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I was under the impression that stealing from players didn't teach stealing anymore, to prevent abuse by back-and-forth stealing, but just now I lifted some coins from a PC and my Thievery skill popped up with some new experience. Was this a bug, or am I just mistaken?
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Kneebiter Zhunee just arrived.
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Zhunee glances around the room and says, "Someone pull my finger."
R>
Kneebiter Zhunee runs west.
I have a follow-up question.
When I stole from someone last night, I was locked PvP Open, which I expected and accepted, and after two hours I was automatically set back to my previous setting (Guarded) and got a message about how I would be unable to change my PvP stance for 24 or 48 (I can't recall which) hours. This morning, I stole from someone else (which is when I noticed the small XP gain) and once again got the message about being locked PvP open, but this time I didn't read it since I assumed I knew what it said. I just noticed however, I'm still Open. Is this some kind of bug, or does the timer for your locked period get longer from subsequent thefts?
I
Kneebiter Zhunee just arrived.
R>
Zhunee glances around the room and says, "Someone pull my finger."
R>
Kneebiter Zhunee runs west.
When I stole from someone last night, I was locked PvP Open, which I expected and accepted, and after two hours I was automatically set back to my previous setting (Guarded) and got a message about how I would be unable to change my PvP stance for 24 or 48 (I can't recall which) hours. This morning, I stole from someone else (which is when I noticed the small XP gain) and once again got the message about being locked PvP open, but this time I didn't read it since I assumed I knew what it said. I just noticed however, I'm still Open. Is this some kind of bug, or does the timer for your locked period get longer from subsequent thefts?
I
Kneebiter Zhunee just arrived.
R>
Zhunee glances around the room and says, "Someone pull my finger."
R>
Kneebiter Zhunee runs west.
>> PvP stealing does not ignore the timer for changing your PvP profile. You are stuck Open for the next day or two. I wouldn't worry about it unless you tend to annoy/anger people a lot.
I think you might be misunderstanding my question.
When I stole from a PC yesterday, I was locked OPEN for 2 hours. After the 2 hour period elapsed, I was set back to GUARDED automatically.
When I stole from a PC this morning, I was again locked OPEN, however that was approximately 8 hours ago, and I have yet to return to GUARDED.
What I'm asking is: do subsequent stealing attempts increase the length that a player is locked OPEN?
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Kneebiter Zhunee just arrived.
R>
Zhunee glances around the room and says, "Someone pull my finger."
R>
Kneebiter Zhunee runs west.
I think you might be misunderstanding my question.
When I stole from a PC yesterday, I was locked OPEN for 2 hours. After the 2 hour period elapsed, I was set back to GUARDED automatically.
When I stole from a PC this morning, I was again locked OPEN, however that was approximately 8 hours ago, and I have yet to return to GUARDED.
What I'm asking is: do subsequent stealing attempts increase the length that a player is locked OPEN?
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Kneebiter Zhunee just arrived.
R>
Zhunee glances around the room and says, "Someone pull my finger."
R>
Kneebiter Zhunee runs west.
This
>after two hours I was automatically set back to my previous setting (Guarded)
does not override this
>got a message about how I would be unable to change my PvP stance for 24 or 48 (I can't recall which) hours.
Weapons for Sale:
https://elanthipedia.play.net/mediawiki/index.php/User:CARAAMON#Wares
Hunta Talna Kortok, built by Gor'Togs, for Gor'Togs
http://www.angelfire.com/rpg2/caraamon/home.html
>after two hours I was automatically set back to my previous setting (Guarded)
does not override this
>got a message about how I would be unable to change my PvP stance for 24 or 48 (I can't recall which) hours.
Weapons for Sale:
https://elanthipedia.play.net/mediawiki/index.php/User:CARAAMON#Wares
Hunta Talna Kortok, built by Gor'Togs, for Gor'Togs
http://www.angelfire.com/rpg2/caraamon/home.html
>>What I'm asking is: do subsequent stealing attempts increase the length that a player is locked OPEN?
I've been Open ever since this change rolled in so I can't say for sure. I want to say the cap is like 4-6 hours.
What I was saying is that the 24-48 hour timer for changing your PvP stance from the first time it went back to Guarded doesn't sound like it is over. So PvP stealing again before the timer is up will change you back to Open, but you will not go back to Guarded until that timer is up. Or you have to wait the timer out and then manually switch the stance yourself.
