Previous Thread
Previous
Expand All
Collapse All
Ignore Author
Reply
Well you are right it doesn't, but then again the horse system has been at a stand still for awhile. Who knows where it is going.
~Tonet, yours in life and death, for need or want.
Group riding :)
One of the biggest deterrents to owning a horse currently is that you have to travel alone. I recall RPing a mounted progression with the Prince and many assorted mounted folks to Horse Clan. What a nightmare.
We couldn't keep together, we had to dismount to deal with attacks from the critters, and I couldn't help thinking throughout "You know, anyone who does this has the highest possible dedication to staying in character, because there's absolutely no reason to do with this otherwise, and plenty of reasons not to."
---Brett
One of the biggest deterrents to owning a horse currently is that you have to travel alone. I recall RPing a mounted progression with the Prince and many assorted mounted folks to Horse Clan. What a nightmare.
We couldn't keep together, we had to dismount to deal with attacks from the critters, and I couldn't help thinking throughout "You know, anyone who does this has the highest possible dedication to staying in character, because there's absolutely no reason to do with this otherwise, and plenty of reasons not to."
---Brett
I like your suggestions.Currently for non-paladins horses are just expensive fluff.If animal lore is opened to everyone i expect to see some sort of bond with my horse.Non paladins horses should fight with their owners if their owners are mounted.paladin horses should be able to fight beside their owners.
While i understand anyones desire to keep things to their guild.I believe that we have gone to far into restricting based on guild and it is time for common sense things to be opened to all guild and very special and unique skills and abilities to become guild only(like the divine bond you suggested,thouhg i would also include clerics in this bond since i am a cleric).
Overall i liked the suggestion and just want my horse to be something i use instead of something i keep in a stable
While i understand anyones desire to keep things to their guild.I believe that we have gone to far into restricting based on guild and it is time for common sense things to be opened to all guild and very special and unique skills and abilities to become guild only(like the divine bond you suggested,thouhg i would also include clerics in this bond since i am a cleric).
Overall i liked the suggestion and just want my horse to be something i use instead of something i keep in a stable
I also like the idea that a warhorse for a non-paladin should be something unusual, not something everyone gets with every horse.
Most horses will not fight. This takes either the perfect temperament, intense and early training, or both. Frankly, it also takes the right breeds. Most workhorses are too docile and lower in intellect (and I love all breeds. Don't take this wrong, you Clydesdale lovers, this is a proven fact of the breed) to ever be proper warhorses.
I'd like to see horses divided up more into breeds and purposes in DR, and this could be one reason why.
---Brett
Most horses will not fight. This takes either the perfect temperament, intense and early training, or both. Frankly, it also takes the right breeds. Most workhorses are too docile and lower in intellect (and I love all breeds. Don't take this wrong, you Clydesdale lovers, this is a proven fact of the breed) to ever be proper warhorses.
I'd like to see horses divided up more into breeds and purposes in DR, and this could be one reason why.
---Brett
<<Non paladins horses should fight with their owners if their owners are mounted.paladin horses should be able to fight beside their owners.>>
If you honestly think this will make your horses useful, you haven't seen a Paladin's warhorse fighting.
Absolutely bloody worthless.
Drongol's Player
PC also stands for "Paying Customer."
If you honestly think this will make your horses useful, you haven't seen a Paladin's warhorse fighting.
Absolutely bloody worthless.
Drongol's Player
PC also stands for "Paying Customer."
If you don't ride a horse, then you don't own a horse now. How is that an issue? That and DR PCs are the cream of the crop of Elanthia's population. So the upper crust of society rode horses. Guess what? We ARE that upper crust.
It is true they did not all fight so then we look at the breeds idea that Brett posted or more work involved in training them. How about you post a suggestion instead of "I don't want to share" even if it would benefit everyone?
It is true they did not all fight so then we look at the breeds idea that Brett posted or more work involved in training them. How about you post a suggestion instead of "I don't want to share" even if it would benefit everyone?
<<How about you post a suggestion instead of "I don't want to share" even if it would benefit everyone?>>
I dont see how it benefits me or anyone else who spent many, many, hours bonding our horses. This is what is going to happen, horse combat goes to all, then people start whining about bond times. (Which i hear is going to be under consideration anyway.) Then horses are common and people would seem out of the norm to fight with out one.
~Tonet, yours in life and death, for need or want.
I dont see how it benefits me or anyone else who spent many, many, hours bonding our horses. This is what is going to happen, horse combat goes to all, then people start whining about bond times. (Which i hear is going to be under consideration anyway.) Then horses are common and people would seem out of the norm to fight with out one.
~Tonet, yours in life and death, for need or want.
Draconianzealot,
In general I greatly like your ideas I have very simalar opinions about horses.
"I like the cut of your jib"
These idea IMO are a good direction or indicator of horses potenial, not sure that when put under indepth GM scrutiny they would stackup in game balance/resources. Would be awesome to see that direction taken though.
And yes Brett, group riding is a must along with saddle bags.
Ta
Wodie
In general I greatly like your ideas I have very simalar opinions about horses.
"I like the cut of your jib"
These idea IMO are a good direction or indicator of horses potenial, not sure that when put under indepth GM scrutiny they would stackup in game balance/resources. Would be awesome to see that direction taken though.
And yes Brett, group riding is a must along with saddle bags.
Ta
Wodie
>>>I dont see how it benefits me or anyone else who spent many, many, hours bonding our horses. This is what is going to happen, horse combat goes to all, then people start whining about bond times. (Which i hear is going to be under consideration anyway.) Then horses are common and people would seem out of the norm to fight with out one.
Yeesh... what a selfish reply. You spent hours bonding your horse with a broken system so you would rather keep it broken than fix it because then people wouldn't have as hard a time as you. First, if the bond is fixed, then you'll have an idea if what you are doing helps or hurts the bond and be able to see how much further you have to go on your next ability. Second, if there is a new paladin-only ability instead of this cheap one, you get automatic full normal bond plus an easier to work bond for a horse that is vastly superior to the others.
