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I've been training a new character and I'm finding it impossible to train parry. I've tried louts one on one (stance parry 100/evasion 80), rats one on one (same stance), and frogs one on one all with the same result.
Not parrying anything, not getting past learning, and dying or coming close to dying before I'm able to run away.
I've mostly been using a broadsword, but I've tried every edge the veteran will give you and ran jobs for people around town to buy the ones he doesn't carry but changing weapons doesn't help.
So what can you do to train parry (right now I've given up and am just listening to classes) and when are you actually able to learn the skill in combat? I don't remember having this much trouble the first time around with my barb
Thanks
At low ranks, penalizing your evasion will strongly hurt your attempts to parry. I suggest you check your encumbrance and hindrance to ensure they are on the lower end so that you stand a chance at evading the attack to weaken it prior to your parry attempt and also stance up evasion. You can also concider a shield which will work better than parry at low ranks. We are well aware of the many problems and imbalances within combat, particularly at low ranks, and are working to resolve this.
GM Oolan Jeel
"The difference between theory and practice is that in theory, there is no difference between theory and practice."
- Richard Moore
GM Oolan Jeel
"The difference between theory and practice is that in theory, there is no difference between theory and practice."
- Richard Moore
Okay thanks both of you, I will try stance evasion instead. I'm just using a leather coat, helm, and gloves from the armory in Crossing for armor. I think that might be the lowest hindering armor I can buy as a new guy.
Shield works great at this level but I rolled up another barb so I need to get parry too. I died so much trying to learn it I dropped down to ~3.5 ranks from the 4 you start with.
I found a good teacher at the arch [this is in TF] so I'll just listen until he stops and then try combat again with stance evasion instead of parry.
Thanks!
Shield works great at this level but I rolled up another barb so I need to get parry too. I died so much trying to learn it I dropped down to ~3.5 ranks from the 4 you start with.
I found a good teacher at the arch [this is in TF] so I'll just listen until he stops and then try combat again with stance evasion instead of parry.
Thanks!
This is in TF? Ugh. Contact me IG on chatter and we'll talk. I've got some tips for you that may help. I play Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hide.
________________________________________
Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former.
- Albert Einstein
________________________________________
Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former.
- Albert Einstein
<<I'm just using a leather coat, helm, and gloves from the armory in Crossing for armor.
My rule's always been, no torso armor until you have 50 ranks in that armor. Load up on accessories like for you legs and maybe your arms, and you'll still learn armors just fine. It'll remove a significant amount of hinderance too.
This is one of the quirks of the system. It's also an example of one of the things Dart said he wants to change with armor.
Nikpack
Climbing List:http://www.elanthipedia.com/wiki/Climbing_skill
Swimming List:http://www.elanthipedia.com/wiki/Swimming_skill
And while I am evil, I try to avoid being just plain mean.
-Z
My rule's always been, no torso armor until you have 50 ranks in that armor. Load up on accessories like for you legs and maybe your arms, and you'll still learn armors just fine. It'll remove a significant amount of hinderance too.
This is one of the quirks of the system. It's also an example of one of the things Dart said he wants to change with armor.
Nikpack
Climbing List:http://www.elanthipedia.com/wiki/Climbing_skill
Swimming List:http://www.elanthipedia.com/wiki/Swimming_skill
And while I am evil, I try to avoid being just plain mean.
-Z
>>My rule's always been, no torso armor until you have 50 ranks in that armor. Load up on accessories like for you legs and maybe your arms, and you'll still learn armors just fine. It'll remove a significant amount of hinderance too.<<
QFT. Reduce burden and hindrance as much as possible and make sure you're parrying with a weapon that is at least fairly balanced or better. There are a few other methods to overcome this issue as well, such as classes in evasion or parry for a day or so. It's amazing what 15 ranks in parry and evasion will do for you in rats.
________________________________________
Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former.
- Albert Einstein
QFT. Reduce burden and hindrance as much as possible and make sure you're parrying with a weapon that is at least fairly balanced or better. There are a few other methods to overcome this issue as well, such as classes in evasion or parry for a day or so. It's amazing what 15 ranks in parry and evasion will do for you in rats.
________________________________________
Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former.
