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I know this has been said before, by almost every bard, but we are still very nerfed the way our magic works. There have been huge improvements, but the same problems still exist in varying degrees. For example:
1. Screams. The recovery time is rediculous, as a bard we have mastered our vocal control. There shouldnt be any delay starting up a vocal enchante after a scream, or talking for that matter. I can understand not popping off another scream immediately, but not a enchante.
2. Resolve. Still my favorite but..... A. The delay time is waaaaay to slow. You could sail a galleon thru it. Unacceptable. A snap cast type option would be nice. B. The vocal/magic/mana used vs. how long the opponent is down is is waaaaay to short, especially in a CvC situation. See mind blast or traders coin thump trick.
3. Maelstrom. Maybe its me, Im still just not that impressed, and its soon to be nerfed. Heck, make me happy and take away the singers range penalties, and not nerf it
4. Misdirection. The full benefits for this are completely out of reach, plain and simple. Has any PC bard actually used this and stayed in hiding yet?
5. Abandoned Heart needs more power. I wanna get hit by opponents interal organs at 25 mana.
6. Weapon(s), armor, parry, multi reqs. Still too restraining. Doesnt let a bard train they way he/she wants too. My position has always been for bards is: Choose a weapon, choose parry or evasion, choose a armor or shield. (In Kleis's case, its all of the above, but he was raised a poor barb child..) For a multi-op req, see #2. Maybe the bit based exp will change this, I hope.
7. Have something in place so we can buff up at least 2-3 enchantes. Or at least have a enchante 'linger' in effect for 1-2 minutes. i.e. Start pyre, stop pyre, resolve, throw naptha, sing heart. have cookout. ect ect.
8. Im not all negative so here's the good: A.The grace=Amazing teaching aid. B.The lilt. Amazing keeps ya breathing aid. Heck, use enough mana, you may not need that knob on the top of your neck. Still miss the spirit part though. C. Pyre. Fun for the inner pyro in all off us. But we should be allowed to set the non-drinkable grain alcohol on fire, and no delays or pulses either.
Robo
A dust bunny furtively tugs a label from Niteshiver's clothing that reads, "Closet Conservative".
> 1. Screams.
Full rewrite and expansion planned, but on hold pending contested spell/ability issues.
> 2. Resolve.
A quickcast option -may- happen, but no promises. The durations may change, but again no promises. The question is whether Resolve is too short, or the others are too long.
> 3. Maelstrom.
Maelstrom breaks the caps in more ways than one by taking backdoor routes. The nerf isn't optional. Even with a nerf, it will likely still be one of the best defense boosters out there.
> 4. Misdirection.
Fully rewriting this one, as noted at the last meeting.
> 5. Abandoned Heart needs more power.
Hearts is not intended to be a quick kill spell, nor is it going to be. The fatigue hit is the primary feature.
> 6. Weapon(s), armor, parry, multi reqs.
Reqs are not changing again unless we change the entire experience system. They are the way they are because we were required to fit certain criteria. Allowing a choice between parry and evasion, for example, isn't going to happen, since they are both in different skillsets, and different learning brackets (secondary vs tert). We make parry optional, we'll have to put in a new weapon req to replace it. I spent more time than I care to admit reviewing existing bard skills, and parry was simply by FAR the best choice for that slot, as it would (a) minimalize backtraining, and (b) guarantee bards have at least some minimal defense skills.
> 7. Have something in place so we can buff up at least 2-3 enchantes. Or at least have a enchante 'linger' in effect for 1-2 minutes. i.e. Start pyre, stop pyre, resolve, throw naptha, sing heart. have cookout. ect ect.
Maybe. We've been allowed to pack more features in the average enchante than would normally be allowed for a spell of that tier specifically because of their inherent limitations. If I start removing the limitations, I'll likely have to start trimming back features too. If I do allow more lingering ala Snakes, it will be lingering past the completion of the song, not just start-stop "casting", so it still wouldn't be good for what you are looking at.
> But we should be allowed to set the non-drinkable grain alcohol on fire, and no delays or pulses either.
Not possible for resource reasons. I can't have Pyre checking for all potential flammables in the area every fraction of a second, or even every second or two. It would seriously add to lag, especially in crowded or cluttered areas.
- GM Dartenian
"You ain't seen nothin' yet!" - Al Jolson
LiveJournal: http://www.livejournal.com/users/dartenian/
Full rewrite and expansion planned, but on hold pending contested spell/ability issues.
> 2. Resolve.
A quickcast option -may- happen, but no promises. The durations may change, but again no promises. The question is whether Resolve is too short, or the others are too long.
> 3. Maelstrom.
Maelstrom breaks the caps in more ways than one by taking backdoor routes. The nerf isn't optional. Even with a nerf, it will likely still be one of the best defense boosters out there.
> 4. Misdirection.
Fully rewriting this one, as noted at the last meeting.
> 5. Abandoned Heart needs more power.
Hearts is not intended to be a quick kill spell, nor is it going to be. The fatigue hit is the primary feature.
> 6. Weapon(s), armor, parry, multi reqs.
Reqs are not changing again unless we change the entire experience system. They are the way they are because we were required to fit certain criteria. Allowing a choice between parry and evasion, for example, isn't going to happen, since they are both in different skillsets, and different learning brackets (secondary vs tert). We make parry optional, we'll have to put in a new weapon req to replace it. I spent more time than I care to admit reviewing existing bard skills, and parry was simply by FAR the best choice for that slot, as it would (a) minimalize backtraining, and (b) guarantee bards have at least some minimal defense skills.
> 7. Have something in place so we can buff up at least 2-3 enchantes. Or at least have a enchante 'linger' in effect for 1-2 minutes. i.e. Start pyre, stop pyre, resolve, throw naptha, sing heart. have cookout. ect ect.