Even if other guilds have horses, they still have to deal with dismounting to skin/search stuff and horses that spook. Paladin horses would eventually become immune to fear. If we incorporate the breeds idea and the difficulty in training a horse (such as purchasing them as foals and raising them like one does a ranger companion while training them), then the time investment is going to be a turn off for people. Also if you make the breeds rare. For paladins, you could say the divine bond quest transforms any mundane horse into a warhorse breed so we do not have that restriction.
There are ways to balance out horse combat and its frequency besides restricting it to suit someone's ego.
Yeesh... what a selfish reply. You spent hours bonding your horse with a broken system so you would rather keep it broken than fix it because then people wouldn't have as hard a time as you. First, if the bond is fixed, then you'll have an idea if what you are doing helps or hurts the bond and be able to see how much further you have to go on your next ability. Second, if there is a new paladin-only ability instead of this cheap one, you get automatic full normal bond plus an easier to work bond for a horse that is vastly superior to the others.
Even if other guilds have horses, they still have to deal with dismounting to skin/search stuff and horses that spook. Paladin horses would eventually become immune to fear. If we incorporate the breeds idea and the difficulty in training a horse (such as purchasing them as foals and raising them like one does a ranger companion while training them), then the time investment is going to be a turn off for people. Also if you make the breeds rare. For paladins, you could say the divine bond quest transforms any mundane horse into a warhorse breed so we do not have that restriction.
There are ways to balance out horse combat and its frequency besides restricting it to suit someone's ego.
One thing to keep in mind currently war horses stink. They just have lots of problems which were outlined above. Now we have a few options one keep war horses Paladin only or open up war horses.
1) Paladin only- Optimally this would be the best option but its condemns war horses to always stink. If War horses are Paladin only and War horses are not under the control of the Paladin guild then said GM will have zero incentive to write anything worthwhile for war horses.(Just look at the original GM who wrote horses he is well renowned for his excellent system but wrote junk for war horses because there was no incentive to write a decent system). In short a Paladin system that is not under the control of the Paladin GM will equal a junk system. One can name several systems that are like this.
2) Open it up- Not optimal but will actually make war horses good because the GM who will work on horses will actually write good stuff for war horses because everyone will benefit.
It sucks but unless a GM with Paladin interests at heart is willing to take over the war horse part of the system I would rather open it up to everyone and actually use my horse rather then just let it sit in the stable cause it can't go half the places I hunt and fighting from the saddle stinks and fighting beside my horses is scary because it might run away because it sees a butterfly and magically throw off all its tack.
1) Paladin only- Optimally this would be the best option but its condemns war horses to always stink. If War horses are Paladin only and War horses are not under the control of the Paladin guild then said GM will have zero incentive to write anything worthwhile for war horses.(Just look at the original GM who wrote horses he is well renowned for his excellent system but wrote junk for war horses because there was no incentive to write a decent system). In short a Paladin system that is not under the control of the Paladin GM will equal a junk system. One can name several systems that are like this.
2) Open it up- Not optimal but will actually make war horses good because the GM who will work on horses will actually write good stuff for war horses because everyone will benefit.
It sucks but unless a GM with Paladin interests at heart is willing to take over the war horse part of the system I would rather open it up to everyone and actually use my horse rather then just let it sit in the stable cause it can't go half the places I hunt and fighting from the saddle stinks and fighting beside my horses is scary because it might run away because it sees a butterfly and magically throw off all its tack.
Well, some of us don't circle, so some of us don't have grab, advanced riding. ::grins:: Of course, I've always been against horses being a guild/circle thing anyway. I still don't understand why I have to be a 40th circle barbarian to know how to get my horse to know which direction I want it to go in when galloping.
However, my suggestion is, make perks for guilds, but let many of the "core" things, which is basically everything that can be trained right now, be open to everyone, ::coughs:: regardless of circle or guild. Yes, I think paladins should be better jousters. yes, I think Barbarians and rangers should be able to teach load. Those are special things that DO requare training that is something you theoretically learn better while in you guild. However, the mundane things make no sense. Also, its possible to get a horse to fight. I'm not a pally IRL, but I can get a horse to buck and kick on command. Granted, its not FUN, but its possible.
~Ambassador Viptorian Arcinian
"Gor'Tog is not stupid. He is slow in mind, but he keep thinking until he get answer or he ask someone who knows. He always get answer somehow, or else answer not matter anyway."
~Aunt Olma's Tog Story
However, my suggestion is, make perks for guilds, but let many of the "core" things, which is basically everything that can be trained right now, be open to everyone, ::coughs:: regardless of circle or guild. Yes, I think paladins should be better jousters. yes, I think Barbarians and rangers should be able to teach load. Those are special things that DO requare training that is something you theoretically learn better while in you guild. However, the mundane things make no sense. Also, its possible to get a horse to fight. I'm not a pally IRL, but I can get a horse to buck and kick on command. Granted, its not FUN, but its possible.
~Ambassador Viptorian Arcinian
"Gor'Tog is not stupid. He is slow in mind, but he keep thinking until he get answer or he ask someone who knows. He always get answer somehow, or else answer not matter anyway."
~Aunt Olma's Tog Story
<<I'm not a pally IRL, but I can get a horse to buck and kick on command. Granted, its not FUN, but its possible.>>
While I am more in the camp of opening it up saying a trained war horse is nothing more then getting a horse to buck or kick on demand I think sadly unestimates what a trained war horse is.
While I am more in the camp of opening it up saying a trained war horse is nothing more then getting a horse to buck or kick on demand I think sadly unestimates what a trained war horse is.
Warhorses are pointless. Mine can hit critters much lower than what I hunt, thats all. She can't even hit damn stunned and prone bristle-pig.
