted equipment?
A pocket mage that didn't hunt under the last system or hunts under the new doesn't make them a contributing member of the game.
Old system, log in, cast, exit.
New system, log in, script hunt, build essence, exit.
Neither system means the wizard is any different in terms of being an active, contirbuting member of the game. They are still just a pocket mage.
Suggestion as a taking off point, in attempts to foster positive discussion and/or compromise.
Easily quantifiable means of game interaction. When a player receives an RPA, allow them to be given the option of two award types.
Example: Congratulations, Wizard! You've been recognized with a Roleplaying Award. Please select either experience or essence.
Congratulations, Sorcerer! You've been recognized with a Roleplaying Award. Please select either experience or necrotic energy.
And so on.
If you select the profession resource, you automatically receive a lump chunk of it. Cannot exceed weekly cap.
~Amanda, player of Treeva
Easily quantifiable means of game interaction. When a player receives an RPA, allow them to be given the option of two award types.
Example: Congratulations, Wizard! You've been recognized with a Roleplaying Award. Please select either experience or essence.
Congratulations, Sorcerer! You've been recognized with a Roleplaying Award. Please select either experience or necrotic energy.
And so on.
If you select the profession resource, you automatically receive a lump chunk of it. Cannot exceed weekly cap.
~Amanda, player of Treeva
I am a huge proponent of turning all the various resource systems to work like the new monk motes do, entirely off of EXP gain.
That way people do not have to hunt in order to gain their resource and instead can engage with the game as they choose to earn it. Roleplaying awards would directly lead to essence gain in this scenario. It would allow folks to just do gem bounties if they wanted and still gain essence towards enchanting.
As for 'pocket mages'...well, no this new system does not stop pocket mages, but the new enchanting system brings with it a wealth of QoL enhancements for a vast majority of players. It encourages actively engaging with the games systems...and while yes, many are simply scripting through this engagement, it is far better than idling through their time offline. It benefits the game by making it feel more alive for those who care about number of players online (which many seem to, I do not personally) and it makes the hunting areas feel more 'lived in'.
The biggest boon to the new enchanting system over the old, however, was no longer needing to not use your gear while it was in the process of being brought up. For that sin alone, the old system needed to die in a fire.
And asking for 'something for nothing' by merely gaining essence over time while logged on or off, with no interaction necessary with the game nor its systems, seems a little...odd. I mean, why not make earning experience done the same way? Or silver? Everyone just auto gets experience and silver for existing. Its a GOOD thing that you are made to interact with systems in order to receive a reward.
That said, I will repeat: I would like to see essence gain tied to exp gain, rather than JUST hunting.
AuchandToday at 11:28 PM
I would like to reiterate: Whick is my hero.
What is love? BB don't hurt me05/13/2020
Whick's so helpful! He's our villain even in our backchannel chatter as staff. :smile:
That way people do not have to hunt in order to gain their resource and instead can engage with the game as they choose to earn it. Roleplaying awards would directly lead to essence gain in this scenario. It would allow folks to just do gem bounties if they wanted and still gain essence towards enchanting.
As for 'pocket mages'...well, no this new system does not stop pocket mages, but the new enchanting system brings with it a wealth of QoL enhancements for a vast majority of players. It encourages actively engaging with the games systems...and while yes, many are simply scripting through this engagement, it is far better than idling through their time offline. It benefits the game by making it feel more alive for those who care about number of players online (which many seem to, I do not personally) and it makes the hunting areas feel more 'lived in'.
The biggest boon to the new enchanting system over the old, however, was no longer needing to not use your gear while it was in the process of being brought up. For that sin alone, the old system needed to die in a fire.
And asking for 'something for nothing' by merely gaining essence over time while logged on or off, with no interaction necessary with the game nor its systems, seems a little...odd. I mean, why not make earning experience done the same way? Or silver? Everyone just auto gets experience and silver for existing. Its a GOOD thing that you are made to interact with systems in order to receive a reward.
That said, I will repeat: I would like to see essence gain tied to exp gain, rather than JUST hunting.