Maybe. We've been allowed to pack more features in the average enchante than would normally be allowed for a spell of that tier specifically because of their inherent limitations. If I start removing the limitations, I'll likely have to start trimming back features too. If I do allow more lingering ala Snakes, it will be lingering past the completion of the song, not just start-stop "casting", so it still wouldn't be good for what you are looking at.
> But we should be allowed to set the non-drinkable grain alcohol on fire, and no delays or pulses either.
Not possible for resource reasons. I can't have Pyre checking for all potential flammables in the area every fraction of a second, or even every second or two. It would seriously add to lag, especially in crowded or cluttered areas.
- GM Dartenian
"You ain't seen nothin' yet!" - Al Jolson
LiveJournal: http://www.livejournal.com/users/dartenian/
>>A quickcast option -may- happen, but no promises.
>Jaws drop.
>>We've been allowed to pack more features in the average enchante than would normally be allowed for a spell of that tier specifically because of their inherent limitations. If I start removing the limitations, I'll likely have to start trimming back features too.
I think the limitations are pretty steep though, that's the problem. Especially for Enchantes that simply have simple single function effects. With Enchantes like Abandoned Heart or Desert's Maelstrom--yeah, sure I can see that the effects are greater than the average spell and thus have the startup. Other Enchantes such as Caress of the Sun or Merelew's Legacy, no, I can't say that they have effects that are spectacular enough to warrent such the staggered start. It really defeats the purpose unless you can predict far in advance that you will be up against something that uses what the Enchante is supposed to defend against.
~The one who is obsessed with power.
__
http://soundsoftime.bravehost.com - The Sounds of Time
http://soundsoftime.bravehost.com/bard_planner.xls - New Personal Bard Planner
>Jaws drop.
>>We've been allowed to pack more features in the average enchante than would normally be allowed for a spell of that tier specifically because of their inherent limitations. If I start removing the limitations, I'll likely have to start trimming back features too.
I think the limitations are pretty steep though, that's the problem. Especially for Enchantes that simply have simple single function effects. With Enchantes like Abandoned Heart or Desert's Maelstrom--yeah, sure I can see that the effects are greater than the average spell and thus have the startup. Other Enchantes such as Caress of the Sun or Merelew's Legacy, no, I can't say that they have effects that are spectacular enough to warrent such the staggered start. It really defeats the purpose unless you can predict far in advance that you will be up against something that uses what the Enchante is supposed to defend against.
~The one who is obsessed with power.
__
http://soundsoftime.bravehost.com - The Sounds of Time
http://soundsoftime.bravehost.com/bard_planner.xls - New Personal Bard Planner
>>6. Weapon(s), armor, parry, multi reqs. Still too restraining. Doesnt let a bard train they way he/she wants too. My position has always been for bards is: Choose a weapon, choose parry or evasion, choose a armor or shield. (In Kleis's case, its all of the above, but he was raised a poor barb child..) For a multi-op req, see #2. Maybe the bit based exp will change this, I hope.
I think we our defenses are horribly low as it is. Its good to be able to defend yourself without using magic. I mean as long as resolve takes you need to be able to dodge parry or jump out of the way until the song can kick in and knock your opponent down or out. I know that parry is a pain for the way you train but it really is a nice way to defend yourself.
Even if you arent a combat bard you need to be able to defend yourself. Bards are ALWAYS under attack by someone. If its not the blue cloaks then its just someone who doesnt like our music or outfit. we as a guild need to be able to protect ourselves and the younger bards too.
~Bardette Sasabee
I think we our defenses are horribly low as it is. Its good to be able to defend yourself without using magic. I mean as long as resolve takes you need to be able to dodge parry or jump out of the way until the song can kick in and knock your opponent down or out. I know that parry is a pain for the way you train but it really is a nice way to defend yourself.
Even if you arent a combat bard you need to be able to defend yourself. Bards are ALWAYS under attack by someone. If its not the blue cloaks then its just someone who doesnt like our music or outfit. we as a guild need to be able to protect ourselves and the younger bards too.
~Bardette Sasabee
>>3. Maelstrom. Maybe its me, Im still just not that impressed, and its soon to be nerfed. Heck, make me happy and take away the singers range penalties, and not nerf it
Maelstrom is really a nice song for learning multi and parry, so thats probably why you arent that impressed! :)
I love your idea for pyre!
>>C. Pyre. Fun for the inner pyro in all off us. But we should be allowed to set the non-drinkable grain alcohol on fire, and no delays or pulses either.
Of course after we blew up everyones drinks we would need great defenses!
~Bardette Sasabee
Maelstrom is really a nice song for learning multi and parry, so thats probably why you arent that impressed! :)
I love your idea for pyre!
>>C. Pyre. Fun for the inner pyro in all off us. But we should be allowed to set the non-drinkable grain alcohol on fire, and no delays or pulses either.
Of course after we blew up everyones drinks we would need great defenses!
~Bardette Sasabee
>>Not possible for resource reasons. I can't have Pyre checking for all potential flammables in the area every fraction of a second, or even every second or two. It would seriously add to lag, especially in crowded or cluttered areas.
giggle cant you see us walking into a party just to have everyones drinks burst into flames!
Useff grabs hes head an moans, "my lemonade is aflame!"
Come on dart dont be such a stick in the mud! :)
~Bardette Sasabee
giggle cant you see us walking into a party just to have everyones drinks burst into flames!
Useff grabs hes head an moans, "my lemonade is aflame!"
Come on dart dont be such a stick in the mud! :)
~Bardette Sasabee
>> 5. Abandoned Heart needs more power. I wanna get hit by opponents interal organs at 25 mana.
I would love to see this song have a bit more punch too. I did kill a pecc with it one day though. of course I had chopped off all its legs and let is lay there listening to me sing. I think it just finally died of boredom. BUT I was singing abandon when it died!
~Bardette Sasabee
I would love to see this song have a bit more punch too. I did kill a pecc with it one day though. of course I had chopped off all its legs and let is lay there listening to me sing. I think it just finally died of boredom. BUT I was singing abandon when it died!