<<Yeesh... what a selfish reply. You spent hours bonding your horse with a broken system so you would rather keep it broken than fix it because then people wouldn't have as hard a time as you. >>
Isn't it a selfish request to argue for what is currently a guild-only ability, with less difficulty in achieving said ability? Further, how do you know the system is/was broken and not working as intended?
To be honest I could care less if everyone had warhorses. Just make it so that it takes them 7 IG years to form the first bond as it did for the rest of us.
--Just a "clueless" Squire
<<Yeesh... what a selfish reply. You spent hours bonding your horse with a broken system so you would rather keep it broken than fix it because then people wouldn't have as hard a time as you. >>
Isn't it a selfish request to argue for what is currently a guild-only ability, with less difficulty in achieving said ability? Further, how do you know the system is/was broken and not working as intended?
To be honest I could care less if everyone had warhorses. Just make it so that it takes them 7 IG years to form the first bond as it did for the rest of us.
--Just a "clueless" Squire
Guild selfishness makes its way to horses.The simple facts are folks anyone with skill in horsemanship should be able to get a horse to do anything.all the blather about my guild this and my guild that is crap.Yet another decent system falls to the gods of uniqueness and becomes pointless and unusable for the majority.
More power to you all,time to sell old betsy for glue and pray someone sane eventually sees the light
More power to you all,time to sell old betsy for glue and pray someone sane eventually sees the light
<<how do you know the system is/was broken and not working as intended?>>
In regards to if it is broken or not in this case has no bearing on if the system is working as intended. If the war horse system is working perfectly as intended then it was poor poor design and thus is still a totaly broke system that is in desprite need of repair.
<<Guild selfishness makes its way to horses.The simple facts are folks anyone with skill in horsemanship should be able to get a horse to do anything.all the blather about my guild this and my guild that is crap.Yet another decent system falls to the gods of uniqueness and becomes pointless and unusable for the majority.>>
Regardless of how you want to view horses, DragonRealms is built the around the concept that guilds have unique systems. Otherwise all abilities should be open to anyone.
1) Anyone with enough magic should be able to summon a fam
2) Anyone with any skill with a knife should be able to backstab.
3) Anyone with a good enough voice should be able to sing enchantes.
4) Anyone should be able to clean alters
5) Anyone willing to sit in enough Astrology classes should be able to do read the future in the stars.
6) Anyone who hangs around a Barbairian enough should be able to learn how they roar just by listening to them.
7) Anyone should be able to get rib of the hindrance in any armor with enough pratice
8) Anyone should be able to hide at melee with enough pratice
9) Anyone with enough pratice should be able ot fling a coin and stun people or critters.
10) With pratice everyone should all be equal at all the creation systems.
I am sure I hit on whatever guild you belong to the fact is DragonRealms is about guild niches and just saying anyone should be able to do anything because they can really misses the point as to what makes DragonRealms a fun game. Start pushing for your guilds unique abilities to be open to the public then we can talk about the horse system.
In regards to if it is broken or not in this case has no bearing on if the system is working as intended. If the war horse system is working perfectly as intended then it was poor poor design and thus is still a totaly broke system that is in desprite need of repair.
<<Guild selfishness makes its way to horses.The simple facts are folks anyone with skill in horsemanship should be able to get a horse to do anything.all the blather about my guild this and my guild that is crap.Yet another decent system falls to the gods of uniqueness and becomes pointless and unusable for the majority.>>
Regardless of how you want to view horses, DragonRealms is built the around the concept that guilds have unique systems. Otherwise all abilities should be open to anyone.
1) Anyone with enough magic should be able to summon a fam
2) Anyone with any skill with a knife should be able to backstab.
3) Anyone with a good enough voice should be able to sing enchantes.
4) Anyone should be able to clean alters
5) Anyone willing to sit in enough Astrology classes should be able to do read the future in the stars.
6) Anyone who hangs around a Barbairian enough should be able to learn how they roar just by listening to them.
7) Anyone should be able to get rib of the hindrance in any armor with enough pratice
8) Anyone should be able to hide at melee with enough pratice
9) Anyone with enough pratice should be able ot fling a coin and stun people or critters.
10) With pratice everyone should all be equal at all the creation systems.
I am sure I hit on whatever guild you belong to the fact is DragonRealms is about guild niches and just saying anyone should be able to do anything because they can really misses the point as to what makes DragonRealms a fun game. Start pushing for your guilds unique abilities to be open to the public then we can talk about the horse system.
Take my guilds unique abilities(I am a cleric BTW).
Actually i think many of the things you mentioned should be opened to all guilds.I do understand the need for guilds to have unique abilities.But i dont think it is an overstatement that as it stands now horses are expensive fluff at best and alomost useless at worst.
It would be like you buying a blade only to be told that you will never be able to draw with it because barbarians are weapons primary.Granted this is a bit of an exagerration but it just worries me that we are falling father and farther into a turf war.
I want all guilds to have some unique abilities.But i would also like to see some commonm sense applied to them.Things that can only be taught to you by a guild leader like spells enchantes and roars should remain guild only.Things that would realistically(given this is a fantasy game) be guild secrets.should also remain guild only."I" dont think horses should fall into this catergory.IMHO anyone who has spent their life riding horses should be able to achieve almost anything that a horse is capable of regardless of guild.
I like the unique paladin Divine bond suggestion.I wouldnt even mind if each guild got a couple unique abilities through bonding with their horses.As long as those abilities fit the guild and arent something any horse owner should be able to do.
I will ask a couple of final questions. How useful does everyone think there horse is right now?Would people prefer to have a system that is useful for the majority or one that is restricted by guild?
Actually i think many of the things you mentioned should be opened to all guilds.I do understand the need for guilds to have unique abilities.But i dont think it is an overstatement that as it stands now horses are expensive fluff at best and alomost useless at worst.
It would be like you buying a blade only to be told that you will never be able to draw with it because barbarians are weapons primary.Granted this is a bit of an exagerration but it just worries me that we are falling father and farther into a turf war.
