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You get a reinforced oaken casket from inside your nightsilk haversack.
>
Careful probing of the oaken casket fails to reveal to you what type of trap protects it.
Roundtime: 7 sec.
R> disa id
Careful probing of the oaken casket fails to reveal to you what type of trap protects it.
Roundtime: 11 sec.
R> disa id
Careful probing of the oaken casket fails to reveal to you what type of trap protects it.
Roundtime: 7 sec.
R> disa id
Careful probing of the oaken casket fails to reveal to you what type of trap protects it.
Roundtime: 7 sec.
R> disa id
Careful probing of the oaken casket fails to reveal to you what type of trap protects it.
Roundtime: 7 sec.
R> disa id
Careful probing of the oaken casket fails to reveal to you what type of trap protects it.
Roundtime: 8 sec.
R> disa id
Careful probing of the oaken casket fails to reveal to you what type of trap protects it.
Roundtime: 11 sec.
R> disa id
Careful probing of the oaken casket fails to reveal to you what type of trap protects it.
Roundtime: 11 sec.
R> disa id
Careful probing of the oaken casket fails to reveal to you what type of trap protects it.
Roundtime: 8 sec.
R> disa id
Careful probing of the oaken casket fails to reveal to you what type of trap protects it.
Roundtime: 7 sec.
R> disa id
Careful probing of the oaken casket fails to reveal to you what type of trap protects it.
Roundtime: 8 sec.
R> disa id
Careful probing of the oaken casket fails to reveal to you what type of trap protects it.
Roundtime: 11 sec.
R> disa id
Careful probing of the oaken casket fails to reveal to you what type of trap protects it.
Roundtime: 10 sec.
R> disa id
Careful probing of the oaken casket fails to reveal to you what type of trap protects it.
Roundtime: 11 sec.
R> disa id
Careful probing of the oaken casket fails to reveal to you what type of trap protects it.
Roundtime: 7 sec.
R> disa id
Careful probing of the oaken casket fails to reveal to you what type of trap protects it.
Roundtime: 9 sec.
R> disa id
Careful probing of the oaken casket fails to reveal to you what type of trap protects it.
Roundtime: 10 sec.
R> disa id
Careful probing of the oaken casket fails to reveal to you what type of trap protects it.
Roundtime: 8 sec.
R> disa id
Careful probing of the oaken casket fails to reveal to you what type of trap protects it.
Roundtime: 10 sec.
R> disa id
Careful probing of the oaken casket fails to reveal to you what type of trap protects it.
Roundtime: 7 sec.
R> disa id
Careful probing of the oaken casket fails to reveal to you what type of trap protects it.
Roundtime: 7 sec.
R> disa id
Careful probing of the oaken casket fails to reveal to you what type of trap protects it.
Roundtime: 10 sec.
R> disa id
Careful probing of the oaken casket fails to reveal to you what type of trap protects it.
Roundtime: 10 sec.
R> disa id
Careful probing of the oaken casket fails to reveal to you what type of trap protects it.
Roundtime: 10 sec.
R> disa id
Careful probing of the oaken casket fails to reveal to you what type of trap protects it.
Roundtime: 8 sec.
R> disa id
Careful probing of the oaken casket fails to reveal to you what type of trap protects it.
Roundtime: 9 sec.
R> disa id
Careful probing of the oaken casket fails to reveal to you what type of trap protects it.
Roundtime: 11 sec.
R> disa id
Careful probing of the oaken casket fails to reveal to you what type of trap protects it.
Roundtime: 11 sec.
R> disa id
Careful probing of the oaken casket fails to reveal to you what type of trap protects it.
Roundtime: 8 sec.
R> disa id
Careful probing of the oaken casket fails to reveal to you what type of trap protects it.
Roundtime: 7 sec.
R> disa id
Careful probing of the oaken casket fails to reveal to you what type of trap protects it.
Roundtime: 7 sec.
R> disa id
Careful probing of the oaken casket fails to reveal to you what type of trap protects it.
