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Shadewatch Mirror (This one should be obvious)
Earth Sense/Revelation (Both are magical location)
-Frogspawn
>>Much like a 70th circle War Mage should be able to break through a 20th circle War Mage's Aether Cloak, a 70th circle Moon Mage should be able to break through a 20th circle War Mage's Aether Cloak. And the result would be far less painful ;P
We're not talking about combat spells or balance.
We're talking about not being able to be located. This can be accomplished with the <HIDE> verb.
The only checks should be whether or not the mage has the spell, and whether or not the mage can cast the spell.
-Frogspawn
We're not talking about combat spells or balance.
We're talking about not being able to be located. This can be accomplished with the <HIDE> verb.
The only checks should be whether or not the mage has the spell, and whether or not the mage can cast the spell.
-Frogspawn
We're talking about not being able to be located. This can be accomplished with the <HIDE> verb.
The only checks should be whether or not the mage has the spell, and whether or not the mage can cast the spell.
Well, if I agreed with the whole 'can't be located while hidden' idea in DR, I'd agree with you. But I don't. I've always thought that just because someone is behind a tree, doesn't mean that magical powers would be able to scrye their location.
That is where AC would come in, to ensure that you aren't located/found. However, if you are some young mage, a super high level mage should be able to break through and find you. Seems logical.
Anyway, it's not that big of deal. I don't think people run around trying to mirror war mages all the time. And yes, the mirror should be affected like locate is.
Eldrad
The only checks should be whether or not the mage has the spell, and whether or not the mage can cast the spell.
Well, if I agreed with the whole 'can't be located while hidden' idea in DR, I'd agree with you. But I don't. I've always thought that just because someone is behind a tree, doesn't mean that magical powers would be able to scrye their location.
That is where AC would come in, to ensure that you aren't located/found. However, if you are some young mage, a super high level mage should be able to break through and find you. Seems logical.
Anyway, it's not that big of deal. I don't think people run around trying to mirror war mages all the time. And yes, the mirror should be affected like locate is.
Eldrad
Revelation does not operate like Shadewatch Mirror or Locate. It doesn't reveal the individual's physical form, it shows you their soul in very vague detail. I don't agree that Aether Cloak would prevent that, unless it's gonna prevent Vigil, Rejuve, and Cleric power perception of other people.
Lainn
Lainn
>>Revelation does not operate like Shadewatch Mirror or Locate. It doesn't reveal the individual's physical form, it shows you their soul in very vague detail.
>>The Aether Cloak spell renders the caster difficult to locate magically, and tends to weaken targeted magic spells. It lasts as long as you hold the mana for it, which means if you cast another spell, your cloak will fall.
The spell renders the caster difficult to locate magically.
The spell doesn't render the caster's physical body difficult to locate but their soul out in the open. It interferes with the magic that allows the mage to be located.
-Frogspawn
>>The Aether Cloak spell renders the caster difficult to locate magically, and tends to weaken targeted magic spells. It lasts as long as you hold the mana for it, which means if you cast another spell, your cloak will fall.
The spell renders the caster difficult to locate magically.
The spell doesn't render the caster's physical body difficult to locate but their soul out in the open. It interferes with the magic that allows the mage to be located.
-Frogspawn
Revelation allows clerics to see a persons spirit. If Aether cloak eliminates a persons spirit, then I have no problem with Revelation not affecting it.
Of course what either you or I think regarding Aether cloak vs revelation doesn't matter. But I think if you are concerned about Revelation you have too much time on your hands, Revelation allows a cleric to know if someone invisible is in a room, and thats about it, can't target them, can't knock them out- we don't even have an area affect spell that we can use on the person.
Flavius
Of course what either you or I think regarding Aether cloak vs revelation doesn't matter. But I think if you are concerned about Revelation you have too much time on your hands, Revelation allows a cleric to know if someone invisible is in a room, and thats about it, can't target them, can't knock them out- we don't even have an area affect spell that we can use on the person.
Flavius
>>Revelation allows clerics to see a persons spirit. If Aether cloak eliminates a persons spirit, then I have no problem with Revelation not affecting it.
Locate allows a moonie to see a person. Aether cloak doesn't eliminate the person. If you need proof, type <LOOK PERSON> when they have AC up. They will still be there.
<capital letters mean i'm right>
THE AETHER CLOAK DOES NOT GET RID OF A PERSON, IT INTERFERES WITH THE MAGIC THAT ALLOWS THEM TO BE LOCATED.
/<capital letters mean i'm right>
-Frogspawn
Locate allows a moonie to see a person. Aether cloak doesn't eliminate the person. If you need proof, type <LOOK PERSON> when they have AC up. They will still be there.