AuchandToday at 11:28 PM
I would like to reiterate: Whick is my hero.
What is love? BB don't hurt me05/13/2020
Whick's so helpful! He's our villain even in our backchannel chatter as staff. :smile:
I'm wondering why Wizards are being forced to choose. How about allowing both methods? If someone wants to log in and powerhunt 24/7 they are gated by the amount of Essence they can gather and potions needed for higher enchants. If someone wants to log in and hang out with friends, then pour a potion and log off they are gated by the temper times and potions need for higher enchants.
There will always be Spellbots. Why not allow both at the same time? What difference does it make?
Avaia, player of
There will always be Spellbots. Why not allow both at the same time? What difference does it make?
Avaia, player of
A short / simple answer would be the dev and support overhead required to maintain and debug / error-check two systems, instead of one. Slightly behind that would be the knock on effect of future development for capabilities with the spell - more complex because it would have to take into account two avenues instead of one. Add to that any new material releases. . .
These are general dev reasons for 'retiring' something that is being updated, rather than letting the old one continue to live from a legacy perspective. Not saying it should be sufficient or the only reason why, but I think it is important to remember.
Doug
These are general dev reasons for 'retiring' something that is being updated, rather than letting the old one continue to live from a legacy perspective. Not saying it should be sufficient or the only reason why, but I think it is important to remember.
Doug
The old system tho has what, almost 20 years of debugging.. It should, in theory, stand just fine without much 'fixing' if it's left in place. And I loved that idea of allowing the old system to enchant simpler, plain items (with no scripts or fusion abilities, et al) and just leaving the more difficult enchants to this new system. It's not a bad compromise. The new system would always get more value for the work and those of us who are satisfied with plain enchants can at the very least keep doing that and offering them to folks who can't afford 20+mil for armor, etc.
I did an auction early last year I think, at Silvergate that was just for newer players. I auctioned off, at cheap rates, new outfits with x4 or x5 leathers included in most. I initially thought it would be a few people showing up out of curiosity and it turned out to be extremely popular. I couldn't keep doing it because of personal issues that occupied my time last year and I had to prioritize events that didn't take so much prep.
The other day I screamed FINE and suited up to go hunting on Teras but before I was able to set one foot at the Ruined Temple, I was called back to Landing to help with an issue at Silvergate. I'm not saying it's always going to be like that but at least for me, running Silvergate, helping friends, plotting events, having fun at merchants or fests will always take priority over hunting when I am in game.
Silly me is still hoping for some kind of compromise. I don't want to take away from the fun and profit people are having with the new system but I also don't want to be excluded from it either. This spell historically was never tied to hunting nor was there ever an inkling that it would be until last year. And I'm sorry but I really do not care about pocket mages. There is always, not just in enchanting, but in every damn system in this game a way to make it work for the player in some manner. People will do what people do and this new system doesn't excise pocket mages nor do I care if they exist or not. They've just evolved and will evolve again if this system gets remade into some galactic quest for stardust in order to enchant. I simply just want to use the spell I earned over time in the way it was presented to me to begin with- mostly. And yeah, yeah I get the game has to evolve and be challenging.. whatever nonsense is said to justify the change; but never in a trillion years did I think it would be tied to hunting and not just ordinary hunting but power mode must take advantage of every second type of hunting. It's absolutely INSANE the amount of tedious sludge you have to drill through in order to get your weekly essence capped.
And when people ask if you are happier doing other things why do you still want to enchant? :insert annoyed eye roll:
Because I play a fracking mage and I've played a fracking mage for a really, really long time and enchanting is part of what defines a mage.
Yes, I enchant for profit, for friends, for my own younger characters, for prizes and on occasion I have randomly given out enchants. But besides those reasons, the ability to enchant is innate to any mage and altering our access to it is just wrong. This isn't a small change that one gets annoyed with but finds a way to deal; this is a drastic change that alters the way a mage is played.
>>The old system tho has what, almost 20 years of debugging..