I want all guilds to have some unique abilities.But i would also like to see some commonm sense applied to them.Things that can only be taught to you by a guild leader like spells enchantes and roars should remain guild only.Things that would realistically(given this is a fantasy game) be guild secrets.should also remain guild only."I" dont think horses should fall into this catergory.IMHO anyone who has spent their life riding horses should be able to achieve almost anything that a horse is capable of regardless of guild.
I like the unique paladin Divine bond suggestion.I wouldnt even mind if each guild got a couple unique abilities through bonding with their horses.As long as those abilities fit the guild and arent something any horse owner should be able to do.
I will ask a couple of final questions. How useful does everyone think there horse is right now?Would people prefer to have a system that is useful for the majority or one that is restricted by guild?
<<I will ask a couple of final questions. How useful does everyone think there horse is right now?>>
Worthless, and I play a Paladin.
<<Would people prefer to have a system that is useful for the majority or one that is restricted by guild?>>
Seeing as how it's not useful at all for your horse to be able to fight in combat (okay, it might hit something that's stunned and lying down...), I don't think it matters all that much. However, I do think some people are seeing a guild-only perk and going "We want it! We want it! Waaah!" before actually evaluating the ability.
Drongol's Player
PC also stands for "Paying Customer."
Worthless, and I play a Paladin.
<<Would people prefer to have a system that is useful for the majority or one that is restricted by guild?>>
Seeing as how it's not useful at all for your horse to be able to fight in combat (okay, it might hit something that's stunned and lying down...), I don't think it matters all that much. However, I do think some people are seeing a guild-only perk and going "We want it! We want it! Waaah!" before actually evaluating the ability.
Drongol's Player
PC also stands for "Paying Customer."
<<However, I do think some people are seeing a guild-only perk and going "We want it! We want it! Waaah!" before actually evaluating the ability>
This sums it up pretty well. Believe me folks as a Paladin who really wants to have a useful horse even if it was only for RP purposes you don't want to start going after the horse system as something you want. On a scale of one to tem horse usefulness be it for RP or for war horses is a one. It is without a doubt the most broken and useless system in the game right now.
Quite frankly this is not the first time that horses were going to be fixed and as of yet where there is a rumor out there that someone was willing to actually take over the horse system as of yet said GM has neither solicited nor given any input to how the horse system will be fixed. Maybe they will be fixed, however I would not put any money on it at this point. The system as it stands now is exactly what the creator wanted and it?s less then useless and was quickly abandoned as soon as they were able to get it out the door. What the horse system needs is not a patch here or a patch there and then on to the next shiny system that catches the GMs eye. It needs a total and complete overall. Unless the new GM is dedicated to making horses a usable and complete system and that means beyond making one or two changes then horses will exactly what they are today. Very expensive junk.
This sums it up pretty well. Believe me folks as a Paladin who really wants to have a useful horse even if it was only for RP purposes you don't want to start going after the horse system as something you want. On a scale of one to tem horse usefulness be it for RP or for war horses is a one. It is without a doubt the most broken and useless system in the game right now.
Quite frankly this is not the first time that horses were going to be fixed and as of yet where there is a rumor out there that someone was willing to actually take over the horse system as of yet said GM has neither solicited nor given any input to how the horse system will be fixed. Maybe they will be fixed, however I would not put any money on it at this point. The system as it stands now is exactly what the creator wanted and it?s less then useless and was quickly abandoned as soon as they were able to get it out the door. What the horse system needs is not a patch here or a patch there and then on to the next shiny system that catches the GMs eye. It needs a total and complete overall. Unless the new GM is dedicated to making horses a usable and complete system and that means beyond making one or two changes then horses will exactly what they are today. Very expensive junk.
I agree that the horse system needs a total overhaul.My two main concerns are not being able to take the horse into any area i can actually hunt in.And the issue with tack loss.I pay alot of money for my horse to sit in the stable.I wish that they would add at least some functionality to horses like saddle bags.I might actually Drag the old nag out if i could load her down with boxes.
Moreso than saddle bags I think Horses need to have there own Viable experience system.Sets of skills and Stats that make working with a horse useful and FUN.I would love to be able to train my horse to swim and have it actually get better.I would like some horse combat skills that you have to train.Things that make a horse worth having over say a spellbook which at least teaches me scholarship.When animal lore is opened up i would love to see that affect how well i handle my horse.just my wants and desires.
Moreso than saddle bags I think Horses need to have there own Viable experience system.Sets of skills and Stats that make working with a horse useful and FUN.I would love to be able to train my horse to swim and have it actually get better.I would like some horse combat skills that you have to train.Things that make a horse worth having over say a spellbook which at least teaches me scholarship.When animal lore is opened up i would love to see that affect how well i handle my horse.just my wants and desires.
<<My two main concerns are not being able to take the horse into any area i can actually hunt in.And the issue with tack loss.I pay alot of money for my horse to sit in the stable.I wish that they would add at least some functionality to horses like saddle bags.I might actually Drag the old nag out if i could load her down with boxes.>>
In this case the non-war horse system currently meets some of those needs. Currently non-war horses can go in any hunting ground that a war horse can but the non-war horse will not get spooked and run away thus preserving your tack 100%.
<<not being able to take the horse into any area i can actually hunt in.>>
This of course is another huge problem and ignored feature of the horse system. Horses can't go in a lot of hunting grounds for no good reason at all take me for example.
I have been in Shard for quite awhile now when I first came down here was about the time Corik's Wall opened up.
Darkling Woods- Horse friendly three cheers for that.
Pards- Opps not horse friendly won't climb that stupid ridge if you keep you horse in the SCC stable. So right there I had to choose horse bond or train to circle.
Dirkmist- Guess what not horse friendly while my horse is happy to stand in the way of undead steeds he fears for his life when he sees a bridge and refuses to cross it. Why Darkmist is horse unfriendly who knows? Why its still horse unfriendly cause nobody wants to take the time to make it horse friendly so Shard with all it s great hunting grounds is basically a totally horse unfriendly area.