- Albert Einstein
I used to have the same problem, but what really helped was setting my stance to attack 0 (to utilize the extra stance points -- key for defense training), parry 100, shield 70 and evasion 3x. I parry with a parry stick or a fairly balanced MB or halberd. I get hit a lot less using this method than I did doing 100/8x/0 or even 100/100/x.
~Thilan
~Thilan
Parrying with 0 ranks is almost impossible. If you can get taught even a single rank, it will help. Also, shield works well at 1% at low ranks, so once you have maybe 3 ranks of evasion and 1 rank of parry you can stance evasion 79/parry 100/shield 1 and learn a bit. Parry on the low end is still broken, imo.
>>Parrying with 0 ranks is almost impossible. If you can get taught even a single rank, it will help.
^This
>>once you have maybe 3 ranks of evasion and 1 rank of parry you can stance evasion 79/parry 100/shield 1 and learn a bit.
^This is the method that I use with new characters, too. Haven't had a problem learning parry. Getting good effects out of the skill is a different matter, but at least it learns.
>>Parry on the low end is still broken, imo.
Yeah. I'm glad that nobody seems to be disputing this fact lately. It gives me hope.
Ogdaro
"If at first you don't succeed, try, try again. Then quit. There's no point in being a damn fool about it." - W. C. Fields
^This
>>once you have maybe 3 ranks of evasion and 1 rank of parry you can stance evasion 79/parry 100/shield 1 and learn a bit.
^This is the method that I use with new characters, too. Haven't had a problem learning parry. Getting good effects out of the skill is a different matter, but at least it learns.
>>Parry on the low end is still broken, imo.
Yeah. I'm glad that nobody seems to be disputing this fact lately. It gives me hope.
Ogdaro
"If at first you don't succeed, try, try again. Then quit. There's no point in being a damn fool about it." - W. C. Fields
I taught myself to 26 ranks and now I can parry louts (can't learn too well though, guess i learned too much from classes) so hopefully when I'm done with them I can learn decently as I progress through the creatures.
One of the exp changes they should do is have no skill start at 0 either. I find it hard to move a lot of things off of 0 but once I get that first rank it is much easier
One of the exp changes they should do is have no skill start at 0 either. I find it hard to move a lot of things off of 0 but once I get that first rank it is much easier
>>Wow, you're getting good at trolling, Thilan.
<3
>>Every character starts with 0 ranks. Some guilds give you a few freebies.
Yeah, I meant what skills you get once you've joined a guild. I'm guessing they're the same as the circle 1 skills on Zairius's site (with primary replaced by certain specific weapons/armor; IIRC my Cleric got ranks of MB and LC). This should be expanded for every guild to include at least a rank in skills like parry/shield/evasion/MO and even some survivals that are pains to get that first rank in (like perception and disarm/lockpicking).
~Thilan
<3
>>Every character starts with 0 ranks. Some guilds give you a few freebies.
Yeah, I meant what skills you get once you've joined a guild. I'm guessing they're the same as the circle 1 skills on Zairius's site (with primary replaced by certain specific weapons/armor; IIRC my Cleric got ranks of MB and LC). This should be expanded for every guild to include at least a rank in skills like parry/shield/evasion/MO and even some survivals that are pains to get that first rank in (like perception and disarm/lockpicking).
~Thilan
perception: Rank 1 - Stand in louts for about 5 minutes, perception rank. disarming and picking? Yes, those are a pain, as is foraging (which remains a pain throughout).
-Croegar
"If somebody is alert enough to start popping AEs because they think you're there, you've failed at a critical aspect of stealth..."
-Z
-Croegar
"If somebody is alert enough to start popping AEs because they think you're there, you've failed at a critical aspect of stealth..."
-Z
>>I'm guessing they're the same as the circle 1 skills on Zairius's site
Nope, they are about half that. Like, for instance, you might get all your primary skillset reqs for circle 1 but you don't get any of your secondary/tert skills, or you might only get half a circle's worth. Pretty sure they are artifacts from before the req tweaks, but I'm not sure if all guilds are affected like this (I know for sure at least half of them are, though.)
DISCLAIMER: THIS POSTER IS NOT A MEMBER OF STAFF AND HIS INFORMATION IS/MIGHT BE WRONG.