<capital letters mean i'm right>
THE AETHER CLOAK DOES NOT GET RID OF A PERSON, IT INTERFERES WITH THE MAGIC THAT ALLOWS THEM TO BE LOCATED.
/<capital letters mean i'm right>
-Frogspawn
>>THE AETHER CLOAK DOES NOT GET RID OF A PERSON, IT INTERFERES WITH THE MAGIC THAT ALLOWS THEM TO BE LOCATED.<<
Aether Cloak prevents location magic from being cast AT you. It does not prevent the ambient effects of location magic.
If you are covered in Aether Cloak and someone casts Locate at a person standing next to you in the same room, you will still show up in the description. If you have Aether Cloak and walk past someone affected by Shadewatch Mirror, people watching the mirror will see you. In short the spell prevents location magic from centering on you; it does not make you undetectable if you happen to be in a room where one is cast.
Revelation centers on the caster and allows her to see spirits walking past. If you happen to be one of those spirits, she will see you.
I can't speak for Earth Sense but since I think there is 0% chance to magically resist that spell the same is probably true.
Lainn
Aether Cloak prevents location magic from being cast AT you. It does not prevent the ambient effects of location magic.
If you are covered in Aether Cloak and someone casts Locate at a person standing next to you in the same room, you will still show up in the description. If you have Aether Cloak and walk past someone affected by Shadewatch Mirror, people watching the mirror will see you. In short the spell prevents location magic from centering on you; it does not make you undetectable if you happen to be in a room where one is cast.
Revelation centers on the caster and allows her to see spirits walking past. If you happen to be one of those spirits, she will see you.
I can't speak for Earth Sense but since I think there is 0% chance to magically resist that spell the same is probably true.
Lainn
<<I can't speak for Earth Sense but since I think there is 0% chance to magically resist that spell the same is probably true.
Lainn >>
I'm not trying to add fuel to the fire, but did want to clear up an apparent misconception. The current version of Earth Sense does provide a modest boost to Perception skill, but will not automatically reveal everyone in Hiding to the caster. It is possible to remain either completely hidden, or shown but not pointable based on the skill of the Hider.
Heironymous
Lainn >>
I'm not trying to add fuel to the fire, but did want to clear up an apparent misconception. The current version of Earth Sense does provide a modest boost to Perception skill, but will not automatically reveal everyone in Hiding to the caster. It is possible to remain either completely hidden, or shown but not pointable based on the skill of the Hider.
Heironymous
<<I can't speak for Earth Sense but since I think there is 0% chance to magically resist that spell the same is probably true.
Lainn >>
>>I'm not trying to add fuel to the fire, but did want to clear up an apparent misconception. The current version of Earth Sense does provide a modest boost to Perception skill, but will not automatically reveal everyone in Hiding to the caster. It is possible to remain either completely hidden, or shown but not pointable based on the skill of the Hider.<<
Hmm, I didn't mean it's not possible to resist. I meant the magic resistance of the hider is not a consideration in whether she is spotted or not. Does casting Earth Sense trigger Inner Fire? (I know Revelation doesn't.)
Lainn
Lainn >>
>>I'm not trying to add fuel to the fire, but did want to clear up an apparent misconception. The current version of Earth Sense does provide a modest boost to Perception skill, but will not automatically reveal everyone in Hiding to the caster. It is possible to remain either completely hidden, or shown but not pointable based on the skill of the Hider.<<
Hmm, I didn't mean it's not possible to resist. I meant the magic resistance of the hider is not a consideration in whether she is spotted or not. Does casting Earth Sense trigger Inner Fire? (I know Revelation doesn't.)
Lainn
Aether cloak should protect from SHM if the SHM is focused on you, but not if SHM was cast before you put AC up
and as for revelation, revelation is cast on the caster not the room or the person AC should not block it because AC only affects centered on the person?
and as for the question of why would a person with AC on be affected by the ambient affects of an area cast, well I don't know why doesn't shear stun the caster of an area affect spell, why is it that while your hiding I can't cast at you, but an area affect spell will hit you? are you not protected in hiding? then how come your hit?
spells centered on you work differently then spells coursing through an area
and as for revelation, revelation is cast on the caster not the room or the person AC should not block it because AC only affects centered on the person?
and as for the question of why would a person with AC on be affected by the ambient affects of an area cast, well I don't know why doesn't shear stun the caster of an area affect spell, why is it that while your hiding I can't cast at you, but an area affect spell will hit you? are you not protected in hiding? then how come your hit?
spells centered on you work differently then spells coursing through an area
Well, I can't speak for how exactly aether cloak works now, but when it was spirit cloak the way it worked at least was preventing magical location by the very means of hiding your soul. Hence the spirit damage you incured (which was, I think, removed because Clerics have are to have sole dominion over spirit damage). The visusal side-effect of solid-black eyes might have had something to do with the idea that the eyes are the windows to the soul- who knows?
