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Here's an idea for some critter-type Enchantes.
Fenrae critters would be ideal for these.
A fear-induced enchante. Where you drop your items in your hands & run 3 or 4 rooms away in terror. & then can't do battle for a minute.
A Resolve-type enchante.
And a Charm-type enchante. Where if you fail, you then protect the critter from all attackers, including former members of your own hunting group. Just make it so that if an Empath is charmed, any attacks while charmed doesn't give the Empath empathic shock.
Merauld Curse. (anti-Merauld's Blessing) This enchante will drain the mana from all listening, in pulses and prevents it from restoring until either the Blessing is played (which will nulify the affect) or until the Critter is killed. Have each pulse drain it about 20 - 30 points (old system), so a good mage will have about 6 pulses before losing all mana. Assuming he doesn't cast, which will just drain him faster.
Critter Nexus, increases Critter Mana at the expense of All other mana. It's a one-time song, which lasts for a half hour, regardless if the critter dies before the mana reverts back. This will give the Critter at least a symphony of mana, probably deafening, and will lower all other mana's by 3 or 4.
Paerr
>>A fear-induced enchante. Where you drop your items in your hands & run 3 or 4 rooms away in terror. & then can't do battle for a minute.
I would really recommend a different effect for this than dropping everything in your hands, I really do.
Otherwise, you'll find that these critters would be very unpopular. I know I am never going to be hunting Gargs, except wth FRS weapons.
I have a nice weapon, that I spent a LOT of time obtaining, and I really don't want it getting janitored. And it is not bondable, from what I hear. And virtually irreplaceable.
I would really recommend a different effect for this than dropping everything in your hands, I really do.
Otherwise, you'll find that these critters would be very unpopular. I know I am never going to be hunting Gargs, except wth FRS weapons.
I have a nice weapon, that I spent a LOT of time obtaining, and I really don't want it getting janitored. And it is not bondable, from what I hear. And virtually irreplaceable.
I had to respond to this... I'm going to try and hold my cynical tongue...
<<A fear-induced enchante.>>
No, this isn't gemstone3... We aren't going to have a mass invasion where all the 'frontline' warriors are on their knees crying and wetting themselves out of terror after dropping their weapon and shield, which is what we see outside the landing gate there everytime an 'invasion' is spearheaded by a powerful monster with 'fear' abilities....
Let's NOT let this happen... The economical damage would far outweigh the benefits(?) of an entire town being immobilized, on their knees, without weapon or shield, in front of a hoarde.
And even if you meant a type of monster doing this, which i'm sure you did.... NO!
<<A Resolve-type enchante.>>
Is that the one where the phantom scary image makes you think you're being blown up or something horrible and you cower on the ground?.... Cowering on the ground... kind of sounds like fear again, only without the dropping stuff..... let's pass on this one too.
<<And a Charm-type enchante>>
This isn't your standard mud you know, where it's hard coded into the 'charmy' system, where some creatures KNOW when they have help, and 'order all assist' in response or something...
Can you even imagine <look at the goblin sword, for example> the time and the coding it would take, to tell a monster it's intelligent, tell it it's got someone under it's control, then draw up an AI program for this monster, to tell it how to command the person under it's control, who to make it attack, how to defend it, what to do?... What if It made you strip naked and go wait in the corner to die after it killed your friends?
In a word? IMPOSSIBLE...
You would need a human brain commanding that creature with the charm... Now, that doesn't mean it has no place in the game... Maybe as the end of quest evil monster, which would be GM controlled, who would then know how to order around whoever gets charmed and whatnot... But on a small scale 'You hunt this critter, AI makes this critter charm and control you'.... just ain't gonna happen.
<<Merauld Curse. (anti-Merauld's Blessing)>>
That's 'Meraud' by the way... And this looks just like a small, pulsing version of mana disrupt.. which is creature magic to begin with. And as a scroll advocate(and there are plenty of us), I can say that walking into a room with this monster, and 'pulsing' away 30-40 <old system> points of my harness would really and seriously piss me off and ruin my day.... not a good thing.