~Bardette Sasabee
i like it how it is, course then again i can't even get all the way through the song yet ::grin::
--
Treat empaths with respect, you'll live longer
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http://blog.myspace.com/57223313
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Treat empaths with respect, you'll live longer
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http://blog.myspace.com/57223313
> Come on dart dont be such a stick in the mud! :)
Well, my response was in regards to the "instant/without waiting for pulses" clause. Not even remotely an option. Sorry. Not going to get around having 8+ second pulses on something like this.
As far as setting alcholic beverages on fire goes, that also can't be easily done due to technical reasons. It's the same problem I face in trying to make Breath of Storms work like Deryka described it -- there's nothing that I can use to tell if a tavern drink is achoholic or not. I could try to "fake" it by checking from a long list of common alchoholic drinks, but...eesh. We are getting right back into lag territory there, not to mention all the people complaining when some obscure (or worse, racially-named) drink turns up that doesn't work right.
- GM Dartenian
"You ain't seen nothin' yet!" - Al Jolson
LiveJournal: http://www.livejournal.com/users/dartenian/
Well, my response was in regards to the "instant/without waiting for pulses" clause. Not even remotely an option. Sorry. Not going to get around having 8+ second pulses on something like this.
As far as setting alcholic beverages on fire goes, that also can't be easily done due to technical reasons. It's the same problem I face in trying to make Breath of Storms work like Deryka described it -- there's nothing that I can use to tell if a tavern drink is achoholic or not. I could try to "fake" it by checking from a long list of common alchoholic drinks, but...eesh. We are getting right back into lag territory there, not to mention all the people complaining when some obscure (or worse, racially-named) drink turns up that doesn't work right.
- GM Dartenian
"You ain't seen nothin' yet!" - Al Jolson
LiveJournal: http://www.livejournal.com/users/dartenian/
Dart,
Perhaps if you implement in one of the screams the functionality to 'scream' an Enchante pulse that would last for as long and also expend the same amount of mana as two song pulses of the screamed Enchante? The scream would use mojo, so I think it would be a fair trade-off, especially since they aren't lasting for ridiculous amounts of time like 10+ minutes like the various spells in the Realm can last for. Honestly, when you can cast a single spell that lasts for 10+ minutes, I hardly see any of the drawbacks. 1) You're not continualloy using mana. 2) You're able to stack as many spells as you want, especially if you have the skill to do it easily. 3) No boot up time. 4) The effects can last for a long period of time.
In comparison, it seems like our Enchantes are heavily penalized. Since our Enchantes are still bound by global caps, I don't think they should be nearly as penalized as they currently are. A light stun and our Enchantes have the potential to stop, the boot up time which makes for easy counters and prevention, the constant expense of mana, and the current inability to stack other Enchantes really makes for a tough time compared to other spellcasters. Back when I used to use Sphere of Protection a lot, that single spell easily made up a good portion of what Desert's Maelstrom can do, even in its current broken incarnation.
Just some food for thought. Thank you for being open with us, it is greatly appreciated.
~The one who is obsessed with power.
__
http://soundsoftime.bravehost.com - The Sounds of Time
http://soundsoftime.bravehost.com/bard_planner.xls - New Personal Bard Planner
Perhaps if you implement in one of the screams the functionality to 'scream' an Enchante pulse that would last for as long and also expend the same amount of mana as two song pulses of the screamed Enchante? The scream would use mojo, so I think it would be a fair trade-off, especially since they aren't lasting for ridiculous amounts of time like 10+ minutes like the various spells in the Realm can last for. Honestly, when you can cast a single spell that lasts for 10+ minutes, I hardly see any of the drawbacks. 1) You're not continualloy using mana. 2) You're able to stack as many spells as you want, especially if you have the skill to do it easily. 3) No boot up time. 4) The effects can last for a long period of time.
In comparison, it seems like our Enchantes are heavily penalized. Since our Enchantes are still bound by global caps, I don't think they should be nearly as penalized as they currently are. A light stun and our Enchantes have the potential to stop, the boot up time which makes for easy counters and prevention, the constant expense of mana, and the current inability to stack other Enchantes really makes for a tough time compared to other spellcasters. Back when I used to use Sphere of Protection a lot, that single spell easily made up a good portion of what Desert's Maelstrom can do, even in its current broken incarnation.
Just some food for thought. Thank you for being open with us, it is greatly appreciated.
~The one who is obsessed with power.
__
http://soundsoftime.bravehost.com - The Sounds of Time
http://soundsoftime.bravehost.com/bard_planner.xls - New Personal Bard Planner
> Other Enchantes such as Caress of the Sun or Merelew's Legacy, no, I can't say that they have effects that are spectacular enough to warrent such the staggered start.
The problem is that the intro time is essentially the prep time of the spell. No Prep Time is NOT an option for enchantes or any spell. Snapcasting is an option for spells, but for years it was far too easy an option due to a bug. It's still possible, but not nearly as easy, and there is still at least one bug in place that is making certain spells far more effective under snapcasting than they are supposed to be. Those will be dealt with. Right now most enchantes are actually very low on prep time compared to most comparable spells, with the catch that they can't be reduced further. This is both a huge advantage and a huge disadvantage. We get to full prep faster on our magic than most folks do on similar spells, often less than half the time. On the other hand, we can't snapcast. I know.
Is this going to change? Maybe. I'll be completely blunt -- this is the Bard guild, not the warrior mage guild or even the moon mage guild. If you want high damage snapcastable spells, you joined the wrong guild. Again, I understand the concerns and I'm not trying to be snarky, but the last thing I want to do is make bards into cheap second-rate clones of warrior mages. They have spells, we have enchantes. We need to take our system and make it work while still being what it is -- a song-based system. How exactly do you snapcast a song? Sure, you can start a song in the middle, but this is a magical song -- those earlier notes may be essential to form the spell patterns necessary. Play the opening of the song faster? Maybe, but I still feel that for the magic to work, a song should be played as it was intended to be played, including the right tempo.