So, as far as revelation goes, if Aether Cloak works anything like it did as Spirit Cloak, that is to say it still obscures the mage's soul, even if it no longer does soul damage, then I would think revelation of all spells would be most useless against one.
so... does it?
-Robert
So, as far as revelation goes, if Aether Cloak works anything like it did as Spirit Cloak, that is to say it still obscures the mage's soul, even if it no longer does soul damage, then I would think revelation of all spells would be most useless against one.
so... does it?
-Robert
All spirit related effects were removed from the spell because soul is the sole domain of clerics, along with Paladins. It has everything to do with aether now. Honestly, locating is locating and revelation is designed to locate people, directly or indirectly.
In this case I feel design and purpose of the aether cloak spell outweighs the technicalities of the location spells. Aether cloak is meant to preserve our privacy and help defend against targeted magic. It's meant to prevent us from being located by magic, no matter what way said magic attempts to find us.
In this case I feel design and purpose of the aether cloak spell outweighs the technicalities of the location spells. Aether cloak is meant to preserve our privacy and help defend against targeted magic. It's meant to prevent us from being located by magic, no matter what way said magic attempts to find us.
>"All spirit related effects were removed from the spell because soul is the sole domain of clerics, along with Paladins. It has everything to do with aether now."
This just makes me randomly curious as to what an aether cloak conceals that interferes with target matrixes and distance spell targeting, while remaining transparant to moon mage/cleric targeted perception and magically enhanced awareness.
This looks like a job for the Aether Cabal!
-Robert, the bored
This just makes me randomly curious as to what an aether cloak conceals that interferes with target matrixes and distance spell targeting, while remaining transparant to moon mage/cleric targeted perception and magically enhanced awareness.
This looks like a job for the Aether Cabal!
-Robert, the bored
"It's meant to prevent us from being located by magic, no matter what way said magic attempts to find us. "
This will obviously be decided by the GM's not us players, but since you are argueing your position, I will argue the clerics position:
Aether cloak is designed to prevent locational magic from finding them- but active location magic not passive. I haven't seen every discussion on it, but does it prevent any perception boosting spell? Because what Revelation does is boost perception, including allowing a cleric to perceive spirits- which are always there, but normal characters cannot see.
I see it as the differance between active and passive sonar. Active sonar involves transmitting a sound to bounce off of a target and thereby 'locate' them. Stealth material can lesson the 'bounce' and therefore make active sonar less effective. Passive sonar detects the sounds from the target- these sounds are present whether or not someone is listening for them. Stealth material doesn't effect the sound once it is made by a target.
Likewise Revelation allows a cleric to attempt to see the spirits of those in a room- the spirits are always there with the character, the spell merely allows us to see them. Unless aether cloak actually hides the spirit it shouldn't have any effect on Revelation.
We actually have a problem with the fact that people with superior hiding skills can hide their spirits from us. Seems rather dubious to me that someone would know how to hide their spirit- but that was put in so it would be a skill vs skill spell, no matter how contrary it seems to the 'spirit' of the spell.
Flavius
This will obviously be decided by the GM's not us players, but since you are argueing your position, I will argue the clerics position:
Aether cloak is designed to prevent locational magic from finding them- but active location magic not passive. I haven't seen every discussion on it, but does it prevent any perception boosting spell? Because what Revelation does is boost perception, including allowing a cleric to perceive spirits- which are always there, but normal characters cannot see.
I see it as the differance between active and passive sonar. Active sonar involves transmitting a sound to bounce off of a target and thereby 'locate' them. Stealth material can lesson the 'bounce' and therefore make active sonar less effective. Passive sonar detects the sounds from the target- these sounds are present whether or not someone is listening for them. Stealth material doesn't effect the sound once it is made by a target.
Likewise Revelation allows a cleric to attempt to see the spirits of those in a room- the spirits are always there with the character, the spell merely allows us to see them. Unless aether cloak actually hides the spirit it shouldn't have any effect on Revelation.
We actually have a problem with the fact that people with superior hiding skills can hide their spirits from us. Seems rather dubious to me that someone would know how to hide their spirit- but that was put in so it would be a skill vs skill spell, no matter how contrary it seems to the 'spirit' of the spell.
Flavius
....