<<Critter Nexus, increases Critter Mana at the expense of All other mana. >>
That's like saying 'Critter air... Increases creature oxygen in the room, at the cost of all other oxygen'..
</cynicism>
Sorry... What i'm saying is, critter magic is people magic... One of the main things addressed with magic 2.1, is now that magic is the same across the board. That creature you see using magic, is using it just as if it were a player casting it on you.
In a word:NO. (Since it's literally impossible, there is no way to differentiate, at all, period, and if there was, I doubt Meraud, god of all things magical, would choose to reward evil beasts of the land, while penalizing those citizens who've obtained favors... sometimes from him even)
-Trazier 'Felt good to get that off my chest' Zier
<<A fear-induced enchante.>>
No, this isn't gemstone3... We aren't going to have a mass invasion where all the 'frontline' warriors are on their knees crying and wetting themselves out of terror after dropping their weapon and shield, which is what we see outside the landing gate there everytime an 'invasion' is spearheaded by a powerful monster with 'fear' abilities....
Let's NOT let this happen... The economical damage would far outweigh the benefits(?) of an entire town being immobilized, on their knees, without weapon or shield, in front of a hoarde.
And even if you meant a type of monster doing this, which i'm sure you did.... NO!
<<A Resolve-type enchante.>>
Is that the one where the phantom scary image makes you think you're being blown up or something horrible and you cower on the ground?.... Cowering on the ground... kind of sounds like fear again, only without the dropping stuff..... let's pass on this one too.
<<And a Charm-type enchante>>
This isn't your standard mud you know, where it's hard coded into the 'charmy' system, where some creatures KNOW when they have help, and 'order all assist' in response or something...
Can you even imagine <look at the goblin sword, for example> the time and the coding it would take, to tell a monster it's intelligent, tell it it's got someone under it's control, then draw up an AI program for this monster, to tell it how to command the person under it's control, who to make it attack, how to defend it, what to do?... What if It made you strip naked and go wait in the corner to die after it killed your friends?
In a word? IMPOSSIBLE...
You would need a human brain commanding that creature with the charm... Now, that doesn't mean it has no place in the game... Maybe as the end of quest evil monster, which would be GM controlled, who would then know how to order around whoever gets charmed and whatnot... But on a small scale 'You hunt this critter, AI makes this critter charm and control you'.... just ain't gonna happen.
<<Merauld Curse. (anti-Merauld's Blessing)>>
That's 'Meraud' by the way... And this looks just like a small, pulsing version of mana disrupt.. which is creature magic to begin with. And as a scroll advocate(and there are plenty of us), I can say that walking into a room with this monster, and 'pulsing' away 30-40 <old system> points of my harness would really and seriously piss me off and ruin my day.... not a good thing.
<<Critter Nexus, increases Critter Mana at the expense of All other mana. >>
That's like saying 'Critter air... Increases creature oxygen in the room, at the cost of all other oxygen'..
</cynicism>
Sorry... What i'm saying is, critter magic is people magic... One of the main things addressed with magic 2.1, is now that magic is the same across the board. That creature you see using magic, is using it just as if it were a player casting it on you.
In a word:NO. (Since it's literally impossible, there is no way to differentiate, at all, period, and if there was, I doubt Meraud, god of all things magical, would choose to reward evil beasts of the land, while penalizing those citizens who've obtained favors... sometimes from him even)
-Trazier 'Felt good to get that off my chest' Zier
These Bard Enchante using critters have been discussed before, I believe in the Bard boards....from what I remember they were well received by our GMs and we were told that fear was an area they were looking into...I don't see it being as powerful as a Resolve, or a "fall on your knees and wet yourself" but I can see it being a manageable tool to fight against.
I mean really, Resolving creatures doesn't incapacitate them for long - if they are at my level, I can usually do one or two critters for about 5 seconds. If below my level, I can knock down 4-5 for about 10 seconds. About long enough for me to get a few swings in.