Roundtime: 9 sec.
R> disa id
Careful probing of the oaken casket fails to reveal to you what type of trap protects it.
Roundtime: 11 sec.
R> disa id
Careful probing of the oaken casket fails to reveal to you what type of trap protects it.
Roundtime: 10 sec.
R> disa id
Careful probing of the oaken casket fails to reveal to you what type of trap protects it.
Roundtime: 9 sec.
R> disa id
Careful probing of the oaken casket fails to reveal to you what type of trap protects it.
Roundtime: 7 sec.
R> disa id
Careful probing of the oaken casket fails to reveal to you what type of trap protects it.
Roundtime: 9 sec.
R> disa id
Careful probing of the oaken casket fails to reveal to you what type of trap protects it.
Roundtime: 11 sec.
R> disa id
Careful probing of the oaken casket fails to reveal to you what type of trap protects it.
Roundtime: 7 sec.
R> disa id
Careful probing of the oaken casket fails to reveal to you what type of trap protects it.
Roundtime: 7 sec.
R> disa id
Careful probing of the oaken casket fails to reveal to you what type of trap protects it.
Roundtime: 9 sec.
R> disa id
Careful probing of the oaken casket fails to reveal to you what type of trap protects it.
Roundtime: 11 sec.
R> disa id
Careful probing of the oaken casket fails to reveal to you what type of trap protects it.
Roundtime: 9 sec.
R> disa id
Careful probing of the oaken casket fails to reveal to you what type of trap protects it.
Roundtime: 9 sec.
R> disa id
Careful probing of the oaken casket fails to reveal to you what type of trap protects it.
Roundtime: 9 sec.
R> disa id
Careful probing of the oaken casket fails to reveal to you what type of trap protects it.
Roundtime: 10 sec.
R> disa id
Careful probing of the oaken casket fails to reveal to you what type of trap protects it.
Roundtime: 11 sec.
R> disa id
Careful probing of the oaken casket fails to reveal to you what type of trap protects it.
Roundtime: 8 sec.
R> disa id
Careful probing of the oaken casket fails to reveal to you what type of trap protects it.
Roundtime: 9 sec.
R> disa id
Careful probing of the oaken casket fails to reveal to you what type of trap protects it.
Roundtime: 10 sec.
R> disa id
Careful probing of the oaken casket fails to reveal to you what type of trap protects it.
Roundtime: 8 sec.
R> disa id
Careful probing of the oaken casket fails to reveal to you what type of trap protects it.
Roundtime: 11 sec.
R> disa id
Careful probing of the oaken casket fails to reveal to you what type of trap protects it.
Roundtime: 7 sec.
R> disa id
Within the casing of the oaken casket is a mesh bag, a very sharp blade poised to the side just within the structure of the casket. The bag twitches on occasion, leading you to believe the blade's presence likely to be a very bad thing.
The trap has the edge on you, but you've got a good shot at disarming the oaken casket.
Roundtime: 6 sec.
R> disa careful
After carefully pushing at the sharp blade for a while, you manage to bend it well away from the mesh bag.
Roundtime: 12 sec.
R> pick careful
Your lack of knowledge of the lock hinders your initial efforts somewhat.
You are unable to make any progress towards opening the lock.
Roundtime: 13 sec.
R> pick careful
Your lack of knowledge of the lock hinders your initial efforts somewhat.
With a soft click, you remove your lockpick and open and remove the lock.
You discover another lock protecting the oaken casket's contents as soon as you remove this one.
Roundtime: 14 sec.
R> pick careful
Your lack of knowledge of the lock hinders your initial efforts somewhat.
With a soft click, you remove your lockpick and open and remove the lock.
You discover another lock protecting the oaken casket's contents as soon as you remove this one.
Roundtime: 15 sec.
R> pick careful
Your lack of knowledge of the lock hinders your initial efforts somewhat.
With a soft click, you remove your lockpick and open and remove the lock.
Roundtime: 12 sec.