I do have some ideas on ways to ease some of the problems, but what I don't want to do is make enchantes just pulsing spells. I dislike the idea of "snapcasting" enchantes for that reason -- that's something you do to spells. I'm trying to hold off on the issue of delayed effects and "snapcasting" until we get Screams in any case, since they will potentially provide us that "instant gratification" we need, leaving enchantes to behave as enchantes.
None of this is saying "snapcasting" enchantes can't or won't happen. Just that at least in my opinion, it needs to be a last resort option if we simply cannot find some other way to make enchantes work effectively as...well...enchantes. The other side of the issue is simply that enchantes work just fine as they are in critter combat -- if the 8 seconds it takes to get Resolve off is too long, whistle at them first and you should have all the time you need, and screams are still coming to further help in this. The start-up time usually only becomes a problem in PvP, and I'm not going to make drastic overhauls to the core enchante system solely for PvP reasons. Sorry, but my first priority right now is making sure we are viable in terms of being able to effectively train, circle, and earn a living by being BARDS, not barbarian or warmie wanna-bes. If we ever get to a point where the guild seems solid enough on those grounds, then maybe we'll start exploring some PvP options (assuming Screams don't pick up most of the slack there), but that's still a long ways off.
- GM Dartenian
"You ain't seen nothin' yet!" - Al Jolson
LiveJournal: http://www.livejournal.com/users/dartenian/
The problem is that the intro time is essentially the prep time of the spell. No Prep Time is NOT an option for enchantes or any spell. Snapcasting is an option for spells, but for years it was far too easy an option due to a bug. It's still possible, but not nearly as easy, and there is still at least one bug in place that is making certain spells far more effective under snapcasting than they are supposed to be. Those will be dealt with. Right now most enchantes are actually very low on prep time compared to most comparable spells, with the catch that they can't be reduced further. This is both a huge advantage and a huge disadvantage. We get to full prep faster on our magic than most folks do on similar spells, often less than half the time. On the other hand, we can't snapcast. I know.
Is this going to change? Maybe. I'll be completely blunt -- this is the Bard guild, not the warrior mage guild or even the moon mage guild. If you want high damage snapcastable spells, you joined the wrong guild. Again, I understand the concerns and I'm not trying to be snarky, but the last thing I want to do is make bards into cheap second-rate clones of warrior mages. They have spells, we have enchantes. We need to take our system and make it work while still being what it is -- a song-based system. How exactly do you snapcast a song? Sure, you can start a song in the middle, but this is a magical song -- those earlier notes may be essential to form the spell patterns necessary. Play the opening of the song faster? Maybe, but I still feel that for the magic to work, a song should be played as it was intended to be played, including the right tempo.
I do have some ideas on ways to ease some of the problems, but what I don't want to do is make enchantes just pulsing spells. I dislike the idea of "snapcasting" enchantes for that reason -- that's something you do to spells. I'm trying to hold off on the issue of delayed effects and "snapcasting" until we get Screams in any case, since they will potentially provide us that "instant gratification" we need, leaving enchantes to behave as enchantes.
None of this is saying "snapcasting" enchantes can't or won't happen. Just that at least in my opinion, it needs to be a last resort option if we simply cannot find some other way to make enchantes work effectively as...well...enchantes. The other side of the issue is simply that enchantes work just fine as they are in critter combat -- if the 8 seconds it takes to get Resolve off is too long, whistle at them first and you should have all the time you need, and screams are still coming to further help in this. The start-up time usually only becomes a problem in PvP, and I'm not going to make drastic overhauls to the core enchante system solely for PvP reasons. Sorry, but my first priority right now is making sure we are viable in terms of being able to effectively train, circle, and earn a living by being BARDS, not barbarian or warmie wanna-bes. If we ever get to a point where the guild seems solid enough on those grounds, then maybe we'll start exploring some PvP options (assuming Screams don't pick up most of the slack there), but that's still a long ways off.
- GM Dartenian
"You ain't seen nothin' yet!" - Al Jolson
LiveJournal: http://www.livejournal.com/users/dartenian/
Ahh, now we are getting back to the old bard boards I knew, going over the same ground in different ways.
We've changed reqs at least 3 times that I've been active (and who knows what happened in the 5 years I was away) and changed a lot of the enchantes at least twice.
The problems comes down to each of us tends to see the guild in a different light. While some guilds are more narrow defined, Bards have always been much more open ended. battle/lore, magic/weapons, rp/skills... and on, and on, and on... heck I'm still pissed over the first change to reqs within a year of the guild opening ;-)
Not to take away from any side on any of these types of 'debates' but if you like half of the things about the guild then most likely you've reached your peak. I came back after the aforementioned 5 years away and was blown away with all we had. Now... well I've forgotten some of the tricks we have (or can not remember most of the time) and yeah I'd like changes but I know the guild will never be exactly what I'd like, different view of a 'bard'. So I do my thing enjoy what I like and not worry about the rest since it's out of my control.
Not saying not to push/ask for things just be willing/understanding of the answer. And of course on the other side, no matter what you do Dart you'll never match everyone's idea of what a Bard is, so you'll never stop getting pushed. So really no point to this long ramble just don't want to go back to the really negative boards we use to have with everyone bring the hate.
Feel'n old, Me 'n Whispersoft..."why I remember when there was no Bard guild and we 'bards'were just learn'n what we could and meet'n in the back room. We had ta walk 5 miles to get there too... up hill... both ways!!! And balh, blah, blah, blah..." <snore>
We've changed reqs at least 3 times that I've been active (and who knows what happened in the 5 years I was away) and changed a lot of the enchantes at least twice.