Blaayd
I mean really, Resolving creatures doesn't incapacitate them for long - if they are at my level, I can usually do one or two critters for about 5 seconds. If below my level, I can knock down 4-5 for about 10 seconds. About long enough for me to get a few swings in.
Blaayd
>>A fear-induced enchante.
Fear-effects have been planned for a while, creature-wise. Hopefully it'll work a little more interestingly than the Barbarian roars. As a quick aside, I feel Redeemer's Pride should defend against the 'loss of ability' parts of a roar, since the messaging implies it's fear. But anyway...
>>A Resolve-type enchante.
Er... they won't need it. Once enchantes are updated into the magic system (Magic v2.2: the Wrath of Bards!) creatures will be able to use Demrris' Resolve itself. There won't be a need to code up something different for them.
Moral of the story? Fear the Outcast Bards.
- Shavay.
P.S.: Veyl rocks. He's evil, but he still rocks. Let's see s'more Outcasts!
Fear-effects have been planned for a while, creature-wise. Hopefully it'll work a little more interestingly than the Barbarian roars. As a quick aside, I feel Redeemer's Pride should defend against the 'loss of ability' parts of a roar, since the messaging implies it's fear. But anyway...
>>A Resolve-type enchante.
Er... they won't need it. Once enchantes are updated into the magic system (Magic v2.2: the Wrath of Bards!) creatures will be able to use Demrris' Resolve itself. There won't be a need to code up something different for them.
Moral of the story? Fear the Outcast Bards.
- Shavay.
P.S.: Veyl rocks. He's evil, but he still rocks. Let's see s'more Outcasts!
>>A fear-induced enchante.
Only if resistance against it was based on a combination of Discipline and Charisma as major factors, Intelligence and Wisdom as minor ones.
The Discipline reflects how well you keep your wits about you in the presence of that fear, the Charisma shows how well your own "personality projection" acts as a counter to that fear. The intelligent/wise are less likely than the "ignorant" to fall prey to fear tactics. If for no other reason than they know to stay calm and run like hell for a safe haven.
~~~Krin
Only if resistance against it was based on a combination of Discipline and Charisma as major factors, Intelligence and Wisdom as minor ones.
The Discipline reflects how well you keep your wits about you in the presence of that fear, the Charisma shows how well your own "personality projection" acts as a counter to that fear. The intelligent/wise are less likely than the "ignorant" to fall prey to fear tactics. If for no other reason than they know to stay calm and run like hell for a safe haven.
~~~Krin
>>A fear-induced enchante.
>Only if resistance against it was based on a combination of Discipline and Charisma as major factors, Intelligence and Wisdom as minor ones.
Yeah, there will/should be ways to resist it. Training your stats would be one. Being in a group, where a Bard is singing Redeemer's Pride would be another. Lead should help too, but not sure if it does.
>>A resolve-type enchante
>Er... they won't need it. Once enchantes are updated into the magic system (Magic v2.2: the Wrath of Bards!) creatures will be able to use Demrris' Resolve itself. There won't be a need to code up something different for them.
The same, or minor tweaks. Either or is good for me. I was actually thinking the same Song, just different visions when a Critter sings it. Say a thief would have a vision of himself being swarmed and eaten alive by rats, when a critter Resolved him.
>>An anti-Meraud's Blessing
>I can say that walking into a room with this monster, and 'pulsing' away 30-40 <old system> points of my harness would really and seriously piss me off and ruin my day.... not a good thing.
It'll be just like the mana bug in Swamps, only it'll hit you sooner, but at a slower pulse rate than the mana bug. And this would only not be a good thing towards Magic Users. Barbs, Thieves & combat Traders wouldn't even notice it. Much like the mana parasite. & if it's like the Blessing, you have to be in a room for a bit before you feel the pulse. Wandering into a room, shouldn't set it off. But that would be a good twist, nice idea!
>>A critter-type nexus song
>That's like saying 'Critter air... Increases creature oxygen in the room, at the cost of all other oxygen'..