Again, I don't have a lot of experience with switching back and forth from stealing, but I think the 24-48 hour timer breaks the auto-switching back to Guarded if you steal again before it's up so you have to do it manually.
If you are going to make it a habit of PvP stealing, I'd just recommend staying Open personally.
I've been Open ever since this change rolled in so I can't say for sure. I want to say the cap is like 4-6 hours.
What I was saying is that the 24-48 hour timer for changing your PvP stance from the first time it went back to Guarded doesn't sound like it is over. So PvP stealing again before the timer is up will change you back to Open, but you will not go back to Guarded until that timer is up. Or you have to wait the timer out and then manually switch the stance yourself.
Again, I don't have a lot of experience with switching back and forth from stealing, but I think the 24-48 hour timer breaks the auto-switching back to Guarded if you steal again before it's up so you have to do it manually.
If you are going to make it a habit of PvP stealing, I'd just recommend staying Open personally.
>> This
>> >after two hours I was automatically set back to my previous setting (Guarded)
>> does not override this
>> >got a message about how I would be unable to change my PvP stance for 24 or 48 (I can't recall which) hours.
Again, I think something's being missed here. When my 2-hour locked-open period ended, I got a message informing me that I was being set back to guarded and that I would be unable to change my PvP setting for the next day or two. Maybe a graphical timeline will help make this clearer.
I'm manually set to PvP Guarded -> I steal from someone -> I'm automatically set to PvP Open -> 2 hours pass -> I'm automatically set to PvP Guarded -> I'm unable to change my PvP setting for 1-2 days -> I steal from someone -> I'm automatically set to PvP Open -> 8 hours pass -> I am not automatically set back to Guarded
>> What I was saying is that the 24-48 hour timer for changing your PvP stance from the first time it went back to Guarded doesn't sound like it is over.
It's not over yet. If it's 24 hours, I've got another few hours to go. But this isn't about manually changing my stance, it's about the automatic change.
>> So PvP stealing again before the timer is up will change you back to Open, but you will not go back to Guarded until that timer is up.
And that's my original question again: is it intended that the 24-hour manual-change restriction is also preventing the game from automatically changing my stance when my timer expires? Or is the timer extended when I steal from a PC multiple times during a given period? Or is there a glitch at play?
I
Kneebiter Zhunee just arrived.
R>
Zhunee glances around the room and says, "Someone pull my finger."
R>
Kneebiter Zhunee runs west.
>> >after two hours I was automatically set back to my previous setting (Guarded)
>> does not override this
>> >got a message about how I would be unable to change my PvP stance for 24 or 48 (I can't recall which) hours.
Again, I think something's being missed here. When my 2-hour locked-open period ended, I got a message informing me that I was being set back to guarded and that I would be unable to change my PvP setting for the next day or two. Maybe a graphical timeline will help make this clearer.
I'm manually set to PvP Guarded -> I steal from someone -> I'm automatically set to PvP Open -> 2 hours pass -> I'm automatically set to PvP Guarded -> I'm unable to change my PvP setting for 1-2 days -> I steal from someone -> I'm automatically set to PvP Open -> 8 hours pass -> I am not automatically set back to Guarded
>> What I was saying is that the 24-48 hour timer for changing your PvP stance from the first time it went back to Guarded doesn't sound like it is over.
It's not over yet. If it's 24 hours, I've got another few hours to go. But this isn't about manually changing my stance, it's about the automatic change.
>> So PvP stealing again before the timer is up will change you back to Open, but you will not go back to Guarded until that timer is up.
And that's my original question again: is it intended that the 24-hour manual-change restriction is also preventing the game from automatically changing my stance when my timer expires? Or is the timer extended when I steal from a PC multiple times during a given period? Or is there a glitch at play?
I
Kneebiter Zhunee just arrived.
R>
Zhunee glances around the room and says, "Someone pull my finger."
R>
Kneebiter Zhunee runs west.
>>is it intended that the 24-hour manual-change restriction is also preventing the game from automatically changing my stance when my timer expires?
This.
You can not skirt the manual change timer with PvP stealing. It will lock you Open since you are doing an aggressive action towards another player, but you are stuck Open until that original timer has expired. This is intended since you are acting in an aggressive manor multiple times in a short period, and allowing you to change back quickly can potentially be abused.