In this case the non-war horse system currently meets some of those needs. Currently non-war horses can go in any hunting ground that a war horse can but the non-war horse will not get spooked and run away thus preserving your tack 100%.
<<not being able to take the horse into any area i can actually hunt in.>>
This of course is another huge problem and ignored feature of the horse system. Horses can't go in a lot of hunting grounds for no good reason at all take me for example.
I have been in Shard for quite awhile now when I first came down here was about the time Corik's Wall opened up.
Darkling Woods- Horse friendly three cheers for that.
Pards- Opps not horse friendly won't climb that stupid ridge if you keep you horse in the SCC stable. So right there I had to choose horse bond or train to circle.
Dirkmist- Guess what not horse friendly while my horse is happy to stand in the way of undead steeds he fears for his life when he sees a bridge and refuses to cross it. Why Darkmist is horse unfriendly who knows? Why its still horse unfriendly cause nobody wants to take the time to make it horse friendly so Shard with all it s great hunting grounds is basically a totally horse unfriendly area.
I thought my horse was quite useful when he fought together. Though I did backtrain him a bit to get him to be able to hunt at my level. The biggest problems I ran into was his not being able to go places he should have and his getting spooked for no reason. Then there is how nearly impossible it is to work the bond.
<< It would be like you buying a blade only to be told that you will never be able to draw with it because barbarians are weapons primary.Granted this is a bit of an exagerration but it just worries me that we are falling father and farther into a turf war.>>
Actually there are weapons that are barbarian only, not that it matters to this discussion.
<<In regards to if it is broken or not in this case has no bearing on if the system is working as intended. If the war horse system is working perfectly as intended then it was poor poor design and thus is still a totaly broke system that is in desprite need of repair.>>
Granted, however it was stated that it is a broken system, which has never been stated by a GM. Yes, it is poorly designed by a players perspective.
--Just a "clueless" Squire
Actually there are weapons that are barbarian only, not that it matters to this discussion.
<<In regards to if it is broken or not in this case has no bearing on if the system is working as intended. If the war horse system is working perfectly as intended then it was poor poor design and thus is still a totaly broke system that is in desprite need of repair.>>
Granted, however it was stated that it is a broken system, which has never been stated by a GM. Yes, it is poorly designed by a players perspective.
--Just a "clueless" Squire
Yeah My horse spends most of the time in the stables too. Talk about a waste of potenial.
The main reason would be that I cant sleep out in the wild with me horse, without the risk of some stablehand stealing it. If just that tack issue changed I would spend more time with horse. Sure I could take all the tack of and put in my backpack before sleeping. lol Now whos the horse me or they horse. Talk about beast of burden allright.
I dont understand why we cant, (other than game mechanics) Xena travels from town A to B with horse, trip takes 2 days and sleeps with the horse in the wild, what about you cowboys on the range, do you turn back when its getting dark because you have to stable your horse?
This one thing alone screwed horses for me.
The main reason would be that I cant sleep out in the wild with me horse, without the risk of some stablehand stealing it. If just that tack issue changed I would spend more time with horse. Sure I could take all the tack of and put in my backpack before sleeping. lol Now whos the horse me or they horse. Talk about beast of burden allright.
I dont understand why we cant, (other than game mechanics) Xena travels from town A to B with horse, trip takes 2 days and sleeps with the horse in the wild, what about you cowboys on the range, do you turn back when its getting dark because you have to stable your horse?
This one thing alone screwed horses for me.
As for guild only horse skills.
I advocate for all guild doing them or the obvious basic things atleast, just introduce a roundtime or possible critical event for those guild that arent suposedly as good at said skill or give the so called better horseman (lol) guilds a bonus where the lesser horseman takes a pentalty.
Something I suggested a while back.
I dont see why it cant be open to all guilds once Animal lore is introduced to all guilds.
Ta
Wodie
I advocate for all guild doing them or the obvious basic things atleast, just introduce a roundtime or possible critical event for those guild that arent suposedly as good at said skill or give the so called better horseman (lol) guilds a bonus where the lesser horseman takes a pentalty.
Something I suggested a while back.
I dont see why it cant be open to all guilds once Animal lore is introduced to all guilds.
Ta
Wodie
<<You got me curious now, when does your horse run away? I never stable my because there are no stables in Throne and havent had a problem.
~Tonet, yours in life and death, for need or want.>>
1) It sees a big scary monster
2) It sees a butterfly.
3) Anything in between
It a bonus feature to horses much like how to bond with your horse its anyones guess
~Tonet, yours in life and death, for need or want.>>
1) It sees a big scary monster
2) It sees a butterfly.
3) Anything in between
It a bonus feature to horses much like how to bond with your horse its anyones guess
>>>However, I do think some people are seeing a guild-only perk and going "We want it! We want it! Waaah!" before actually evaluating the ability.<<<
I, for one, have no interest in playing the Guild Perk game from any direction. It's a losing battle that only escalates and leaves everyone frustrated.
I've always believed that it is better to evaluate each system on its own merits and viability rather than thinking of them primarily as guild-war ammo.
You will find that I feel that way even about a lot of the so-called 'perks' of the guilds I play the most often. Many of them should be opened up to the other guilds as well, and they never made sense as a limited experience.
And, I also play a paladin. Not sure how I could be construed as having a motive to undermine a guild when I, the player, have no guild allegiances as such.
As well, the person who suggested this in this thread was primarily playing a paladin. I haven't seen very much "Gimmee other people's stuff!" going on, and it's actually disheartening to see the assumption made that people trying to find a way to make a system functional must be doing so for selfish ulterior motives, when there is so very little in the posts to indicate that.
---Brett
I, for one, have no interest in playing the Guild Perk game from any direction. It's a losing battle that only escalates and leaves everyone frustrated.
I've always believed that it is better to evaluate each system on its own merits and viability rather than thinking of them primarily as guild-war ammo.