Nope, they are about half that. Like, for instance, you might get all your primary skillset reqs for circle 1 but you don't get any of your secondary/tert skills, or you might only get half a circle's worth. Pretty sure they are artifacts from before the req tweaks, but I'm not sure if all guilds are affected like this (I know for sure at least half of them are, though.)
DISCLAIMER: THIS POSTER IS NOT A MEMBER OF STAFF AND HIS INFORMATION IS/MIGHT BE WRONG.
>perception: Rank 1 - Stand in louts for about 5 minutes, perception rank. disarming and picking? Yes, those are a pain, as is foraging (which remains a pain throughout).
Actually, foraging is the fastest way to learn the first rank of perception outside of classes.
Disarming and picking aren't actually too bad as long as you can actually find a lout box. The trick is not trying to ID the trap or lock. The calcs for disarm identify and pick identify are broken at low ranks.
Actually, foraging is the fastest way to learn the first rank of perception outside of classes.
Disarming and picking aren't actually too bad as long as you can actually find a lout box. The trick is not trying to ID the trap or lock. The calcs for disarm identify and pick identify are broken at low ranks.
Hunt lout for a long time, remembering to use hunt frequently, and get your perception up before attempting to open boxes. This should also help with that infernal IDing. Foraging, also great on perception...its just awful on....foraging.
-Croegar
"If somebody is alert enough to start popping AEs because they think you're there, you've failed at a critical aspect of stealth..."
-Z
-Croegar
"If somebody is alert enough to start popping AEs because they think you're there, you've failed at a critical aspect of stealth..."
-Z
HUNT doesn't seem to train if you have 0 in either Perception or Stalking.
At least it didn't at one point.
Magic's Death Caraamon Makdasi,
Gor'Tog Barbarian Extrordi...Well somewhat average
Hunta Talna Kortok, built by Gor'Togs, for Gor'Togs
http://www.angelfire.com/rpg2/caraamon/home.html
At least it didn't at one point.
Magic's Death Caraamon Makdasi,
Gor'Tog Barbarian Extrordi...Well somewhat average
Hunta Talna Kortok, built by Gor'Togs, for Gor'Togs
http://www.angelfire.com/rpg2/caraamon/home.html
It still doesn't
It also doesn't need to be used around critters until after 40 ranks, you can do it from the safety of town after listening to one rank worth of a class
~Arwinia
Thieves will continue to be dominated by the awesome power of the perceive health ability - that which causes rivers to dry up, babies to cry, and the earth to shake.
Stand back mortal, lest ye health be perceived.
-Ssra
It also doesn't need to be used around critters until after 40 ranks, you can do it from the safety of town after listening to one rank worth of a class
~Arwinia
Thieves will continue to be dominated by the awesome power of the perceive health ability - that which causes rivers to dry up, babies to cry, and the earth to shake.
Stand back mortal, lest ye health be perceived.
-Ssra
> Yeah. I'm glad that nobody seems to be disputing this fact lately. It gives me hope.
All defenses on the low end are broken. Due to hinderance and burden at low levels, evasion is very ineffective and difficult to train unless you ditch armor...which does not work well both in terms of rational IC thought (I want to survive, so I must ditch my armor!) and basic game design (Let's make a system that penalizes new players more for wearing armor than for not wearing it!). Parry and shield depend heavily on how well you do or do not evade, so if evasion is broken, they will be broken too, and this is also why what Oolan advised is absolutely correct. You need to maximize your evasion if you want to learn parry at low levels. The only reason shield manages to hold its own at low levels is because it has some features that make it always operate at a certain minimal level, which is usually enough to deal with low level critters at least.
Yes, fixing all these issues is very very high priority right now. Expect the first round of tweaks to hit the Test instance in the next week or so.
- GM Dartenian
If you think you can do a thing or think you can't do a thing, you're right. - Henry Ford
All defenses on the low end are broken. Due to hinderance and burden at low levels, evasion is very ineffective and difficult to train unless you ditch armor...which does not work well both in terms of rational IC thought (I want to survive, so I must ditch my armor!) and basic game design (Let's make a system that penalizes new players more for wearing armor than for not wearing it!). Parry and shield depend heavily on how well you do or do not evade, so if evasion is broken, they will be broken too, and this is also why what Oolan advised is absolutely correct. You need to maximize your evasion if you want to learn parry at low levels. The only reason shield manages to hold its own at low levels is because it has some features that make it always operate at a certain minimal level, which is usually enough to deal with low level critters at least.