>>Or is the timer extended when I steal from a PC multiple times during a given period?
I believe the timer starts after your last theft, and is reset by any PC thefts after it. It may increase, but as I posted earlier it's shorter than 8 hours. You are being limited by the 24-48 hour timer right now.
This.
You can not skirt the manual change timer with PvP stealing. It will lock you Open since you are doing an aggressive action towards another player, but you are stuck Open until that original timer has expired. This is intended since you are acting in an aggressive manor multiple times in a short period, and allowing you to change back quickly can potentially be abused.
>>Or is the timer extended when I steal from a PC multiple times during a given period?
I believe the timer starts after your last theft, and is reset by any PC thefts after it. It may increase, but as I posted earlier it's shorter than 8 hours. You are being limited by the 24-48 hour timer right now.
>> You can not skirt the manual change timer with PvP stealing. It will lock you Open since you are doing an aggressive action towards another player, but you are stuck Open until that original timer has expired. This is intended since you are acting in an aggressive manor multiple times in a short period, and allowing you to change back quickly can potentially be abused.
It isn't skirting the manual timer; the two-hour lock is the method implemented which prevents abuse... I'm not sure where the communication disconnect is happening here. I'll try one more time.
As I understand it (and I'll be testing this over the next few days so that I can understand it better)...
1.) When you steal from another character, the game sets and locks you to PvP OPEN for 2 hours; at the end of those 2 hours, you are automatically reset to whatever your previous setting was.
2.) Whenever your PvP stance changes (manually or automatically) you are prevented from changing it manually for 24 hours; it can still be changed automatically, such as by stealing in the above example.
3.) The automatic change of PvP stance is not affected manual-change timer; that is to say, if I manually change my stance to CLOSED (for example), I can still be automatically changed to OPEN.
Now, I am willing to accept that there is an additional system in place that, when a player does something to cause an automatic change multiple times in a short span, either extends the length of time of the lock, or changes what their "manual" setting is stored as, which is what I think you've been trying to convey. In any case, regardless of the method, that's what's happened here; the combination of the 24-hour block and the 2-hour block resulted in the 2-hour block becoming a 24-hour block. I've actually just thought of another idea for a way to represent this, which might help.
All characters have a permanent PvP setting, and a temporary PvP setting. When I make a character, and I'm set to Permanent: Closed (default), Temporary: Null. I manually change myself to guarded, so now I'm set to Permanent: Guarded, Temporary: Null, and I can not change again manually for 24 hours. I then steal from someone, which locks me open for 2 hours, and now I am set to Permanent: Guarded, Temporary: Open. After two hours, I will revert to Permanent: Guarded, Temporary: Null. However, if that steal attempt was during the aforementioned 24-hour period, at the end of the 2 hours, I instead am either not reverting at all, or I am being changed (accidentally, it would seem) to Permanent: Open, Temporary: Null. In the case of the former, that would be a feature of the profile system, and is totally fine; I do however want to test it to make sure the messaging is correctly conveying what is happening. (As I admitted in my original post, I failed to read it because I assumed I knew what it said.) In the latter case however, it would appear to be a bug, which is causing the game to 'forget' what your permanent PvP setting is and overwrite it with your temporary setting, and that would need to be addressed.
I really am thankful to you for trying to help me get an answer to this question, and I hope that I'm not coming off as rude or unappreciative. It's just that based on the wording of the answers I'm reading, I think we're kind of talking past each other, and I think that a more comprehensive answer here is going to be dependent on me doing more testing, or getting a reply from someone who has access to the code.
I
Kneebiter Zhunee just arrived.
R>
Zhunee glances around the room and says, "Someone pull my finger."
R>
Kneebiter Zhunee runs west.
It isn't skirting the manual timer; the two-hour lock is the method implemented which prevents abuse... I'm not sure where the communication disconnect is happening here. I'll try one more time.
As I understand it (and I'll be testing this over the next few days so that I can understand it better)...
1.) When you steal from another character, the game sets and locks you to PvP OPEN for 2 hours; at the end of those 2 hours, you are automatically reset to whatever your previous setting was.
2.) Whenever your PvP stance changes (manually or automatically) you are prevented from changing it manually for 24 hours; it can still be changed automatically, such as by stealing in the above example.