480 seconds of roundtime trying to find the trap (which teaches nothing whatsoever)
12 seconds to disarm the trap
54 seconds total to pick 3 locks
I realize this box is definitely a bit beyond my abilities, but why is it so freaking hard to find traps and locks? There is already a TON of risk involved in disarming the traps, which are instant death for most trap types. Why does there have to be 8 minutes of roundtime on top of that risk, just to find the trap?
It's especially ridiculous for finding the locks, where I can either spend 8 minutes per lock searching for it, or spend <1 minute total to pick thru all three locks that I can't even find.
Apu
_
Respect. Integrity. World Domination.
https://sites.google.com/site/apucorpdr/
>>There's a huge skill jump from head-splitters boxes to assassins boxes. Huge. Like 500+ ranks, huge.
This is true, but I think he is pointing out that the perception check is harder than the actual disarming checks.
I don't think you see this with lower boxes so maybe the perception part of it doesn't scale at the same rate.
Codiax.
Forged Weapons:
http://www.elanthipedia.org/wiki/User:Codiax#Codiax-Forged-Weapons
This is true, but I think he is pointing out that the perception check is harder than the actual disarming checks.
I don't think you see this with lower boxes so maybe the perception part of it doesn't scale at the same rate.
Codiax.
Forged Weapons:
http://www.elanthipedia.org/wiki/User:Codiax#Codiax-Forged-Weapons
Maybe a band-aid would be giving a little more leverage on the pass check for the perception portion on the boxes, but I think the root of the problem is there just needs to be another tier of boxes, in between, to bridge the skill gap.
I know I spent several months going back to splitters to farm boxes and nothing else.
Don't know if I'd really blame it on perception, as my locksmithing and perception have always been very close, and once I truly had the skill for them it wasn't a problem.
With those boxes it's just as easy to get stuck on the actual disarm (which gets you killed quickly) or the picking, which only eventually goes through with a M/GM lockpick.
>>There's a huge skill jump from head-splitters boxes to assassins boxes. Huge. Like 500+ ranks, huge.
I agree completely. However...
I disarmed the box in 12 seconds. After taking 8 solid minutes of roundtime to find it. I picked all three traps in 54 seconds, without even finding the locks.
The issue isn't that assassin boxes are a ton harder than head-splitters (that gap is actually really annoying now that you mention it - but I assume it is intended to be that way so I have no complaints there). What is really dumb is that I have about 50% chance of success when disarming traps or picking locks, but only about a 2% chance at finding traps or locks. I am literally over 10 times more likely to succeed at blindly disarm a trap that I cannot see, than I am to succeed at searching for the trap and finding it. This makes no sense whatsoever from an IC perspective.
>>Don't know if I'd really blame it on perception, as my locksmithing and perception have always been very close, and once I truly had the skill for them it wasn't a problem.
Yeah it definitely isn't an issue with perception - my perception is about 250 ranks higher than locksmithing. Also, back when CJs existed, I could get around this problem by using Disarm CJs, but Perception CJs didn't help at all. If anything, it wouldn't surprise me if the skill contest was balanced against Locksmithing + Perception, but only checking Locksmithing ranks. Because my success rate would only make sense if the game thought my skill I was 800+ ranks too low
Apu
_
Respect. Integrity. World Domination.
https://sites.google.com/site/apucorpdr/
I agree completely. However...
I disarmed the box in 12 seconds. After taking 8 solid minutes of roundtime to find it. I picked all three traps in 54 seconds, without even finding the locks.
The issue isn't that assassin boxes are a ton harder than head-splitters (that gap is actually really annoying now that you mention it - but I assume it is intended to be that way so I have no complaints there). What is really dumb is that I have about 50% chance of success when disarming traps or picking locks, but only about a 2% chance at finding traps or locks. I am literally over 10 times more likely to succeed at blindly disarm a trap that I cannot see, than I am to succeed at searching for the trap and finding it. This makes no sense whatsoever from an IC perspective.
>>Don't know if I'd really blame it on perception, as my locksmithing and perception have always been very close, and once I truly had the skill for them it wasn't a problem.