Actually this would be like some Nemmiro Stones. Where they lower one-form of mana & raise another. This song would reduce Life/Holy/Elemental instead of just one form of mana & raise Critter mana. Nothing too new, just in a new package. And there is already an Enchante where mana is raised for all types, save Lunar. So this is just an evil version of it.
Paerr
>Only if resistance against it was based on a combination of Discipline and Charisma as major factors, Intelligence and Wisdom as minor ones.
Yeah, there will/should be ways to resist it. Training your stats would be one. Being in a group, where a Bard is singing Redeemer's Pride would be another. Lead should help too, but not sure if it does.
>>A resolve-type enchante
>Er... they won't need it. Once enchantes are updated into the magic system (Magic v2.2: the Wrath of Bards!) creatures will be able to use Demrris' Resolve itself. There won't be a need to code up something different for them.
The same, or minor tweaks. Either or is good for me. I was actually thinking the same Song, just different visions when a Critter sings it. Say a thief would have a vision of himself being swarmed and eaten alive by rats, when a critter Resolved him.
>>An anti-Meraud's Blessing
>I can say that walking into a room with this monster, and 'pulsing' away 30-40 <old system> points of my harness would really and seriously piss me off and ruin my day.... not a good thing.
It'll be just like the mana bug in Swamps, only it'll hit you sooner, but at a slower pulse rate than the mana bug. And this would only not be a good thing towards Magic Users. Barbs, Thieves & combat Traders wouldn't even notice it. Much like the mana parasite. & if it's like the Blessing, you have to be in a room for a bit before you feel the pulse. Wandering into a room, shouldn't set it off. But that would be a good twist, nice idea!
>>A critter-type nexus song
>That's like saying 'Critter air... Increases creature oxygen in the room, at the cost of all other oxygen'..
Actually this would be like some Nemmiro Stones. Where they lower one-form of mana & raise another. This song would reduce Life/Holy/Elemental instead of just one form of mana & raise Critter mana. Nothing too new, just in a new package. And there is already an Enchante where mana is raised for all types, save Lunar. So this is just an evil version of it.
Paerr
<<Actually this would be like some Nemmiro Stones. Where they lower one-form of mana & raise another. This song would reduce Life/Holy/Elemental instead of just one form of mana & raise Critter mana. Nothing too new, just in a new package. And there is already an Enchante where mana is raised for all types, save Lunar. So this is just an evil version of it.
Creatures won't have evil mana, but use the type that the spells they use use. And since Bards use elemental, their enchante would mostlikely raise elemental mana while lowering the rest.
Yay for Warrior Mages and Bards. Heh.
Thorengil
Creatures won't have evil mana, but use the type that the spells they use use. And since Bards use elemental, their enchante would mostlikely raise elemental mana while lowering the rest.
Yay for Warrior Mages and Bards. Heh.
Thorengil
Just popping in to reiterate that anyone who thinks fear would be a good thing (since you know it'd be used against us in an invasion someday) needs to exercise that 30 day free trial period, and go check out gemstone3 during an undead invasion... Then apply those things here, as you know they would.
Instead of AS/DS negative effects.
We'll get lowered attack/defense.
Immobilization, we'll get that too..
On your knees? We'll get that too..
Stunned from fear? We'll get that too.
Dropping your items on the floor?... Might get that too.
-Trazier, who once left GS and took a vacation here after being feared and losing a very nice weapon...
PS: Lemme say... though I'm pissed at the reason I came here in the first place way back when.... i'm glad I did..... Anyway... fear is bad...
Instead of AS/DS negative effects.
We'll get lowered attack/defense.
Immobilization, we'll get that too..
On your knees? We'll get that too..
Stunned from fear? We'll get that too.
Dropping your items on the floor?... Might get that too.
-Trazier, who once left GS and took a vacation here after being feared and losing a very nice weapon...
PS: Lemme say... though I'm pissed at the reason I came here in the first place way back when.... i'm glad I did..... Anyway... fear is bad...
<<actually that sounds more like confusion and vertigo to me then fear>>
Take it up with the GMs then... Or rather... Soon, with the DR ones, if they port it over from GS.