Ok, first of all, Revelation sucks anyway, why are we arguing if AC should protect us against it? Who cares. The amount of things a cleric can do with the information they get out of it...isnt anything worthwhile.
So, that leaves us with the other bugs Frogspawn posted. The #1 of which is AE. WHY oh WHY does AC not protect against this? Did the Cleric GM go "Ohh...I think I'll make my spell not able to be defended against, because, well, I said so..." or something?
This is getting old. Its been brought up since the spell was released and it needs fixed already.
Irrad
Ok, first of all, Revelation sucks anyway, why are we arguing if AC should protect us against it? Who cares. The amount of things a cleric can do with the information they get out of it...isnt anything worthwhile.
So, that leaves us with the other bugs Frogspawn posted. The #1 of which is AE. WHY oh WHY does AC not protect against this? Did the Cleric GM go "Ohh...I think I'll make my spell not able to be defended against, because, well, I said so..." or something?
This is getting old. Its been brought up since the spell was released and it needs fixed already.
Irrad
>So, that leaves us with the other bugs Frogspawn posted. The #1 of which is AE. WHY oh WHY does AC not protect against this? Did the Cleric GM go "Ohh...I think I'll make my spell not able to be defended against, because, well, I said so..." or something?
Yes that's exactly what he said.
AE = death from above semi TM spell. AE != HE/FS or any other pure targetted spell.
If AC protects against LB, then it should protect against AE. Otherwise, shouldn't.
>Ok, first of all, Revelation sucks anyway, why are we arguing if AC should protect us against it? Who cares. The amount of things a cleric can do with the information they get out of it...isnt anything worthwhile.
Wait until Saturday when we (hopefully) get Chill Spirit, then you might want to rethink that statement.
- Master Cleric of Harawep
Yes that's exactly what he said.
AE = death from above semi TM spell. AE != HE/FS or any other pure targetted spell.
If AC protects against LB, then it should protect against AE. Otherwise, shouldn't.
>Ok, first of all, Revelation sucks anyway, why are we arguing if AC should protect us against it? Who cares. The amount of things a cleric can do with the information they get out of it...isnt anything worthwhile.
Wait until Saturday when we (hopefully) get Chill Spirit, then you might want to rethink that statement.
- Master Cleric of Harawep
<<AE = death from above semi TM spell. AE != HE/FS or any other pure targetted spell.
If AC protects against LB, then it should protect against AE. Otherwise, shouldn't.>>
AC protects against LB. AC protects against Burn. (Both DFA). AC protects against SLS. AC protects against Fire Rain. AC Protects against any other TM/TM like spell you can think of... except AE.
Glaring bug? Yes. Done on purpose? Who knows! Want it fixed? Yesterday please.
Irrad
If AC protects against LB, then it should protect against AE. Otherwise, shouldn't.>>
AC protects against LB. AC protects against Burn. (Both DFA). AC protects against SLS. AC protects against Fire Rain. AC Protects against any other TM/TM like spell you can think of... except AE.
Glaring bug? Yes. Done on purpose? Who knows! Want it fixed? Yesterday please.
Irrad
the reason Aether Cloak does not protect against AE is when a cleric cast AE it wraps his target with a bit of his own spirit to form a beacon for the bolts to hit. It is not a spell like lightning bolt or burn that one just cast. Casting it comes with a penalty to the caster. It hits his spirit to cast. I have seen clerics die from repeated castings of it. The reasonin for the spell ignorin AC is probably just because ye basically got wraped in a shroud made of the cleric's spirit. think of it as him wrappin holy energy and his spirit around you to turn ye into a BIG BULLS EYE for the spell.....
Cadderrly
Cadderrly
<<the reason Aether Cloak does not protect against AE is when a cleric cast AE it wraps his target with a bit of his own spirit to form a beacon for the bolts to hit. It is not a spell like lightning bolt or burn that one just cast. Casting it comes with a penalty to the caster. It hits his spirit to cast. I have seen clerics die from repeated castings of it. The reasonin for the spell ignorin AC is probably just because ye basically got wraped in a shroud made of the cleric's spirit. think of it as him wrappin holy energy and his spirit around you to turn ye into a BIG BULLS EYE for the spell.....
Cadderrly>>
Care to point me to a GM post so I can rip that bull logic to shreds please?
Irrad
Cadderrly>>
Care to point me to a GM post so I can rip that bull logic to shreds please?
Irrad
>Care to point me to a GM post so I can rip that bull logic to shreds please?
Nah he's wrong Irrad.