Yeah it definitely isn't an issue with perception - my perception is about 250 ranks higher than locksmithing. Also, back when CJs existed, I could get around this problem by using Disarm CJs, but Perception CJs didn't help at all. If anything, it wouldn't surprise me if the skill contest was balanced against Locksmithing + Perception, but only checking Locksmithing ranks. Because my success rate would only make sense if the game thought my skill I was 800+ ranks too low
Apu
_
Respect. Integrity. World Domination.
https://sites.google.com/site/apucorpdr/
Also as another note - even if this gets fixed, I still can't really open assassin boxes on my own, because my skill is just too low and that is intended. But sometimes I get adventurous and feel like playing the odds, and every time it is just such a buzzkill when I remember Oh yeah, it takes 5 minutes of roundtime just to see the trap.
The more I think about it, it has to bugged. There's just no way that whoever coded boxes intended for the skill contests to work this way.
Apu
_
Respect. Integrity. World Domination.
https://sites.google.com/site/apucorpdr/
The more I think about it, it has to bugged. There's just no way that whoever coded boxes intended for the skill contests to work this way.
Apu
_
Respect. Integrity. World Domination.
https://sites.google.com/site/apucorpdr/
yeah, I've had this problem before. The ID check doesn't seem to match up very well with the disarm check. I've had this problem ever since Zeyurn redesigned boxes years ago (Lockpicking 2.0). I always assumed that it was my lack of perception; that perception scaled fast than locksmithing. But I never thought the system was working optimally.
Nikpack
Nikpack
>>The more I think about it, it has to bugged. There's just no way that whoever coded boxes intended for the skill contests to work this way.
Seriously, this has to be bugged. Can any GM look into whether traps are intended to work this way where it is 10 times harder to FIND a trap than it is to disarm it? Would it help if I repost everything in the Bugs folder?
Apu
_
Respect. Integrity. World Domination.
https://sites.google.com/site/apucorpdr/
Seriously, this has to be bugged. Can any GM look into whether traps are intended to work this way where it is 10 times harder to FIND a trap than it is to disarm it? Would it help if I repost everything in the Bugs folder?
Apu
_
Respect. Integrity. World Domination.
https://sites.google.com/site/apucorpdr/
Just as an FYI, this is NOT only true of higher level boxes. The first box my very newbie character opened, took about 6 times as long to ID as to actually disarm and pick. The second time (now with skill) that I tried to disarm a gob box, I disarm identified well over 30 times, and still have yet to ID the trap. So it's not a scaling issue.
Hmm. At first glance I don't see anything in the formulas that could account for it. ID is very perception weighted, but you said that isn't a problem for you.
Is it possible your wounds or armor is getting in the way? Or are you strongly skewed towards physical vs mental stats?
-Raesh
"Ever notice that B.A.'s flavor text swells in direct proportion to how much one of our characters is getting screwed?" - Brian Van Hoose
Is it possible your wounds or armor is getting in the way? Or are you strongly skewed towards physical vs mental stats?
-Raesh
"Ever notice that B.A.'s flavor text swells in direct proportion to how much one of our characters is getting screwed?" - Brian Van Hoose
>>Is it possible your wounds or armor is getting in the way? Or are you strongly skewed towards physical vs mental stats?
Definitely not wearing armor, and I generally have external bleeders on abdomen + back but no other wounds. That seems unlikely, but I could get those healed and try again
Stats are below:
Strength : 70 Reflex : 100
Agility : 100 Charisma : 10
Discipline : 80 Wisdom : 100
Intelligence : 100 Stamina : 60
If it's based heavily on Charisma, feel free to slap me for wasting your time. Otherwise though I don't see anything that sticks out
Apu
_
Respect. Integrity. World Domination.
