Enema of Doom.

Yikes.

~ Celestian Kougen Aensworth, Advisor of Ilithi

It is the destiny of those who can know what will be, to lead those who do not to guide them, to protect them, to lead them to enlightenment.

>You have discovered the Hidden village of Konoha's secret taijutsu master art... A Thousand Years of Pain! </narutard>

I wasn't going to go there for fear of "outting" myself but... yeah, first thing I thought of, too.

~ Celestian Kougen Aensworth, Advisor of Ilithi

It is the destiny of those who can know what will be, to lead those who do not to guide them, to protect them, to lead them to enlightenment.

Wow... I use gouge a lot... but I don't think I've seen THAT particular thing happen before...


When the rich wage war, it's the poor who die.
-Linkin Park, Hands Held High

>Naruto's awesome, I don't know what ya'll are talking about.

I read the manga, so dunno if it's made it into the anime, but basically '1000 years of pain!' is where Kakashi jabs his fingers up someone's butt.

I don't know where to post this exactly to get some GM attention, so I am going to post this here and in the offhand section.

so, something has changed. I logged in this morning and running my normal brawling script which does all the commands "left", to train brawling since it didn't matter, but today I am learning offhand and brawling. so did something change? are we going to have to brawl with our right hand?

Light blunt will only lead to a life of heartbreak and misery. Light edge to a lesser degree.

Axillus - Halfling Warrior Mage
>You charge your steel-toed footwrap at a musk hog.

I was just wondering, since a weapon's effectiveness is based on both stats and skill ranks, how much better is brawling at say 400 ranks or higher compared to 100, fighting at-level in either situation?

IMO there should be a pretty significant difference... even when non-combat brawling moves are fixed, brawling has some disadvantages....

One that has to do with Prydaens and their CLAW bonus is, while most brawl attacks do impact damage a CLAW is slice. That seems to do less damage to a specific area, but I can't be sure.

The second, bigger disadvantage was something I only realized recently, and I'll use an example for this. While using my 2HE at level, kills come from damaging a vital location, i.e. chest, too much and therefore destroying it. With brawling and LE (other than backstab) the hits land just as often, but due to the randomness of where they land, they get spread out. What this means is, training brawling might be a bit easier... but using it in a tough situation where you need something dead, FAST, is not so great.

At least, at low levels, hence my question.

Is my rambling making any sense? Thanks in advance for any responses/corrections.


A sickly tree grumbles, "Where da heck am I?"
A sickly tree shuffles west.

I've never found brawling to be a viable weapon with any of the characters I've played. It's great for free tdps and maintaining some semblance of balance while dancing, but when push comes to shove I'll take my 115 ME over my 180 brawling. At least with the ME I can kill something. It could very well be that I don't know a decent combo for brawling, but I've always found it lacking in the damage department. Which is ok mind you, it has enough other great uses that I don't need brawling to equal my junk weapons. If you're feeling down about brawling train sling or short staff for a bit :D

~Ranger Hanryu, Sword of House Calibanor
Keeper of the CEC
http://www.kynevon.info/CombatEquipmentCompendium.xls

I think that the damage output from brawling depends heavily on your stats. More so, it seems, than other weapons. The higher your strength and agility, the better off you are.It's true that I can always kill something a lot faster with my scimitar, but I can still do quite a bit of damage with brawling. I also wear heavy chain gloves, which I'm sure adds a bit too.

---

You are Golgol Silverhair, an Elf.

Yes, but think of what woulda happened if that had been a bastie ;)


and about the stats thing, that's why i asked if anyone high enough circle to HAVE really high stats would care to comment and give us soem insight into the "late-game" brawling damage.


A sickly tree grumbles, "Where da heck am I?"
A sickly tree shuffles west.

That's so completely opposite to my experiences that it made me laugh, but it DOES seem to answer the question I originally posted it seems.

And the bonus can have a problem with mechanics that makes it less effective than it seems it should be, I didn't say it WAS the disadvantage.

I'd like some clarification though, do those creatures have a resistance to slice and are weak to impact? Is it a nice player forged bastie, or something store-bought? Basically any relavent factors like that. I prefer to compare my CLAW to a slicing-type attack, since it usually seems to do the most damage besides maybe kick.

Thanks for the info though, it's appreciated


A sickly tree grumbles, "Where da heck am I?"
A sickly tree shuffles west.

I did read the post on the parry stick, and I remove it with the rest of my armor pretty frequently, like when I pick boxes. I still had trouble tackling a novice and notice problems every so often, so I continue to hope for a fix besides "remove and wear your parry stick"

and yes, raising your stats helps with brawling weapon damage, but I don't think HOW MUCH was ever stats or discussed. Stats also help with the damage output of weapons that are suited to gaining attack power, which already have a significant headstart in damage in the first place.

The post by the player with a few hundred brawling ranks makes me optimistic about what will happen as my stats get better, though.


Retta licks a bug-legged rum-soaked apple.

You exclaim to the cougar, "You egg-shell! Die!"

If I "don't really notice" my brawling weapons doing better in an at-level situation as my strength increses, I have a problem.

As brawling ranks and strength increase, so does the difficulty of the critters you fight. So the increase in brawling ranks should let you hit and hurt them. However, as that goes up, you move up the critter ladder.