The problems comes down to each of us tends to see the guild in a different light. While some guilds are more narrow defined, Bards have always been much more open ended. battle/lore, magic/weapons, rp/skills... and on, and on, and on... heck I'm still pissed over the first change to reqs within a year of the guild opening ;-)
Not to take away from any side on any of these types of 'debates' but if you like half of the things about the guild then most likely you've reached your peak. I came back after the aforementioned 5 years away and was blown away with all we had. Now... well I've forgotten some of the tricks we have (or can not remember most of the time) and yeah I'd like changes but I know the guild will never be exactly what I'd like, different view of a 'bard'. So I do my thing enjoy what I like and not worry about the rest since it's out of my control.
Not saying not to push/ask for things just be willing/understanding of the answer. And of course on the other side, no matter what you do Dart you'll never match everyone's idea of what a Bard is, so you'll never stop getting pushed. So really no point to this long ramble just don't want to go back to the really negative boards we use to have with everyone bring the hate.
Feel'n old, Me 'n Whispersoft..."why I remember when there was no Bard guild and we 'bards'were just learn'n what we could and meet'n in the back room. We had ta walk 5 miles to get there too... up hill... both ways!!! And balh, blah, blah, blah..." <snore>
>>Sorry, but my first priority right now is making sure we are viable in terms of being able to effectively train, circle, and earn a living by being BARDS, not barbarian or warmie wanna-bes.
But... we are already very capable on all of these grounds. We are able to control creatures like no body's business, and we are able to circle exceptionally well--or at least I am given the route I've decided to take. I couldn't ask for more in terms of training, and circling. Making a living--that is one area that I would like to see enhanced for the Bard guild, but that seems like that will be taken care of in the Lore split correct?
I guess I'm just trying to figure out what all else you're doing with such a solid guild. Seriously, to me it seems like the only thing we're lacking is PvP, and you can't say that that isn't apart of the game, because it very much is. From GMPCs to even day to day struggles with other characters, it's really hard if any joe blow from the joe blow guild can mop the floor with us if our tools aren't effective against them. Again, our Enchantes are very effective against primitive beasts, but when compared against any thinking organism, they are severely lacking.
And thank you for all of your words, it is always a pleasure to hear things first hand from the creator and how you see things. It's good for comparison.
~The one who is obsessed with power.
__
http://soundsoftime.bravehost.com - The Sounds of Time
http://soundsoftime.bravehost.com/bard_planner.xls - New Personal Bard Planner
But... we are already very capable on all of these grounds. We are able to control creatures like no body's business, and we are able to circle exceptionally well--or at least I am given the route I've decided to take. I couldn't ask for more in terms of training, and circling. Making a living--that is one area that I would like to see enhanced for the Bard guild, but that seems like that will be taken care of in the Lore split correct?
I guess I'm just trying to figure out what all else you're doing with such a solid guild. Seriously, to me it seems like the only thing we're lacking is PvP, and you can't say that that isn't apart of the game, because it very much is. From GMPCs to even day to day struggles with other characters, it's really hard if any joe blow from the joe blow guild can mop the floor with us if our tools aren't effective against them. Again, our Enchantes are very effective against primitive beasts, but when compared against any thinking organism, they are severely lacking.
And thank you for all of your words, it is always a pleasure to hear things first hand from the creator and how you see things. It's good for comparison.
~The one who is obsessed with power.
__
http://soundsoftime.bravehost.com - The Sounds of Time
http://soundsoftime.bravehost.com/bard_planner.xls - New Personal Bard Planner
>> So really no point to this long ramble just don't want to go back to the really negative boards we use to have with everyone bring the hate.
By all means I hope no 'hate' is felt in any of this. I think we all have a lot of compassion and hope for the already wonderful Bard guild, and can reflect on a little constructive criticism of the guild and the areas it can improve in.
~The one who is obsessed with power.
__
http://soundsoftime.bravehost.com - The Sounds of Time
http://soundsoftime.bravehost.com/bard_planner.xls - New Personal Bard Planner
By all means I hope no 'hate' is felt in any of this. I think we all have a lot of compassion and hope for the already wonderful Bard guild, and can reflect on a little constructive criticism of the guild and the areas it can improve in.
~The one who is obsessed with power.
__
http://soundsoftime.bravehost.com - The Sounds of Time
http://soundsoftime.bravehost.com/bard_planner.xls - New Personal Bard Planner
Personally, I do not want to see snapcast enchantes. I like the way they are now with the messaging, and I think they add a lot of flavor to a guild that deserves it. I understand the reasons why people say they are useless in PVP, however, I think snapcasting enchantes is not the way to fix it. As Dart said, our magic stems from our music - it comes from the melodies and lyrics that we weave. To snapcast a song seems silly to me. Screams will be instantcast, I'm sure we can come up with other solutions for the dilemma without making us another run-of-the-mill casting guild.
Idea for making enchantes more useful in pvp:
Bluff lure:
An ability that uses mojo and places a luring affect on your enchantes. Anyone who listens to any part of a verse of an enchante has to make a save of some sort or be unable to leave the room for a specified amount of time or until the enchante ends, which ever comes first.
-Tabby
Idea for making enchantes more useful in pvp:
Bluff lure:
An ability that uses mojo and places a luring affect on your enchantes. Anyone who listens to any part of a verse of an enchante has to make a save of some sort or be unable to leave the room for a specified amount of time or until the enchante ends, which ever comes first.
-Tabby
<< parry was simply by FAR the best choice for that slot, as it would (a) minimalize backtraining, and (b) guarantee bards have at least some minimal defense skills. >>
IF a bard is doing any weapon training, there are going to get some sort of defense exp. No one hunts with their stances set at zero. My thought was let the bard train his way. They can train evasion, parry or shield. Train them all, train one, train a combo.
<< We make parry optional, we'll have to put in a new weapon req to replace it. >>
Why do you have to? Is there some inflexible law? Its not like if we drop a parry or weapon req Bards suddenly unbalance the realms and take over. Or will we, hmmmm?
<< non-drinkable grain alcohol on fire >>
I meant only the non-drinkable grain alcohol reagent the alchemist sells. Lots cheaper than naptha and easy to steal.