You will find that I feel that way even about a lot of the so-called 'perks' of the guilds I play the most often. Many of them should be opened up to the other guilds as well, and they never made sense as a limited experience.
And, I also play a paladin. Not sure how I could be construed as having a motive to undermine a guild when I, the player, have no guild allegiances as such.
As well, the person who suggested this in this thread was primarily playing a paladin. I haven't seen very much "Gimmee other people's stuff!" going on, and it's actually disheartening to see the assumption made that people trying to find a way to make a system functional must be doing so for selfish ulterior motives, when there is so very little in the posts to indicate that.
---Brett
Ever since I came to DR however many years ago I have been playing a paladin. Before I even knew what all these skills were, I chose paladin and, despite trying other guilds, always keep it as my primary character and poor 99% of my time into it. As a paladin, I think it would benefit /everyone/ if the horse system was expanded to all guilds.
<< You got me curious now, when does your horse run away? I never stable my because there are no stables in Throne and havent had a problem.
Becareful Tonet.
I give you the warning that I wasnt aware of and lost plats of festie horse tack because I wasnt aware of what happens.
When you leave you horse in game, IE log out without stabling your horse (what I call sleeping with your horse. The horse might appear to leave the game enviroment, as someone else in the room sees the horse wander off, but in fact your character leaves but your horse doesnt, it goes into what the GMs refer to as "LIMBO". This means, that if the game crashes or is reset, your horse and all on it go Poof!. When you log in you have to go to stables and "return" what you find is that you now have a stable bill and have lost all tack on the horse, NO the GMs dont replace it.
This also happens when you are in game with the horse and same events happens (crash or reset), in this case there is a chance you will get your gear back, but have to go through the hassle of GMs and proving you had it in the first place.
For more on this check in game News 5 22 HORSE SYSTEM ISSUES
I read this before it happened to me but misinterpreted this line, why becasue I dont understand game mechs.
...If you fail to properly stable your animal before leaving it unattended (this includes exiting the game) we are in no way held responsible for the well being of your animal or any items left on the horse.
I had 2 characters at the time and saw the horse leave the game, so I didnt think it was unattended. Yeah Woe was me.
also this line.
...Tack items lost due to crash-related situations will be reviewed on a case by case basis.
See there is no guaranteed you get YOUR stuff back even when THEIR game crashes.
If they dont have proof you brought it, Ie another character purchase for you and gave to you, then its likey wont get it back either.
This is why many dont have tack on their horses, to the point you would see paladins in Armor riding bareback. SAD very SAD.
This it the thing I want to see changed. Horse arent even good for RP, when this sort things happens.
Give us confendence to play with the fluff at least
Ta
Wodie "Paladin"
Becareful Tonet.
I give you the warning that I wasnt aware of and lost plats of festie horse tack because I wasnt aware of what happens.
When you leave you horse in game, IE log out without stabling your horse (what I call sleeping with your horse. The horse might appear to leave the game enviroment, as someone else in the room sees the horse wander off, but in fact your character leaves but your horse doesnt, it goes into what the GMs refer to as "LIMBO". This means, that if the game crashes or is reset, your horse and all on it go Poof!. When you log in you have to go to stables and "return" what you find is that you now have a stable bill and have lost all tack on the horse, NO the GMs dont replace it.
This also happens when you are in game with the horse and same events happens (crash or reset), in this case there is a chance you will get your gear back, but have to go through the hassle of GMs and proving you had it in the first place.
For more on this check in game News 5 22 HORSE SYSTEM ISSUES
I read this before it happened to me but misinterpreted this line, why becasue I dont understand game mechs.
...If you fail to properly stable your animal before leaving it unattended (this includes exiting the game) we are in no way held responsible for the well being of your animal or any items left on the horse.
I had 2 characters at the time and saw the horse leave the game, so I didnt think it was unattended. Yeah Woe was me.
also this line.
...Tack items lost due to crash-related situations will be reviewed on a case by case basis.
See there is no guaranteed you get YOUR stuff back even when THEIR game crashes.
If they dont have proof you brought it, Ie another character purchase for you and gave to you, then its likey wont get it back either.
This is why many dont have tack on their horses, to the point you would see paladins in Armor riding bareback. SAD very SAD.
This it the thing I want to see changed. Horse arent even good for RP, when this sort things happens.
Give us confendence to play with the fluff at least
Ta
Wodie "Paladin"
>IMHO anyone who has spent their life riding horses should be able to achieve almost anything that a horse is capable of regardless of guild.
Well, yes, I certainly second this having grown up on horseback. Well, not like some of my friends who were riding literally before they could walk, but I did spend over half my time on the back of a horse for a number of years. When I wasn't on horseback listening or talking horses, I was on the ground working with them.
If I could 'rewrite' the horse system there are a lot of things I would change radically.
The biggest overall change is that I would set up horses as a critter, with an AI, skills, stats and health.
1) I think everyone should either bond or not with their horse depending on how much time they spend either on or paying attention to it. Paladins should get massive bonuses for their time with/on their horse, but then I'm of the camp where unless it's a very specific guild ability, like enchants/roars/khri/glyphs/communes it should *with enough skill* be available to anyone. (Yes, I think anyone should be able to train off all hindrance on armor, for example, at say the 2000+ range. <evil grin> Never said it should be easy, just exponentially difficult.) Bonding would effect things like spooking, following into awkward areas (such as indoors. Yes, I've had a horse follow me and try to follow me into some of the darndest places.) leaving groups and so on.
2) Only paladins should have mounted melee but open the horse fighting at your side to everyone. That one I think is purely backwards. Even polo is plenty difficult for someone with years of riding experience but giving a command to a horse on the ground isn't tough. Actual knee to knee combat, as you would do at melee, is insanely difficult. Ranged is far easier.
