It seems that as a lore primary, with one career AND one hobby, we should at least be able to buff two skills. Maybe change the way the spell works so that lore primes get 2 skill buffs. Secondaries get 1 skill buff and a half skill buff. Terts get 1 skill buff (same as today). I'd be more than willing to give up another spell slot for this.

It used to buff two skills, and it cost one spell slot more. The issue is that top 2 craft skills is all that anyone except the most devoted crafter will want. Basically, WOTM became the best a craft buffer could be; there wasn't any room for other buffs that weren't "like WOTM, but not as good". So it was cut to one skill, and the slot cost was reduced by one.

I also wish the skill in mind could be selected, akin to how SAP can selectively buff Warding, Utility, Augmentation or Debilitation. Even if it required a metaspell to allow a CAST [forging/engineering/alchemy/outfitting/enchanting] option.

FWIW, my Necro sits around knitting and mixing remedies. If I could alternatively buff a craft, that'd be pretty useful. But even so, hanging around a crafting hall and knitting or grinding after you forge something or carve something is a pretty reasonable course of action.

In any case, all a craft buff is help speed along training a bit. It'd be nice if there was some more flexibility with what you could apply it to, again, like SaP.

I love how this thread has progressed.

1. Why was the 2 skill buff nerfed to only 1 buff?
2. Because 2 was too powerful.
3. Oh. Okay. Why not make it so we can choose at will which one to buff?
4. Because that would be the same as having 5 buffs which would be even more too powerful.
5. Okay, then. How about a bunch of abilities that let us cast all 5 buffs?
6. ...

<<What about adding on 5 separate meta-spells. Rare scroll drops. Maybe signature and/or only self-cast. Perhaps make it so they can't be permanently learned. Muse is for everyone, bards get to draw on ancient knowledge for more specific help at the significant cost of a scroll slot.

This is pretty much how sorcery works currently, and is already available to you as an option to use. You can natively buff your highest skill. Learn Artificer's Eye temporarily from a scroll and you can buff Enchanting. Learn Steady Hands (once Trader Magic gets released) and get a Forging buff or Outfitting buff. Empaths will/should probably get an Alchemy buffing spell, which you would then be able to learn temporarily and cast. And so on...

As for making them Bard only, why the heck would Bards have a monopoly on, or if not a monopoly then an across the board focus on crafting buffs? It makes very little sense. Sure, they're Lore Primary, but there's a Lore Primary that is a heck of a lot more craft-centric than a Bard could ever hope to be.

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Because buffing your magic skills doesn't have as permanent an impact as buffing your crafting skills does, I would guess.

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> I love how this thread has progressed.

Which is a shame, because you and I seem to have read two separate threads. I mean this literally. The red posts have disappeared at least from my view. Here's something a little more accurate:

1. [me] Why was the 2 skill buff nerfed to only 1 buff? [We can choose 1.5 (2.5- corrected) specializations but only buff 1 of those)
2. Nobody cared about more than 2, so there was no room for improvement.
3. [Person 2] I care.
3. [me] Okay, how about we nerf the short-term flexibility in exchange for long-term control?
4. Because that would be five spells in one.
5. [me] Okay, then. How about a thematic tie-in with a significant cost that let us specialize in buffs. I don't like that learning a skill means I lose out in another skill I care more about.
6. [I'll delete my posts]
7. [random person to me] No. You're wrong, and you should feel bad. [zoidberg meme]

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> This is pretty much how sorcery works currently, and is already available to you as an option to use.

Except that sorcery requires a secondary skillset, a skill all it's own with dangerous consequences, spells that aren't released, systems that aren't released, and/or corruption to be able to control buffs on my primary skillset.

> You can natively buff your highest skill.

Everyone can. It's called ranks. Magic primes get abilities that make doing magical things easier. Survival primes get abilities that makes survival easier. Lore primes... generally don't.

> As for making them Bard only

Balance and themes.

> why the heck would Bards have a monopoly on,

Nothing. It looks like traders will be able to buff all crafting skills, of their choosing, at the same time. That will naturally fall to moon mages if they're not signature (which I'd guess some would).

> It makes very little sense.

No. What makes little sense is giving a lore and weapons secondary guild the ability to completely match or outshine all lore primary crafters in weapons crafting after 25-75 ranks. That was accepted for game design, which I tend to agree with, but it does make this entire conversation feel a little funny.