<<Sorry, but my first priority right now is making sure we are viable in terms of being able to effectively train, circle, and earn a living by being BARDS, not barbarian or warmie wanna-bes. If we ever get to a point where the guild seems solid enough on those grounds, then maybe we'll start exploring some PvP options (assuming Screams don't pick up most of the slack there), but that's still a long ways off.>>
Neither do I. I have tourneyed once since I joined in '98. Not my cup of joe. I just want a viable options in place to make us a less easy mark.
<< By all means I hope no 'hate' is felt in any of this. I think we all have a lot of compassion and hope for the already wonderful Bard guild, and can reflect on a little constructive criticism of the guild and the areas it can improve in.>>
Exactly, I couldn't have said it better. The bard guild is 200% better than it ever was. It was just my view of what I felt was still needed.
I did hate that dumb premium orb that showed me no bard scenes though....
Robo
A dust bunny furtively tugs a label from Niteshiver's clothing that reads, "Closet Conservative".
IF a bard is doing any weapon training, there are going to get some sort of defense exp. No one hunts with their stances set at zero. My thought was let the bard train his way. They can train evasion, parry or shield. Train them all, train one, train a combo.
<< We make parry optional, we'll have to put in a new weapon req to replace it. >>
Why do you have to? Is there some inflexible law? Its not like if we drop a parry or weapon req Bards suddenly unbalance the realms and take over. Or will we, hmmmm?
<< non-drinkable grain alcohol on fire >>
I meant only the non-drinkable grain alcohol reagent the alchemist sells. Lots cheaper than naptha and easy to steal.
<<Sorry, but my first priority right now is making sure we are viable in terms of being able to effectively train, circle, and earn a living by being BARDS, not barbarian or warmie wanna-bes. If we ever get to a point where the guild seems solid enough on those grounds, then maybe we'll start exploring some PvP options (assuming Screams don't pick up most of the slack there), but that's still a long ways off.>>
Neither do I. I have tourneyed once since I joined in '98. Not my cup of joe. I just want a viable options in place to make us a less easy mark.
<< By all means I hope no 'hate' is felt in any of this. I think we all have a lot of compassion and hope for the already wonderful Bard guild, and can reflect on a little constructive criticism of the guild and the areas it can improve in.>>
Exactly, I couldn't have said it better. The bard guild is 200% better than it ever was. It was just my view of what I felt was still needed.
I did hate that dumb premium orb that showed me no bard scenes though....
Robo
A dust bunny furtively tugs a label from Niteshiver's clothing that reads, "Closet Conservative".
>> As far as setting alcholic beverages on fire goes, that also can't be easily done due to technical reasons. It's the same problem I face in trying to make Breath of Storms work like Deryka described it -- there's nothing that I can use to tell if a tavern drink is achoholic or not.
Remember way back when, when Karovaas and the bards were chasing down Yalleck and his army? We finally beat him back and cornered him in the lost village, and Karovaas confronted him face to face. The final scene went something like this:
- Yalleck says, "You can't kill me"
- Karovaas starts singing an enchante nobody had ever heard before (pyre)
- Something in Yalleck's backpack explodes, killing him. (he had naphtha in there)
Now THAT'S the way it should work. :--) None of that silly splashing of naphtha, which burns off in one pulse. We're talking bombs. We're even talking suicide bombs, if you want to be silly. We're talking, "here, hold this bag!" .... BOOM.
(this is how Ydrask introduced Pyre, by the way, which was cool)
I'd love to see it work like that.
- Useff
With a flambuoyant slash, a red bear orc raider manages to shred your ear into narrow strips of useless leather. He flings them to the ground with a muttered curse.
Remember way back when, when Karovaas and the bards were chasing down Yalleck and his army? We finally beat him back and cornered him in the lost village, and Karovaas confronted him face to face. The final scene went something like this:
- Yalleck says, "You can't kill me"
- Karovaas starts singing an enchante nobody had ever heard before (pyre)
- Something in Yalleck's backpack explodes, killing him. (he had naphtha in there)
Now THAT'S the way it should work. :--) None of that silly splashing of naphtha, which burns off in one pulse. We're talking bombs. We're even talking suicide bombs, if you want to be silly. We're talking, "here, hold this bag!" .... BOOM.
(this is how Ydrask introduced Pyre, by the way, which was cool)
I'd love to see it work like that.
- Useff
With a flambuoyant slash, a red bear orc raider manages to shred your ear into narrow strips of useless leather. He flings them to the ground with a muttered curse.
> Why do you have to? Is there some inflexible law?
Basically, yes. Not exactly inflexable, but rigid enough that we can't make the parry req optional and not require either another weapon skill in its place or more ranks in the current weapon skills. The key here is that we need to stay within the weapon skillset.
Substituting defenses across skillsets is NOT an option. Yes, we can put in an Evasion and Shield rank too, but they cannot and will not remove the need to meet the weapon skillset requirements we were given to work under.
- GM Dartenian
"You ain't seen nothin' yet!" - Al Jolson
LiveJournal: http://www.livejournal.com/users/dartenian/
Basically, yes. Not exactly inflexable, but rigid enough that we can't make the parry req optional and not require either another weapon skill in its place or more ranks in the current weapon skills. The key here is that we need to stay within the weapon skillset.
Substituting defenses across skillsets is NOT an option. Yes, we can put in an Evasion and Shield rank too, but they cannot and will not remove the need to meet the weapon skillset requirements we were given to work under.
- GM Dartenian
"You ain't seen nothin' yet!" - Al Jolson
LiveJournal: http://www.livejournal.com/users/dartenian/
> I'd love to see it work like that.
So would I, but it's not going to happen. That potentially involves digging through hundreds if not thousands of items every time the spell pulses.
- GM Dartenian
"You ain't seen nothin' yet!" - Al Jolson
LiveJournal: http://www.livejournal.com/users/dartenian/
So would I, but it's not going to happen. That potentially involves digging through hundreds if not thousands of items every time the spell pulses.