Here's the offical spellbook description:
The Aesrela Everild spell will transmute a portion of your spirit energy into a physical force, manifesting as deadly bolts of flame that will rain destruction upon your intended foe. Both the strength of your spirit and your skill in targeted magic will bolster the spell's effectiveness. Take great care with this spell pattern -- the more mana you feed it with, the more bolts it spawns, and the more spirit energy it will expend!
- Master Cleric of Harawep
Nah he's wrong Irrad.
Here's the offical spellbook description:
The Aesrela Everild spell will transmute a portion of your spirit energy into a physical force, manifesting as deadly bolts of flame that will rain destruction upon your intended foe. Both the strength of your spirit and your skill in targeted magic will bolster the spell's effectiveness. Take great care with this spell pattern -- the more mana you feed it with, the more bolts it spawns, and the more spirit energy it will expend!
- Master Cleric of Harawep
AC protecting against AE ultimately comes to one conclusion, it should.
If you desire to look at it from a standard view of AE is a TM hybrid spell it should protect.
If you desire to look at it from the wrapping of soul view... So you slap a lil piece of your soul around mine but the individual blasts still have to go from point a to point b, namely by targeting the soul piece. AC disrupts magical targeting; therefore, it's a very small leap in logic to say that AC should protect.
If you desire to look at it from a clerics are special view. I hide my snicker from you and still say it should protect.
Ok ok... the topic of the wrapping of soul... If AE has TM removed from the equation and make the spell description to where the AE blasts are attracted to soul it's fine with me. Of course for every blast that lil piece on me attracts you'll get a dozen or so.
As far as AC and being magically located concerns. AC isn't stealth technology. It turns a known into an unknown. On a locate cast on a person in the room if somebody has AC up they should just show up as some blank or at least unclear area. Go smear generous vaseline on half of your camera lens and take a picture of yourself and a friend. Bet you'll have no idea who the person on the smeared side is.
Same concept goes for revelation... a magic runs through the area with the intent of returning the colors of the souls in the area. You as the casting cleric should either get nothing detected, a "smudged" reading, or the full thing.
Throwing together some skill checks or having AC automatically make you magically undetectable are really the only options if the wording behind the spell is to hold true.
Majebrad
If you desire to look at it from a standard view of AE is a TM hybrid spell it should protect.
If you desire to look at it from the wrapping of soul view... So you slap a lil piece of your soul around mine but the individual blasts still have to go from point a to point b, namely by targeting the soul piece. AC disrupts magical targeting; therefore, it's a very small leap in logic to say that AC should protect.
If you desire to look at it from a clerics are special view. I hide my snicker from you and still say it should protect.
Ok ok... the topic of the wrapping of soul... If AE has TM removed from the equation and make the spell description to where the AE blasts are attracted to soul it's fine with me. Of course for every blast that lil piece on me attracts you'll get a dozen or so.
As far as AC and being magically located concerns. AC isn't stealth technology. It turns a known into an unknown. On a locate cast on a person in the room if somebody has AC up they should just show up as some blank or at least unclear area. Go smear generous vaseline on half of your camera lens and take a picture of yourself and a friend. Bet you'll have no idea who the person on the smeared side is.
Same concept goes for revelation... a magic runs through the area with the intent of returning the colors of the souls in the area. You as the casting cleric should either get nothing detected, a "smudged" reading, or the full thing.
Throwing together some skill checks or having AC automatically make you magically undetectable are really the only options if the wording behind the spell is to hold true.
Majebrad
Your wrong Majebrod- Revelation doesn't affect the area- it affects the cleric. With your reasoning, a barbarian would be able to resist revelation, and they can't.
Revelation allows a cleric to perceive what is in the room- it modifies the clerics ability to perceive, it does not send out beams of magic to perceive spirits.
Not sure why AC doesn't protect against AE- there are clerics who have posted that AE is worthless against it. Of course this is purely a PvP issue and supposedly no decisions are based upon PvP issues
Flavius
Revelation allows a cleric to perceive what is in the room- it modifies the clerics ability to perceive, it does not send out beams of magic to perceive spirits.
Not sure why AC doesn't protect against AE- there are clerics who have posted that AE is worthless against it. Of course this is purely a PvP issue and supposedly no decisions are based upon PvP issues
Flavius
>Not sure why AC doesn't protect against AE- there are clerics who have posted that AE is worthless against it. Of course this is purely a PvP issue and supposedly no decisions are based upon PvP issues
Incorrect. It's a consistency issue. AE is a TM hybrid spell. AC protects against all TM hybrid spells except AE, with no real explanation given.
Kalyn
Incorrect. It's a consistency issue. AE is a TM hybrid spell. AC protects against all TM hybrid spells except AE, with no real explanation given.
Kalyn