And though I didn't mention them all, those are the effects, there are plenty of 'flavor' moments involved with fear which kind of look like confusion also...
I'd like to point out how fun it is to see a room of 80 people or so, all having 'flavor text' fear messages (averaging 2-3 lines each) flooding the place in 3 second pulses.
So and so moans pitifully, clutching their head and crying uncontrollably!
Someone below them sobs loudly, eyes panic-stricken with fear.
Someone else rocks back and forth slowly, crying in absolute terror.
(And so on and so on and so on, about 80 or so of these, every 5 seconds or so)
Good, now at the start of that, realize you somehow dropped your weapon and shield because of the fear.
Now, in this massive spam, this massive bunch of people dying around you, there's no way to scroll through all of that, and find who took your shield, all the while the text buffer is rapidly running out and threatening to scroll away the last sighting you had of your marvelous weapon and shield.
I said it once, again, and here's a third.... Fear is bad... It has OOC scrolling issues and outrageous spamming there (GS)... Do you really want it hastily ported over here, so that we can suffer the same?
-Trazier 'I've suffered enough without fear' Zier.
Take it up with the GMs then... Or rather... Soon, with the DR ones, if they port it over from GS.
And though I didn't mention them all, those are the effects, there are plenty of 'flavor' moments involved with fear which kind of look like confusion also...
I'd like to point out how fun it is to see a room of 80 people or so, all having 'flavor text' fear messages (averaging 2-3 lines each) flooding the place in 3 second pulses.
So and so moans pitifully, clutching their head and crying uncontrollably!
Someone below them sobs loudly, eyes panic-stricken with fear.
Someone else rocks back and forth slowly, crying in absolute terror.
(And so on and so on and so on, about 80 or so of these, every 5 seconds or so)
Good, now at the start of that, realize you somehow dropped your weapon and shield because of the fear.
Now, in this massive spam, this massive bunch of people dying around you, there's no way to scroll through all of that, and find who took your shield, all the while the text buffer is rapidly running out and threatening to scroll away the last sighting you had of your marvelous weapon and shield.
I said it once, again, and here's a third.... Fear is bad... It has OOC scrolling issues and outrageous spamming there (GS)... Do you really want it hastily ported over here, so that we can suffer the same?
-Trazier 'I've suffered enough without fear' Zier.
actually they are creatures as is now that cause fear <g> their an invasion creature which I forgot what the "fear" is but its not as horrific as you point it out to be, some kind of assassin I think Faenrea assassin?
I don't know i gotta ask my bardic friend what fear does, I've seen em but can't remember
I don't know i gotta ask my bardic friend what fear does, I've seen em but can't remember
Trazier, your worries seem to be mostly that Fear would be directly ported from Gemstone III. I have read several comments from the GMs on several different subjects. They seem inclined to not repeat any mistakes of Gemstone III, and I'm sure those Fear effects would not be too hard to be considered one of them.
On the other hand, some of them, used selectively, would be appropriate. A simple, not-too-large defensive/offensive penalty for one Fear-type "aura", for example... or more harsher penalties for more specific effects... and less spam!
-Seldaene, who thinks room-wide immobilising fear auras would be in poor taste too
On the other hand, some of them, used selectively, would be appropriate. A simple, not-too-large defensive/offensive penalty for one Fear-type "aura", for example... or more harsher penalties for more specific effects... and less spam!
-Seldaene, who thinks room-wide immobilising fear auras would be in poor taste too
>>On the other hand, some of them, used selectively, would be appropriate. A simple, not-too-large defensive/offensive penalty for one Fear-type "aura", for example... or more harsher penalties for more specific effects... and less spam!
Maybe if you run randomly a few rooms away, kind of like companions when a barb roars...if I was scared I sure wouldn't want to lose my weapon and shield, they'd be my only defense, I'd have a death grip on them...I would sure want to hitail away though.