Yes, fixing all these issues is very very high priority right now. Expect the first round of tweaks to hit the Test instance in the next week or so.
- GM Dartenian
If you think you can do a thing or think you can't do a thing, you're right. - Henry Ford
<<Expect the first round of tweaks to hit the Test instance in the next week or so.
Wow, I can't wait.
Nikpack
Climbing List:http://www.elanthipedia.com/wiki/Climbing_skill
Swimming List:http://www.elanthipedia.com/wiki/Swimming_skill
And while I am evil, I try to avoid being just plain mean.
-Z
Wow, I can't wait.
Nikpack
Climbing List:http://www.elanthipedia.com/wiki/Climbing_skill
Swimming List:http://www.elanthipedia.com/wiki/Swimming_skill
And while I am evil, I try to avoid being just plain mean.
-Z
Sounds good, maybe I'll just train survivals for a couple months until the fixes are in.
It does seem like things at low levels also teach parry much lower than other defenses. I ended up teaching myself up to 38 or so ranks (including the 4 I got when I joined). At this time I had 4 or so evasion, 5 shield.
I set my script up to block with shield for 150 seconds or until locked. Then it trains 3 melee weapons in parry stance, hide/stalk in parry stance, then a bow in evasion stance.
I parry almost every attack and I'm in multi situations with 3+ creatures the entire time. So I'm basically parrying for 20 minutes, partially evading for 22.5, shield for 2.5
Right now my evasion is on the same rank as parry and leather/shield/multi are all within 2 or 3 ranks and those 4 are constantly locked. Yet I can't get parry above concentrating on a wall even though I'm parrying every attack.
Is that an armor hinderance thing too? Or does parry just teach much less than other defenses?
It does seem like things at low levels also teach parry much lower than other defenses. I ended up teaching myself up to 38 or so ranks (including the 4 I got when I joined). At this time I had 4 or so evasion, 5 shield.
I set my script up to block with shield for 150 seconds or until locked. Then it trains 3 melee weapons in parry stance, hide/stalk in parry stance, then a bow in evasion stance.
I parry almost every attack and I'm in multi situations with 3+ creatures the entire time. So I'm basically parrying for 20 minutes, partially evading for 22.5, shield for 2.5
Right now my evasion is on the same rank as parry and leather/shield/multi are all within 2 or 3 ranks and those 4 are constantly locked. Yet I can't get parry above concentrating on a wall even though I'm parrying every attack.
Is that an armor hinderance thing too? Or does parry just teach much less than other defenses?
I've been using the same combat script since eels... it checks shield from time to time and switches to parry if shield is locked, then switches back when shield goes below dazed again.
Parry is currently 236, while shield is 233. It keeps them nicely balanced for a weapon prime/armor secondary.
"Body parts have a static number of hit points and at higher levels it is very easy for a single blow to obliterate, say, your chest. This is a Bad Thing."
-GM Dartenian
Gene Police! You, outta the pool!
Parry is currently 236, while shield is 233. It keeps them nicely balanced for a weapon prime/armor secondary.
"Body parts have a static number of hit points and at higher levels it is very easy for a single blow to obliterate, say, your chest. This is a Bad Thing."
-GM Dartenian
Gene Police! You, outta the pool!
I do the same thing. Parry was about ten ranks higher than shield until recently (I think I'm nearing the black leuc cap, so it slowed down) and MO was my highest skill until something like 200 ranks.
I can't wait to move out of leucs and back to swarms. It's so slow in here! My weapons are way lower than defenses, though, so no luck yet.
"Body parts have a static number of hit points and at higher levels it is very easy for a single blow to obliterate, say, your chest. This is a Bad Thing."
-GM Dartenian
Gene Police! You, outta the pool!
I can't wait to move out of leucs and back to swarms. It's so slow in here! My weapons are way lower than defenses, though, so no luck yet.
"Body parts have a static number of hit points and at higher levels it is very easy for a single blow to obliterate, say, your chest. This is a Bad Thing."
-GM Dartenian
Gene Police! You, outta the pool!