Hunting at level, at a hundred ranks, brawling is not working as well as HE and certainly not as well as 2HE at level. It's like LE... might need some love. Same goes for underhunting... brawling does not compare to a good forged blade.

If you can brawl at the a similar level of effectiveness - not in terms of damage per hit, but your basic damage over time, since brawling is faster - and achieve stuns, even if it's stun after stun instead of one viscious stun, close to a forged weapon, then brawling is fine. If you CAN'T use brawling as well as a forged blade when hunting at level, then brawling should get an upgrade. I don't know exactly what upgrade, but something to make it more appealing. I can tell you right now, if I wanted to min/max, I'd be using the bastie (either way it was SWAPped) in the open and a tago and sabre in the shadows.

I know other weapons have their problems, LE and Crossbow especially, but this is the one I am focusing on now since it's my primary weapon.

Am I making sense?


Retta licks a bug-legged rum-soaked apple.

You exclaim to the cougar, "You egg-shell! Die!"

You are technically correct.

The difference is that the brawling weapon would gain more from it than an equivalent non-brawling weapon.

It's difficult to quantify, but would be mostly noticable over large values of strength and with low-statted but good suited comparison weapons (for example, an LB gauntlet from the crossing shop).

>>items such as handwraps with crushed glass

The ghetto brawling weapons were from a tent at the recent festival. ( http://www.elanthipedia.com/wiki/Makeshift_Killing_Supplies )

That link has the inventory but not the appraisals.

I <3 that tent. I'm not sure about the rest; I look forward to the answers myself.

---

>steal prydaen kit
Moving stealthily, you manage to grab a kit right from underneath the True Bard D'Or's very nose.
>drop kit
You think better of leaving this evidence out where anyone can see it, and stuff it somewhere out of sight.

<<If I understand this correctly, for someone starting out, the flat bonus seems more appropriate until some point in the future where the % would be greater.>>

<<Is this correct?>>

Not necessarily. The brawling weapons with a flat bonus will overide any sort of bonus you get from armor worn of that part. Let me give an example.

Elbowing with no armor or cloth has a damage bonus based off strength and stamina, now if you were to wear brawling weapons with this than yes a flat bonus could be beneficial.

Say you wear plat armor, now in this situation it might be worse to wear the elbow guards cause the flat bonus is less than what the plate armor gives.

Third scenario is if you do impact damage with your elbow and want to do slicing or piercing instead.

This is how i understand the brawling weapon type stuff, anyone can feel free to correct mistakes.

Yamcer

---

"You know, while I understand the importance of seeing the (personal) validity in other's arguments, it's impossible for me to believe fully that others are correct. If their argument was correct, I'd change mine." - My GF

So, if you are wearing plate, the % increase would make more sense? Do they interact that way? Or is the % increase only based on your stats, which from what I understand are the base damage stats for brawling.

>>If I understand the description of the brawling weapons, some of them add a percentage to your normal damage and some of them add a flat bonus.

>>If I understand this correctly, for someone starting out, the flat bonus seems more appropriate until some point in the future where the % would be greater.

>>Is this correct?

As the others have stated there are a ton of what ifs to ponder there and it all comes down to armor worn vs your stats vs the type of damage you want to do. The brawling weapons will take precedence over armor in all cases if the brawling weapon is worn. You'll have to decide what works best for you as I'm not going to be giving out anything resembling precise information, sorry.

>>Also, I saw a list of brawling weapons available, but it did not include items such as handwraps with crushed glass. Are these in the same location (muspari) and only available at the trader shop?

Also as stated there were some new ones sold at a festival merchant. As we continue to add stores and expand I'm sure that more variations will become possible at regular shops.

>>Furthermore, does MoF play nice with the brawling weapons? If not, which one is better for dealing damage usually?

These two should work properly together.

>>Has the parry stick issue been fixed? What exactly is the problem?

I'm not at all sure what "issue" you mean. If you are refering to the generally accepted theory that parry sticks in some manner broke non-damaging brawling moves, the issue is with the moves themselves and the only connection between then and parry sticks lies deep within the imagination of certain individuals. The problems with non-damaging brawling moves are known and will be fixed when we have a chance to fix them.

GM Oolan Jeel

"This island is made mainly of coal and surrounded by fish. Only an organizing genius could produce a shortage of coal and fish at the same time." Aneurin Bevan, May 1945, on World War II rationing and shortages in England.

If it helps any, Hanryu wears HP gauntlets, and while I found that brass knuckles gave a very slight bit more punch damage, it wasn't really worth wearing them over plate. Elbow spikes over leather though, was an easy call to make.

~Hanryu Ves'Shomis
Sword of House Calibanor, Ambassador of the Ilithi Court, Emerald Knight, Keeper of the CEC, ... still a Ranger
http://www.kynevon.info/CombatEquipmentCompendium.xls

<<Anyone know if brawling weapons affect stealth hinderance? I know the parry sticks do.>>

I really, REALLY hope this is not the case. I have not noticed any particular difficulty with stealth while using brawling gear, but I'll put it this way... holding a sabre in your right hand doesn't hurt your stealth ability to my knowledge, so a parry stick and knuckles shouldn't either. Brawling should be on par with other weapons once the non-damaging moves are fixed, but throwing in penalties like that would be horrible.

Did I read the post right? Can anyone confirm whether or not brawling gear interferes with stealth?


J>slap lake
Beating up on a poor defenseless lake? For shame