~Daergoth
Maybe if you run randomly a few rooms away, kind of like companions when a barb roars...if I was scared I sure wouldn't want to lose my weapon and shield, they'd be my only defense, I'd have a death grip on them...I would sure want to hitail away though.
~Daergoth
<<Good point, unless you were scared utterly senseless.>>
No.... at that point, i'd take off at a fast run in the opposite direction, screaming and yelling all the way, swinging my sword wildly behind me without even looking to pierce the Creature Of Destruction(tm) that I know would be fast on my heels, and probably not look back until my heart almost explodes.
Nothing short of Urrem'tier materializing before me, burning my eyeballs out for daring to look on his divine shadowform, while a deafening voice booms out "FOOL!!!! HOW DARE YOU LOOK UPON MY VISAGE WITHOUT SHOWING HUMILITY!!! YOU WILL BE HUMBLE BEFORE MY ALLMIGHTY POWER!" Would cause me to sink to my knees, and drop my weapon and shield..... Because right about then, I'd know i'm dead anyway.
Anything else after me?...
-Trazier ...ka-pwing! Zier... and his trailing dust cloud.
No.... at that point, i'd take off at a fast run in the opposite direction, screaming and yelling all the way, swinging my sword wildly behind me without even looking to pierce the Creature Of Destruction(tm) that I know would be fast on my heels, and probably not look back until my heart almost explodes.
Nothing short of Urrem'tier materializing before me, burning my eyeballs out for daring to look on his divine shadowform, while a deafening voice booms out "FOOL!!!! HOW DARE YOU LOOK UPON MY VISAGE WITHOUT SHOWING HUMILITY!!! YOU WILL BE HUMBLE BEFORE MY ALLMIGHTY POWER!" Would cause me to sink to my knees, and drop my weapon and shield..... Because right about then, I'd know i'm dead anyway.
Anything else after me?...
-Trazier ...ka-pwing! Zier... and his trailing dust cloud.
>>I sure wouldn't want to lose my weapon and shield, they'd be my only defense, I'd have a death grip on them.
>Good point, unless you were scared utterly senseless.
You can have my weapon and shield when you pry them from my cold, dead hands, and not before!
Kyn, paraphrasing a common quote.
>Good point, unless you were scared utterly senseless.
You can have my weapon and shield when you pry them from my cold, dead hands, and not before!
Kyn, paraphrasing a common quote.
>So and so moans pitifully, clutching their head and crying uncontrollably! Someone below them sobs loudly, eyes panic-stricken with fear. Someone else rocks back and forth slowly, crying in absolute terror. (And so on and so on and so on, about 80 or so of these, every 5 seconds or so)
>Good, now at the start of that, realize you somehow dropped your weapon and shield because of the fear.
Sounds like fun! Just limit the scroll, but hey it sounds like a blast. We need some critters with this, give them some teeth!
>Good, now at the start of that, realize you somehow dropped your weapon and shield because of the fear.
Sounds like fun! Just limit the scroll, but hey it sounds like a blast. We need some critters with this, give them some teeth!
>Maybe if you run randomly a few rooms away, kind of like companions when a barb roars...if I was scared I sure wouldn't want to lose my weapon and shield, they'd be my only defense, I'd have a death grip on them...I would sure want to hitail away though.
Actually, fear (extreme panic) seems to work in different ways. Sometimes they'll run with a death grip on their weapons. Sometimes they'll throw everything down & curl up in a fetal position. Sometimes they'll throw the weapons on the ground & run. & sometimes they'll just freeze, not moving an inch until they die. & sometimes they'll go berzerk, attacking anybody next to them (friend or foe).
That's if you can't control it. If you can, it can help you focus on your task.
Paerr
Actually, fear (extreme panic) seems to work in different ways. Sometimes they'll run with a death grip on their weapons. Sometimes they'll throw everything down & curl up in a fetal position. Sometimes they'll throw the weapons on the ground & run. & sometimes they'll just freeze, not moving an inch until they die. & sometimes they'll go berzerk, attacking anybody next to them (friend or foe).
That's if you can't control it. If you can, it can help you focus on your task.
Paerr