Without quibbling, yes - but it still generated assists, disgruntlement on locks, etc. Even after all that time.
>>They've just evolved and will evolve again if this system gets remade into some galactic quest for stardust in order to enchant.
Yes, absolutely. (Nice galactic ref, too!) I am not ignoring the perspective. If I could find a way, I would make it so that power-anything didn't affect enchanting. I often say take it out of the game simply because I'm tired of the 'revenue generation' aspect that seems to make some players exceptionally happy.
If there were a way to enable the casual enchanter - much like the casual player facet of experience gathering was boosted - I'd be all in. I don't honestly believe that just going back to or retaining the old system should be the answer, for a number of reasons. After all, we deserve better.
Doug
Without quibbling, yes - but it still generated assists, disgruntlement on locks, etc. Even after all that time.
>>They've just evolved and will evolve again if this system gets remade into some galactic quest for stardust in order to enchant.
Yes, absolutely. (Nice galactic ref, too!) I am not ignoring the perspective. If I could find a way, I would make it so that power-anything didn't affect enchanting. I often say take it out of the game simply because I'm tired of the 'revenue generation' aspect that seems to make some players exceptionally happy.
If there were a way to enable the casual enchanter - much like the casual player facet of experience gathering was boosted - I'd be all in. I don't honestly believe that just going back to or retaining the old system should be the answer, for a number of reasons. After all, we deserve better.
Doug
Let me just say this, hon..
I am all for compromise but give me something I can at least work with! 16 hours a week hunting? Nope, never going to happen and nor is half that time or half again.
And while they've boosted, slightly, the exp gain for casual players I think that more can be done about that. There's a whole slew of people that are not in love with hunting but would totally do other stuff. Knitting, weaving, systems like that could have some kind of exp gain to them or people could come up with other creative ways to gain exp or essence. I just can't stand this method.
:goes off to pout in the corner:
>why would you need to enchant gear for your characters, if you don't hunt them even nominally?
I do hunt with my characters... just not all of them, including my wizard. I enchant(ed) gear for the two or three of my characters (was hoping for more, but then 925 got this messed up stuff going on), so that they could hunt better and more effeciently, so that I could afford to get gear that my (non-hunting) wizard could then enchant up better for more of my characters.
I also fail to see how hunting should be the only way to gain wizard essence, since you can learn (aka, gain experience) by doing other things... alchemy, non-hunting bounty tasks, artisan skills. Really, any sort of essence/energy/tranquility/etc.etc. that professions use for services should be based off of experience absorbed.... and just experience absorption, no matter where that experience comes from. (It should also have no expiration date, but I don't know things currently have exp.times or not, since it's a system-thing that I hate and haven't dealt with.)
~Cylnthia Kythnis Ardenai
~Paragon of Kuon
~Rose Guardian, House Sylvanfair
I do hunt with my characters... just not all of them, including my wizard. I enchant(ed) gear for the two or three of my characters (was hoping for more, but then 925 got this messed up stuff going on), so that they could hunt better and more effeciently, so that I could afford to get gear that my (non-hunting) wizard could then enchant up better for more of my characters.
I also fail to see how hunting should be the only way to gain wizard essence, since you can learn (aka, gain experience) by doing other things... alchemy, non-hunting bounty tasks, artisan skills. Really, any sort of essence/energy/tranquility/etc.etc. that professions use for services should be based off of experience absorbed.... and just experience absorption, no matter where that experience comes from. (It should also have no expiration date, but I don't know things currently have exp.times or not, since it's a system-thing that I hate and haven't dealt with.)
~Cylnthia Kythnis Ardenai
~Paragon of Kuon
~Rose Guardian, House Sylvanfair
I think a good medium is to find a way to hunt "a little bit" and enchant just the same. No hunting would have to be a token thing. Tying it to exp instead of kills would also be nice, but the whole idea of 1000xp for a gem bounty really needs to be updated. Broken systems set broken expectations. Doing bounty tasks should be tied more to bounty point rewards, with more and better rewards (and tasks) to go around, and much less tied to exp gain.