3) Make a horsemanship skill that only counts in totals for certain guilds, namely rangers and paladins. (Like stealing skill only applies for thieves and I think rangers. Don't hit me if I'm wrong on the rangers part.) This skill would affect bonding and how much 'independance' the horse shows. Basically someone with no horsemanship is going to have a hard time even getting the beast to go the right direction every time up to someone with sky high horsemanship being able to get the horse to do nearly impossible things, like dragging their incapacitated person out of a room.
4) Horses should gain skill past their basics in all of the 'moving' survivals (climbing, swimming, escaping, etc). I've ridden horses over terrain I wouldn't climb on foot. (and held on and prayed going down the backside of same hills) Don't laugh at the escaping. <g> Some horses are incredible Houndinis.
5) Give horses an AI that makes them 'herd', spook and generally act like horses depending on horsemanship and bonding. A fully bonded horse to a true horseman would be, if nothing else, a very reliable helpmeet to distract that third critter trying to get at your back. The opposite, a green horse with someone who didn't know what they were doing might not even be willing to leave the stable without a few 'bribes'.
6) Horses should have a few basic combat skills they can learn as well as being able to learn 'sequences'. Basically offense, defense and obediance. Offense for how effective the horse's attacks would be, defense for how well they could dodge and obediance for how well they'd obey the rider's commands. (although a horse with sky high obediance will still ignore a rider with no horsemanship. This can be entertaining to watch in real life. <g>)
7) Group charge. (of course I also want the ability to volley fire groups) Basically in any group with a pallie as a leader as long as he/she has the most horsemanship and has lead up, everyone in the group gets the same melee advantage as a paladin, including the horse fighting under them for one strike.
8) Horses should be able to knock smaller critters over on a charge, just like thunder rams and other large beasties.
Fixes I would make immediately
1) Groups and riding double
2) Horses should be able to go anywhere outdoors where there is only a minimal skill check. If a barely trained horse will get on a ferry, they'd better be able to climb a moderate slope while led.
3) Extend the vault system to tack. Basically a horse becomes a storage item on the server so that in case of a crash it can be restored.
Things I wouldn't really mess with much ...
1) Protected saddlebags. Sure, I think you should be able to stuff things into them, but I don't think they should be recorded anywhere other than in temporary memory. I.e. if the game keels over or if you end up logging, that stuff might well end up in limbo and too bad. Great for skins/boxes, but don't put your whole gem pouch on the horse at your side. <g> Makes sense, actually, if you think about it.
2) All the fluff verbs. There are plenty, although I still always cringe at both rear and beg.
3) The whole feeding and grooming system.
4) Other than the kleptomaniac stableboys, the stabling doesn't seem to be too bad.
But that's just my take on it.
Guild abilities with horses?
Paladins ... mounted melee combat.
Rangers ... hiding/stalking on horseback.
Clerics ... mounted magic.
War Mages ... mounted targetted magic.
Moon Mages ... can override the AI for short times. (I.e. can directly command a horse to do things it normally wouldn't)
Empaths ... riding wounded (and of course healing from horseback)
Traders ... dragging things/people also stuffing more things into the saddlebags
Bards ... can play mounted including enchantes
Barbarians ... mounted missle
Thieves ... being able to forcably dismount someone else.
Now, I think with enough horsemanship, anyone could edge into another guild's demense, but through pure application of the horsemanship skill. I.e. a barbarian with 300+ horsemanship should certainly be able to go to melee with a critter and still hit it, but not with anything like the skill of a paladin with even a 100 horsemanship, and vice versa for missle combat. An empath could cast with the current restrictions but a cleric would cast as if they were on their own two feet. A war mage could target beasties all day long but if they tried to harness and cast a huge ES they'd be under the same restrictions they are now.
But then I think there are very few things that should be 100% guild only. <shrug> Yes, I think anyone should be as good a forger if they have the skills and stats. What I think should make one guild better than another at something like forging is how easily they can get those skills and stats.
Dio, player of
Well, yes, I certainly second this having grown up on horseback. Well, not like some of my friends who were riding literally before they could walk, but I did spend over half my time on the back of a horse for a number of years. When I wasn't on horseback listening or talking horses, I was on the ground working with them.
If I could 'rewrite' the horse system there are a lot of things I would change radically.
The biggest overall change is that I would set up horses as a critter, with an AI, skills, stats and health.
1) I think everyone should either bond or not with their horse depending on how much time they spend either on or paying attention to it. Paladins should get massive bonuses for their time with/on their horse, but then I'm of the camp where unless it's a very specific guild ability, like enchants/roars/khri/glyphs/communes it should *with enough skill* be available to anyone. (Yes, I think anyone should be able to train off all hindrance on armor, for example, at say the 2000+ range. <evil grin> Never said it should be easy, just exponentially difficult.) Bonding would effect things like spooking, following into awkward areas (such as indoors. Yes, I've had a horse follow me and try to follow me into some of the darndest places.) leaving groups and so on.
2) Only paladins should have mounted melee but open the horse fighting at your side to everyone. That one I think is purely backwards. Even polo is plenty difficult for someone with years of riding experience but giving a command to a horse on the ground isn't tough. Actual knee to knee combat, as you would do at melee, is insanely difficult. Ranged is far easier.
3) Make a horsemanship skill that only counts in totals for certain guilds, namely rangers and paladins. (Like stealing skill only applies for thieves and I think rangers. Don't hit me if I'm wrong on the rangers part.) This skill would affect bonding and how much 'independance' the horse shows. Basically someone with no horsemanship is going to have a hard time even getting the beast to go the right direction every time up to someone with sky high horsemanship being able to get the horse to do nearly impossible things, like dragging their incapacitated person out of a room.
4) Horses should gain skill past their basics in all of the 'moving' survivals (climbing, swimming, escaping, etc). I've ridden horses over terrain I wouldn't climb on foot. (and held on and prayed going down the backside of same hills) Don't laugh at the escaping. <g> Some horses are incredible Houndinis.