https://sites.google.com/site/apucorpdr/
Definitely not wearing armor, and I generally have external bleeders on abdomen + back but no other wounds. That seems unlikely, but I could get those healed and try again
Stats are below:
Strength : 70 Reflex : 100
Agility : 100 Charisma : 10
Discipline : 80 Wisdom : 100
Intelligence : 100 Stamina : 60
If it's based heavily on Charisma, feel free to slap me for wasting your time. Otherwise though I don't see anything that sticks out
Apu
_
Respect. Integrity. World Domination.
https://sites.google.com/site/apucorpdr/
Hmm. No, nothing jumping out at me. Interesting. As an exact copy of you and watching the math (Testing with a copy of a random box on you) I had an very low chance of success, but my chance to ID was better than to disarm. That said, if I disarmed careful that has a better chance of success than ID.
-Raesh
"Ever notice that B.A.'s flavor text swells in direct proportion to how much one of our characters is getting screwed?" - Brian Van Hoose
-Raesh
"Ever notice that B.A.'s flavor text swells in direct proportion to how much one of our characters is getting screwed?" - Brian Van Hoose
>> That said, if I disarmed careful that has a better chance of success than ID.
Right, everything I was comparing was for using Disarm Careful. When boxes are at the edge of your skill level, it's pretty much assumed that you would use Careful.
I guess maybe the only problem is that there is no option to boost your chance of success at the cost of exp gain when using Identify. That may not be an easy fix
Apu
_
Respect. Integrity. World Domination.
https://sites.google.com/site/apucorpdr/
Right, everything I was comparing was for using Disarm Careful. When boxes are at the edge of your skill level, it's pretty much assumed that you would use Careful.
I guess maybe the only problem is that there is no option to boost your chance of success at the cost of exp gain when using Identify. That may not be an easy fix
Apu
_
Respect. Integrity. World Domination.
https://sites.google.com/site/apucorpdr/
It's possible we could lower the effective difficulty for the box for the sake of ID, but I worry that might have unwanted side effects for exp.
I'm really not the one to dig into this (I know very little about the system and am swamped with projects), I mostly wanted to confirm there wasn't some glaring bug going on. Sorry.
-Raesh
"Ever notice that B.A.'s flavor text swells in direct proportion to how much one of our characters is getting screwed?" - Brian Van Hoose
I'm really not the one to dig into this (I know very little about the system and am swamped with projects), I mostly wanted to confirm there wasn't some glaring bug going on. Sorry.
-Raesh
"Ever notice that B.A.'s flavor text swells in direct proportion to how much one of our characters is getting screwed?" - Brian Van Hoose
Unfortunately, I never thought this was a bug. It's more a limitation of the system that we have.
I do think some extra thought should be placed into the idea of Disarm Identify. On general principle, I feel one should not have to overtrain one skill just so they can use another skill, and that's how I feel this part of the system works.
Nikpack
I do think some extra thought should be placed into the idea of Disarm Identify. On general principle, I feel one should not have to overtrain one skill just so they can use another skill, and that's how I feel this part of the system works.
Nikpack
>I do think some extra thought should be placed into the idea of Disarm Identify. On general principle, I feel one should not have to overtrain one skill just so they can use another skill, and that's how I feel this part of the system works.
I'm wondering if it isn't something ridiculous like boxes being programmed to expect the locksmith to always have a locksmithing/perception bonus. I mean Thieves can already open boxes near two hundred ranks higher than anyone else...
Not bashing on Thieves at all. I just mean that [if this is the case] boxes should be easy for thieves, not stupidly hard for everyone else.
>You're going to need a lot more than a box or two. With 80 locksmithing I cleared about 40 assassin boxes in under a week. Not really viable as a trading tool.
That's extremely strange. Unless there's some skill gap rollover or you're using high grade lockpicks, you shouldn't go though more than 2-3 if you were blindpicking throughout the day. (That or you have incredibly good/bad luck...)
Are you also analyzing/harvesting the trap? Just wanting to be sure, a very huge number of players bypass [or don't even know of] the free experience.
I'm wondering if it isn't something ridiculous like boxes being programmed to expect the locksmith to always have a locksmithing/perception bonus. I mean Thieves can already open boxes near two hundred ranks higher than anyone else...