- GM Dartenian
"You ain't seen nothin' yet!" - Al Jolson
LiveJournal: http://www.livejournal.com/users/dartenian/
""> 5. Abandoned Heart needs more power.
Hearts is not intended to be a quick kill spell, nor is it going to be. The fatigue hit is the primary feature.""
I'd like to see Abandoned Hearts resist abilities that boost fatigue and health (berserks and that warmie spell that causes warm breezes) Also It would be nice if you could drop someone below 50% fatgue dropping it to 30 or even 40% would be great
Thanks,
Kleis
Hearts is not intended to be a quick kill spell, nor is it going to be. The fatigue hit is the primary feature.""
I'd like to see Abandoned Hearts resist abilities that boost fatigue and health (berserks and that warmie spell that causes warm breezes) Also It would be nice if you could drop someone below 50% fatgue dropping it to 30 or even 40% would be great
Thanks,
Kleis
""> I'd love to see it work like that.
So would I, but it's not going to happen. That potentially involves digging through hundreds if not thousands of items every time the spell pulses.""
Could you make so that it could set off any naptha that is in the open(on the ground and or in someones hand)
Thanks,
Kleis
So would I, but it's not going to happen. That potentially involves digging through hundreds if not thousands of items every time the spell pulses.""
Could you make so that it could set off any naptha that is in the open(on the ground and or in someones hand)
Thanks,
Kleis
I was just teasin about the stick in the mud!
I can just imagine us starting everyones drink on fire, Then they really would hate bards!
You are doing great things for DR. Everything you fiddle with just gets better and better! Thanks for putting up with we silly bards and polishing up all of our enchantes and other fun stuff!
~Bardette Sasabee
I can just imagine us starting everyones drink on fire, Then they really would hate bards!
You are doing great things for DR. Everything you fiddle with just gets better and better! Thanks for putting up with we silly bards and polishing up all of our enchantes and other fun stuff!
~Bardette Sasabee
Me, I think that when screams are finally out they are going to solve a lot of our problems, at least in the areas of combat and snap fighting. It's just that having them pending on another review, when they were initially intended to get done so much earlier is somewhat frustrating, and I imagine might be a big factor in why there's still a feeling that we underperform (And I'm speaking in terms of the game only of course ;P ). I think once we get screams, frustration levels will go way down. I'd like to see dirty moves as part of our combat reservoir, but that's just my wishful thinking. Oh yes, and whatever happend to instruments that are also weapons? where's my dart shooting harmonica?
We have our excellent team bard and I'm positive things will keep improving for us.
Siltoth
Stealer of Silvy's Hugs
Burhup says, "I still havn't thought of a good present for a theif"
You say to Burhup, "a Get out of jail free scroll"
We have our excellent team bard and I'm positive things will keep improving for us.
Siltoth
Stealer of Silvy's Hugs
Burhup says, "I still havn't thought of a good present for a theif"
You say to Burhup, "a Get out of jail free scroll"
Take away the RT and the loss of voice after a scream defiance, and let us scream defiance(insert local bullies name here).
I agree with BEVERAGEK, the only thing we are lacking is a PVP ability. Enchantes are fantastic in normal combat, as are our other abilities, piercing whistle and bluff dead. Take a character from another guild hunting with you and they are amazed at how good bards are in combat, and how good we are at saving them from death. We have an enchante for all normal combat situations, just not PVP.
Our out of combat enchantes are great as well. Drums, Lilt, Grace, Nagas and Nexus are all excellent.
I really don`t know any bards who PVP, but like Robo said "I just want a viable options in place to make us a less easy mark."
I don`t really have much experience with PVP, 5 times in 5 years isn`t really a lot, but it`s enough to know that i am hopeless at trying to defend myself against the local bully or thief. I end up dead if they are within 25 circles of me, unless they are a Trader(even the 25 circle less empath slept me).
I am often asked by old and new players alike "what`s it like being a Bard, i`m thinking of rolling one up". I always tell anyone who is thinking of rolling up a bard to go for it, and that they will love it. The bard team have done a great job with abilities/enchantes. Its more fun being a bard now than it ever has been in my opinion.
Rezzian
I agree with BEVERAGEK, the only thing we are lacking is a PVP ability. Enchantes are fantastic in normal combat, as are our other abilities, piercing whistle and bluff dead. Take a character from another guild hunting with you and they are amazed at how good bards are in combat, and how good we are at saving them from death. We have an enchante for all normal combat situations, just not PVP.
Our out of combat enchantes are great as well. Drums, Lilt, Grace, Nagas and Nexus are all excellent.
I really don`t know any bards who PVP, but like Robo said "I just want a viable options in place to make us a less easy mark."
I don`t really have much experience with PVP, 5 times in 5 years isn`t really a lot, but it`s enough to know that i am hopeless at trying to defend myself against the local bully or thief. I end up dead if they are within 25 circles of me, unless they are a Trader(even the 25 circle less empath slept me).
I am often asked by old and new players alike "what`s it like being a Bard, i`m thinking of rolling one up". I always tell anyone who is thinking of rolling up a bard to go for it, and that they will love it. The bard team have done a great job with abilities/enchantes. Its more fun being a bard now than it ever has been in my opinion.
Rezzian
Hmmm, maybe we arn`t allowed to have no RT on something like that, so what about....
>scream defiance(enter local bullies name here)
RT before you scream
You take a few deep breaths readying yourself(RT, whatever RT is for branch break, smite foe, halt, haraweps bonds full prep) Using those spells as examples because they are magic tert, and we are magic secondary.
You (insert messaging here) scream at (local bully) and his/her head explodes!
Maybe make other bards or whoever has enough skill see you prepare to scream, much like how it works for other guilds. Have the option to try to hide your preparation to scream.
How does that hiding spell preps work? I have never once seen whoever was preparing to MB, or HB me prep the spell, is it a skill thing to see them prep, or is it just always going to be BAMM, i`m TOAST.