3.) The automatic change of PvP stance is not affected manual-change timer; that is to say, if I manually change my stance to CLOSED (for example), I can still be automatically changed to OPEN.
Now, I am willing to accept that there is an additional system in place that, when a player does something to cause an automatic change multiple times in a short span, either extends the length of time of the lock, or changes what their "manual" setting is stored as, which is what I think you've been trying to convey. In any case, regardless of the method, that's what's happened here; the combination of the 24-hour block and the 2-hour block resulted in the 2-hour block becoming a 24-hour block. I've actually just thought of another idea for a way to represent this, which might help.
All characters have a permanent PvP setting, and a temporary PvP setting. When I make a character, and I'm set to Permanent: Closed (default), Temporary: Null. I manually change myself to guarded, so now I'm set to Permanent: Guarded, Temporary: Null, and I can not change again manually for 24 hours. I then steal from someone, which locks me open for 2 hours, and now I am set to Permanent: Guarded, Temporary: Open. After two hours, I will revert to Permanent: Guarded, Temporary: Null. However, if that steal attempt was during the aforementioned 24-hour period, at the end of the 2 hours, I instead am either not reverting at all, or I am being changed (accidentally, it would seem) to Permanent: Open, Temporary: Null. In the case of the former, that would be a feature of the profile system, and is totally fine; I do however want to test it to make sure the messaging is correctly conveying what is happening. (As I admitted in my original post, I failed to read it because I assumed I knew what it said.) In the latter case however, it would appear to be a bug, which is causing the game to 'forget' what your permanent PvP setting is and overwrite it with your temporary setting, and that would need to be addressed.
I really am thankful to you for trying to help me get an answer to this question, and I hope that I'm not coming off as rude or unappreciative. It's just that based on the wording of the answers I'm reading, I think we're kind of talking past each other, and I think that a more comprehensive answer here is going to be dependent on me doing more testing, or getting a reply from someone who has access to the code.
I
Kneebiter Zhunee just arrived.
R>
Zhunee glances around the room and says, "Someone pull my finger."
R>
Kneebiter Zhunee runs west.
Here is what I think you're not understanding. PvP stance is not something that is intended to be changed back and forth multiple times in a short period. This is the point for the 24 hour timer to prevent you from changing back and forth.
PvP stealing setting you to Open ignores this timer because you are acting in an aggressive manner towards another player, so the game sets your PvP stance accordingly.
When it changes back from Open to your original stance it does not ignore this timer. So when you set yourself Open the second time it ignored that your stance had recently been changed (intended), but going back to Guarded will not ignore the 24 hour timer (intended to prevent abuse).
So, you are now locked Open because you (the system, but your actions caused it) already changed your PvP stance once in 24 hours (when you were automatically changed back the first time) and the 2 hour timer is ignored. You will not be able to change your PvP stance again until that 24 hour timer is done (again intended).
Jumping back and forth between Open/Guarded every 2 hours is not something the GM's want happening.
PvP stealing setting you to Open ignores this timer because you are acting in an aggressive manner towards another player, so the game sets your PvP stance accordingly.
When it changes back from Open to your original stance it does not ignore this timer. So when you set yourself Open the second time it ignored that your stance had recently been changed (intended), but going back to Guarded will not ignore the 24 hour timer (intended to prevent abuse).
So, you are now locked Open because you (the system, but your actions caused it) already changed your PvP stance once in 24 hours (when you were automatically changed back the first time) and the 2 hour timer is ignored. You will not be able to change your PvP stance again until that 24 hour timer is done (again intended).
Jumping back and forth between Open/Guarded every 2 hours is not something the GM's want happening.
You keep saying that, I am understand that you're saying that, I've actually said several times now that I understand that you're saying that, and I am willing to accept that this may be correct, but I'm looking for evidence to support what you're saying, such as a post or a NEWS item or an Elanthipedia entry, or something along those lines. When my 24-hour timer has expired, which will be around midnight tonight, I'll be able to get that evidence by doing further testing. Additionally, my concern is that the messaging which is received when stealing from a PC may not be properly conveying what timers are being applied and how; it very well may be accomplishing that, but I won't know until either someone can offer some verification, or I can get that information myself. It's also important to realize that "working as intended" and "working properly" aren't always 100% congruous; it is possible that this system is both accomplishing its goal and bugged, which is what I was attempting to convey with my permanent/temporary explanation.