5) Give horses an AI that makes them 'herd', spook and generally act like horses depending on horsemanship and bonding. A fully bonded horse to a true horseman would be, if nothing else, a very reliable helpmeet to distract that third critter trying to get at your back. The opposite, a green horse with someone who didn't know what they were doing might not even be willing to leave the stable without a few 'bribes'.
6) Horses should have a few basic combat skills they can learn as well as being able to learn 'sequences'. Basically offense, defense and obediance. Offense for how effective the horse's attacks would be, defense for how well they could dodge and obediance for how well they'd obey the rider's commands. (although a horse with sky high obediance will still ignore a rider with no horsemanship. This can be entertaining to watch in real life. <g>)
7) Group charge. (of course I also want the ability to volley fire groups) Basically in any group with a pallie as a leader as long as he/she has the most horsemanship and has lead up, everyone in the group gets the same melee advantage as a paladin, including the horse fighting under them for one strike.
8) Horses should be able to knock smaller critters over on a charge, just like thunder rams and other large beasties.
Fixes I would make immediately
1) Groups and riding double
2) Horses should be able to go anywhere outdoors where there is only a minimal skill check. If a barely trained horse will get on a ferry, they'd better be able to climb a moderate slope while led.
3) Extend the vault system to tack. Basically a horse becomes a storage item on the server so that in case of a crash it can be restored.
Things I wouldn't really mess with much ...
1) Protected saddlebags. Sure, I think you should be able to stuff things into them, but I don't think they should be recorded anywhere other than in temporary memory. I.e. if the game keels over or if you end up logging, that stuff might well end up in limbo and too bad. Great for skins/boxes, but don't put your whole gem pouch on the horse at your side. <g> Makes sense, actually, if you think about it.
2) All the fluff verbs. There are plenty, although I still always cringe at both rear and beg.
3) The whole feeding and grooming system.
4) Other than the kleptomaniac stableboys, the stabling doesn't seem to be too bad.
But that's just my take on it.
Guild abilities with horses?
Paladins ... mounted melee combat.
Rangers ... hiding/stalking on horseback.
Clerics ... mounted magic.
War Mages ... mounted targetted magic.
Moon Mages ... can override the AI for short times. (I.e. can directly command a horse to do things it normally wouldn't)
Empaths ... riding wounded (and of course healing from horseback)
Traders ... dragging things/people also stuffing more things into the saddlebags
Bards ... can play mounted including enchantes
Barbarians ... mounted missle
Thieves ... being able to forcably dismount someone else.
Now, I think with enough horsemanship, anyone could edge into another guild's demense, but through pure application of the horsemanship skill. I.e. a barbarian with 300+ horsemanship should certainly be able to go to melee with a critter and still hit it, but not with anything like the skill of a paladin with even a 100 horsemanship, and vice versa for missle combat. An empath could cast with the current restrictions but a cleric would cast as if they were on their own two feet. A war mage could target beasties all day long but if they tried to harness and cast a huge ES they'd be under the same restrictions they are now.
But then I think there are very few things that should be 100% guild only. <shrug> Yes, I think anyone should be as good a forger if they have the skills and stats. What I think should make one guild better than another at something like forging is how easily they can get those skills and stats.
Dio, player of
<<2) Only paladins should have mounted melee but open the horse fighting at your side to everyone. That one I think is purely backwards. Even polo is plenty difficult for someone with years of riding experience but giving a command to a horse on the ground isn't tough. Actual knee to knee combat, as you would do at melee, is insanely difficult. Ranged is far easier.
<<Dio
I like most of what you said except for the above part. I feel the mounted combat should be open to all in DR. I feel this way partly due to all the fantasy books I've read I would imagine.
For my view on horses in DR. I feel the Paladins should have a stronger bond with their horse and have the knowledge that allows them to train their horse better than most. The combination of these two should allow the horse to help when they are not mounted WITHOUT (That's the big perk, IMO) having to signal the horse to help.
For example, let's say you get dismounted. A well trained Paladin Warhorse would do everything it can to help keep you alive while you reorient yourself. Someone else's horse might continue out of combat thankful to be alive.
That's my opinion.
Malvical
<<Dio
I like most of what you said except for the above part. I feel the mounted combat should be open to all in DR. I feel this way partly due to all the fantasy books I've read I would imagine.
For my view on horses in DR. I feel the Paladins should have a stronger bond with their horse and have the knowledge that allows them to train their horse better than most. The combination of these two should allow the horse to help when they are not mounted WITHOUT (That's the big perk, IMO) having to signal the horse to help.
For example, let's say you get dismounted. A well trained Paladin Warhorse would do everything it can to help keep you alive while you reorient yourself. Someone else's horse might continue out of combat thankful to be alive.
That's my opinion.
Malvical
For all the advanced ideas of advanced ways people could use horses in combat and guild only abilities I first would like to see the basic of basic fixes as listed below.
1) Grouping. Horses grouped should be able to move as a group no matter what speed. A mounted rider and a walker should be able to move as a group as long as the horse is in walking mode.
2) The massive fear of loseing all tack and gear should go bye bye its lame that if the game hicups we can lose everything.
3) Horses should be able to go in almost all the hunting grounds save ones where its obvious they can't go (undershard, over the barricade in Rock Trolls exc.) Why it is they can't go into Darkmist or Pards/DP's and such is byond me and very very bad.
On a aside note from the last poster mounted horse combat sinks and uless they plan on changing it, its something you really don't want to push for.
1) Grouping. Horses grouped should be able to move as a group no matter what speed. A mounted rider and a walker should be able to move as a group as long as the horse is in walking mode.
2) The massive fear of loseing all tack and gear should go bye bye its lame that if the game hicups we can lose everything.
3) Horses should be able to go in almost all the hunting grounds save ones where its obvious they can't go (undershard, over the barricade in Rock Trolls exc.) Why it is they can't go into Darkmist or Pards/DP's and such is byond me and very very bad.
On a aside note from the last poster mounted horse combat sinks and uless they plan on changing it, its something you really don't want to push for.