Not bashing on Thieves at all. I just mean that [if this is the case] boxes should be easy for thieves, not stupidly hard for everyone else.
>You're going to need a lot more than a box or two. With 80 locksmithing I cleared about 40 assassin boxes in under a week. Not really viable as a trading tool.
That's extremely strange. Unless there's some skill gap rollover or you're using high grade lockpicks, you shouldn't go though more than 2-3 if you were blindpicking throughout the day. (That or you have incredibly good/bad luck...)
Are you also analyzing/harvesting the trap? Just wanting to be sure, a very huge number of players bypass [or don't even know of] the free experience.
<<I'm wondering if it isn't something ridiculous like boxes being programmed to expect the locksmith to always have a locksmithing/perception bonus. I mean Thieves can already open boxes near two hundred ranks higher than anyone else...
It sure feels that way, but I suspect the GM(s) who wrote the system didn't write that with mind. It was just a byproduct of how it was written.
Nikpack
It sure feels that way, but I suspect the GM(s) who wrote the system didn't write that with mind. It was just a byproduct of how it was written.
Nikpack
>>I'm wondering if it isn't something ridiculous like boxes being programmed to expect the locksmith to always have a locksmithing/perception bonus. I mean Thieves can already open boxes near two hundred ranks higher than anyone else...
I think this is a big part of the problem, but if there is no obvious bug then it's also just SEVERELY imbalanced between perception and locksmithing. With 900 perception I have almost no chance at finding traps that I can disarm pretty safely with only 700 locksmithing.
Another thing I don't understand though if Disarm Identify is based off perception, is why I see no improvement at finding traps when I boost perception skill (using Trader speculate ability or using CJs before 3.0), but I saw a huge improvement at finding traps when I boosted disarm skill (only possible before 3.0, using CJs)
Apu
_
Respect. Integrity. World Domination.
https://sites.google.com/site/apucorpdr/
I think this is a big part of the problem, but if there is no obvious bug then it's also just SEVERELY imbalanced between perception and locksmithing. With 900 perception I have almost no chance at finding traps that I can disarm pretty safely with only 700 locksmithing.
Another thing I don't understand though if Disarm Identify is based off perception, is why I see no improvement at finding traps when I boost perception skill (using Trader speculate ability or using CJs before 3.0), but I saw a huge improvement at finding traps when I boosted disarm skill (only possible before 3.0, using CJs)
Apu
_
Respect. Integrity. World Domination.
https://sites.google.com/site/apucorpdr/
>>I think this is a big part of the problem, but if there is no obvious bug then it's also just SEVERELY imbalanced between perception and locksmithing. With 900 perception I have almost no chance at finding traps that I can disarm pretty safely with only 700 locksmithing.
By imbalanced I mean perception makes up a much larger share of the formula, not that the check is harder.
>>Another thing I don't understand though if Disarm Identify is based off perception, is why I see no improvement at finding traps when I boost perception skill (using Trader speculate ability or using CJs before 3.0), but I saw a huge improvement at finding traps when I boosted disarm skill (only possible before 3.0, using CJs)
This should not be true. I'm not saying it isn't, I'm saying there's nothing in the code that I saw that should make this true.
-Raesh
"Ever notice that B.A.'s flavor text swells in direct proportion to how much one of our characters is getting screwed?" - Brian Van Hoose
By imbalanced I mean perception makes up a much larger share of the formula, not that the check is harder.
>>Another thing I don't understand though if Disarm Identify is based off perception, is why I see no improvement at finding traps when I boost perception skill (using Trader speculate ability or using CJs before 3.0), but I saw a huge improvement at finding traps when I boosted disarm skill (only possible before 3.0, using CJs)
This should not be true. I'm not saying it isn't, I'm saying there's nothing in the code that I saw that should make this true.
-Raesh
"Ever notice that B.A.'s flavor text swells in direct proportion to how much one of our characters is getting screwed?" - Brian Van Hoose