Rezzian
>scream defiance(enter local bullies name here)
RT before you scream
You take a few deep breaths readying yourself(RT, whatever RT is for branch break, smite foe, halt, haraweps bonds full prep) Using those spells as examples because they are magic tert, and we are magic secondary.
You (insert messaging here) scream at (local bully) and his/her head explodes!
Maybe make other bards or whoever has enough skill see you prepare to scream, much like how it works for other guilds. Have the option to try to hide your preparation to scream.
How does that hiding spell preps work? I have never once seen whoever was preparing to MB, or HB me prep the spell, is it a skill thing to see them prep, or is it just always going to be BAMM, i`m TOAST.
Rezzian
other magic guilds have these options:
You are currently set to recognize known spells when prepared by someone else in the area. (Use SPELL RECOGNIZE OFF to change this.)
You are currently set to display full cast messaging. (Use SPELL BRIEFMSG ON to change this.)
You are NOT currently attempting to hide your spell preparing. (Use PREPARE /HIDE to change this.)
Im not sure how this works I just know that they have that option.
AS a bard we get only this as far as I could tell(I even learned a spell for you to test it) :
spell
As a bard, you can use SONG to list the enchantes you know.
You have learned Steelstar from a scroll and must maintain at least more than half but under two-thirds your normal attunement to keep it.
>>How does that hiding spell preps work? I have never once seen whoever was preparing to MB, or HB me prep the spell, is it a skill thing to see them prep, or is it just always going to be BAMM, i`m TOAST.
~Bardette Sasabee
You are currently set to recognize known spells when prepared by someone else in the area. (Use SPELL RECOGNIZE OFF to change this.)
You are currently set to display full cast messaging. (Use SPELL BRIEFMSG ON to change this.)
You are NOT currently attempting to hide your spell preparing. (Use PREPARE /HIDE to change this.)
Im not sure how this works I just know that they have that option.
AS a bard we get only this as far as I could tell(I even learned a spell for you to test it) :
spell
As a bard, you can use SONG to list the enchantes you know.
You have learned Steelstar from a scroll and must maintain at least more than half but under two-thirds your normal attunement to keep it.
>>How does that hiding spell preps work? I have never once seen whoever was preparing to MB, or HB me prep the spell, is it a skill thing to see them prep, or is it just always going to be BAMM, i`m TOAST.
~Bardette Sasabee
>How does that hiding spell preps work? I have never once seen whoever was preparing to MB, or HB me prep the spell, is it a skill thing to see them prep, or is it just always going to be BAMM, i`m TOAST.
It's a skill check. I think its PM vs Perception or PM vs PM + Perception. I know that my lower circle characters can often see my higher skilled characters prep, so the contests seems to be weighted to the observer.
It's a skill check. I think its PM vs Perception or PM vs PM + Perception. I know that my lower circle characters can often see my higher skilled characters prep, so the contests seems to be weighted to the observer.
>>I really don`t know any bards who PVP, but like Robo said "I just want a viable options in place to make us a less easy mark."
Abso-freaking-lutely. I don't seek out PVP, but it often finds me, and NOT in the form of spars, but outright attacks. Why shouldn't I have a viable bardic way to defend myself other than with my wit?
I'm not a cupcake with no battle training. I've got pretty damn high defenses. I shouldn't have to stock up on spell scrolls of other guilds' spells to be on equal footing. That's incredibly lame.
As for the mythic screams, well I guess we'll have to wait and wait and wait and see.
~Tashya~
Abso-freaking-lutely. I don't seek out PVP, but it often finds me, and NOT in the form of spars, but outright attacks. Why shouldn't I have a viable bardic way to defend myself other than with my wit?
I'm not a cupcake with no battle training. I've got pretty damn high defenses. I shouldn't have to stock up on spell scrolls of other guilds' spells to be on equal footing. That's incredibly lame.
As for the mythic screams, well I guess we'll have to wait and wait and wait and see.
~Tashya~
>>Do it like the rangers do and learn to shoot people in the face?
How is that bardic exactly? Anyone can shoot a person in the face. Nothing special, not to mention, that's what I do right now anyways. I still laugh at the time that a thief started making really rude comments to me and I one-shot killed him. I'm not going to bother with a challenge when people cross the line. As he died he said "But you're a bard....you're not supposed to be able to hit me!" <snickers>
~Tashya~
How is that bardic exactly? Anyone can shoot a person in the face. Nothing special, not to mention, that's what I do right now anyways. I still laugh at the time that a thief started making really rude comments to me and I one-shot killed him. I'm not going to bother with a challenge when people cross the line. As he died he said "But you're a bard....you're not supposed to be able to hit me!" <snickers>
~Tashya~
>>How is that bardic exactly? Anyone can shoot a person in the face. Nothing special, not to mention, that's what I do right now anyways.<<
It works, and it doesn't require rewriting the entire enchante system to make Bards uber in PvP.
Which is a good thing. Because it doesn't seem like Dart's A number 1 priority from what I can tell.
Mazrian
PS> You need to juggle more.
It works, and it doesn't require rewriting the entire enchante system to make Bards uber in PvP.
Which is a good thing. Because it doesn't seem like Dart's A number 1 priority from what I can tell.
Mazrian
PS> You need to juggle more.
<It works, and it doesn't require rewriting the entire enchante system to make Bards uber in PvP.>
<Which is a good thing. Because it doesn't seem like Dart's A number 1 priority from what I can tell.>
It was, till you all took him from us.....(weeps)
Robo
A dust bunny furtively tugs a label from Niteshiver's clothing that reads, "Closet Conservative".
<Which is a good thing. Because it doesn't seem like Dart's A number 1 priority from what I can tell.>
It was, till you all took him from us.....(weeps)
Robo
A dust bunny furtively tugs a label from Niteshiver's clothing that reads, "Closet Conservative".