> Sure, they're Lore Primary, but there's a Lore Primary that is a heck of a lot more craft-centric than a Bard could ever hope to be.

And the traders would get their "buff everything at the same time" capability that still outstrips the bard spell, due to the restrictions I proposed. But, again, I'd point to recent game improvements as a suggestion that one guild having an ability shouldn't affect other guilds seeking to improve their own repertoire and control of their primary skillset.

Traders have planned crafting buffs for 3 of the crafts, not all of them. And I'm not sure how the one that buffs two will work. Even they don't get buffs to every single craft. And just because a skill is in your primary skillset doesn't mean you should automatcially get an ability to buff it. Every single guild has primary skills they cannot natively buff. (Not counting Moon Mages with prediction, which has it's own restrictions in terms of time invested relative to potency.)

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>creating permanent moonblades

Permanent moonblade is an enchanting/crafting thing.

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>Forgive my snark, but welcome to the life of a warrior mage.

Reply Reply Delete Delete
> Traders have planned crafting buffs for 3 of the crafts, not all of them.

So they get forging, outfitting, and enchanting. On top of this they get a buff to crafting tools quality and durability, which affects every profession.

> And just because a skill is in your primary skillset doesn't mean you should automatcially get an ability to buff it.

No, but it's a pretty good place to start the discussion.

> Every single guild has primary skills they cannot natively buff.

What can bards buff in their primary skillset? Performance, Bardic Lore, Scholarship, and one highest crafting skill. One of those has moderate use. One of those is entirely irrelevant to the game environment. One of those may have a use in the future. And one means you can't learn too much of another crafting system without killing your bonus.

> Nope. Sustainable. But nice try at an ad hominem.

Yeah, that's not what ad hominem means. I can bring up your argument that relative to our discussion without you taking this as a personal attack.

You said, "How about a metaspell that let you shape a pre-existing moonblade to Grazhir, turning it into a pearlescent moonblade. Pearlescent moonblades are semi-permanent, being able to be sustained past the moon setting, but requiring mana in order to be sustained."

Whether you call it semi-permanent or permanent, what you have is a blade that stays with you for as long as you want. In fact, it's probably better than a permanent blade because you don't have to worry about damage; however, the key point is that I'm not in your forums stamping all over your idea because I don't think moon mages should be top-end weapon smiths... I certainly wouldn't tell you that there's already a guild who shares your primary subset that does that.


Of all of this, what I don't understand is why you're objecting so vehemently to a suggestion that's going to be mostly ignored anyway.

1. I ask questions.
2. I'm given answers.
3. I offer suggestions.
4. Red-named answers are deleted (still not sure why or how).
5. You show up to complain about a suggestion in the bard's folder (again, not sure why).

<<5. You show up to complain about a suggestion in the bard's folder (again, not sure why).

Because your suggestion got more powerful each time despite people indicating that the initial one was already too powerful.

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You don't want to go down the path of modeling Whisper after Moon Mage magic.

You'll end up with a spell that boosts one random crafting skill, locked on a per character basis, revealed only after reaching 50th circle. And 10% of the time after casting it the Muse will eat you.

-Raesh

"Ever notice that B.A.'s flavor text swells in direct proportion to how much one of our characters is getting screwed?" - Brian Van Hoose

<<Is that easier for you to accept?

Sure. I'm all for turning WOTM into a cyclic spell with the same effect it has currently.

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I would be willing to have a weaker WOTM to gain flexibility between the five crafting skills or a possible way to reduce the RT of crafting skills across the board with a loss of an actual buff to the base ranks.

>>or a possible way to reduce the RT of crafting skills across the board with a loss of an actual buff to the base ranks.

Yeah, I agree with NINEVAH1 on this. Using masterful-quality built-for-speed tools and having all the relevant techniques, I find that most crafts are rather quick and you can make items with a minor amount of time invested. I, personally, don't see any reason to make it any faster than it already is.

I will say that some parts of crafting do take longer, such as using the society bought consumables like pins or oil, but there are also festival versions of these which are much faster than the ones bought at the society. Also, I expect once those items are craftable, we'll see the speed versions of those as being far more common than they are at the moment.

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>whisper card geva
Geva is unlikely to appreciate your gift.