In any event, I'm going to play with it a little more tonight and see what I find, and I'll catalog the results on Elanthipedia for posterity.
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Kneebiter Zhunee just arrived.
R>
Zhunee glances around the room and says, "Someone pull my finger."
R>
Kneebiter Zhunee runs west.
In any event, I'm going to play with it a little more tonight and see what I find, and I'll catalog the results on Elanthipedia for posterity.
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Kneebiter Zhunee just arrived.
R>
Zhunee glances around the room and says, "Someone pull my finger."
R>
Kneebiter Zhunee runs west.
You might find it more productive to put these posts somewhere someone involved in stealing policy might actually read it if you desperately want a redname confirmation or something:
http://forums.play.net/forums/DragonRealms/DragonRealms%20Policy%20Discussions/Stealing%20policy/view
I actually feel like this has been confirmed in the past, but every PVP stealing discussion thus far has also been awful so I've blocked them all out of memory.
>Forgive my snark, but welcome to the life of a warrior mage.
http://forums.play.net/forums/DragonRealms/DragonRealms%20Policy%20Discussions/Stealing%20policy/view
I actually feel like this has been confirmed in the past, but every PVP stealing discussion thus far has also been awful so I've blocked them all out of memory.
>Forgive my snark, but welcome to the life of a warrior mage.
Oh cool, thanks. I didn't know there was a Stealing Policy folder, even; mark another tally in the "reasons a searchable forum would be a good idea" column.
A preliminary reading shows that there's definitely been some changes over the years; I've never had a character with much Stealing before, so I haven't really been up-to-date on these policies.
I also realized something while reading over the initial post announcing this addition to the game (the auto-Open function), which is that if this 24-hour locked-Open effect is intended, it has a major loop-hole: every time you steal from a player, your 2-hour timer gets reset (I'm pretty sure). So, if I steal from a player at 10am, the timer is set to expire at 12pm. If I steal from ten other players between 10am and 11am, the timer gets pushed back to 1pm. If I'm good for the next two hours, then at 1pm I get set back to whatever I was before. Meanwhile, if I steal from one player at 10am, and wait until my timer expires at 12pm, then I immediately steal from a second player, that would lock me back open, this time until 12pm the following day. In other words, I am punished (not really punishment, but you hopefully get my point) more for stealing on two distinct occasions than I am for stealing continuously for several hours and then taking two hours to cool down. This means that either the system isn't intended to have a 24-hour lock-Open, or it is intended, but is being executed in a very inefficient way. Of course the third option is that it's both intended, and my proposed loophole does not actually work, which (once more) I will learn tonight once I am able to test it a bit.
I
Kneebiter Zhunee just arrived.
R>
Zhunee glances around the room and says, "Someone pull my finger."
R>
Kneebiter Zhunee runs west.
A preliminary reading shows that there's definitely been some changes over the years; I've never had a character with much Stealing before, so I haven't really been up-to-date on these policies.
I also realized something while reading over the initial post announcing this addition to the game (the auto-Open function), which is that if this 24-hour locked-Open effect is intended, it has a major loop-hole: every time you steal from a player, your 2-hour timer gets reset (I'm pretty sure). So, if I steal from a player at 10am, the timer is set to expire at 12pm. If I steal from ten other players between 10am and 11am, the timer gets pushed back to 1pm. If I'm good for the next two hours, then at 1pm I get set back to whatever I was before. Meanwhile, if I steal from one player at 10am, and wait until my timer expires at 12pm, then I immediately steal from a second player, that would lock me back open, this time until 12pm the following day. In other words, I am punished (not really punishment, but you hopefully get my point) more for stealing on two distinct occasions than I am for stealing continuously for several hours and then taking two hours to cool down. This means that either the system isn't intended to have a 24-hour lock-Open, or it is intended, but is being executed in a very inefficient way. Of course the third option is that it's both intended, and my proposed loophole does not actually work, which (once more) I will learn tonight once I am able to test it a bit.
I
Kneebiter Zhunee just arrived.
R>
Zhunee glances around the room and says, "Someone pull my finger."
R>
Kneebiter Zhunee runs west.
