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As Weapon Secondary, Survival and Armor Tertiary, I'm trying to get a sense of the general approaches that Bards take for their armor choices and defense strategy.
Returning to the game after a while and trying to get a sense of what's changed.
Some questions:
- Type of Armor. Leather mostly? Light Chain? Particularly interested in the Stealthy Bards and their selection of armor type. Bone Armor was crap, is it still crap?
- Shields. Worth it to wear one, or does the encumbrance impact more than the advantage?
> Type of Armor. Leather mostly? Light Chain? Particularly interested in the Stealthy Bards and their selection of armor type. Bone Armor was crap, is it still crap?
I consider myself a stealthy bard, inasmuch as I train stealth at level. I wear leathers with mixed accessories (chain neck, brig hands, plate eyes, cloth head) for normal hunting, and then swap out the metal for leather when I want to train stealth. I've been trying to convince my friend to let me use up our supply of arzumodine to replace the leather. So I favor light armor, preferably cloth, but I wear small amounts of the metal armors to keep the skills moving.
I imagine bone armor has gotten better with Kodius's rebalancing and the ability to craft it, but I haven't really explored that.
> - Shields. Worth it to wear one
Oh my foof yes. I suppose you could get away with just parry and evasion if you were sure you would never encounter any sort of ranged attack ever, because those would wreck you. Keep in mind that most quests and invasions feature something that can attack at range.
In terms of wearing vs holding, you'll get the same hindrance but slightly better defense if you hold it in your hand, but I find it's not worth the hassle. I just strapped one on my arm and never looked back. If you go with that option, you'll probably want a nice leather one, since leather is slightly better for small shields.
I consider myself a stealthy bard, inasmuch as I train stealth at level. I wear leathers with mixed accessories (chain neck, brig hands, plate eyes, cloth head) for normal hunting, and then swap out the metal for leather when I want to train stealth. I've been trying to convince my friend to let me use up our supply of arzumodine to replace the leather. So I favor light armor, preferably cloth, but I wear small amounts of the metal armors to keep the skills moving.
I imagine bone armor has gotten better with Kodius's rebalancing and the ability to craft it, but I haven't really explored that.
> - Shields. Worth it to wear one
Oh my foof yes. I suppose you could get away with just parry and evasion if you were sure you would never encounter any sort of ranged attack ever, because those would wreck you. Keep in mind that most quests and invasions feature something that can attack at range.
In terms of wearing vs holding, you'll get the same hindrance but slightly better defense if you hold it in your hand, but I find it's not worth the hassle. I just strapped one on my arm and never looked back. If you go with that option, you'll probably want a nice leather one, since leather is slightly better for small shields.
>>- Type of Armor. Leather mostly? Light Chain? Particularly interested in the Stealthy Bards and their selection of armor type. Bone Armor was crap, is it still crap?
I do a setup similar to Illiena and just remove the metal pieces to train stealth. You can swap other armor in, but when you are smaller that weight can add up and hurt you more than just going with less armor while you move in and out of hiding.
Bone armor is comparable to leather armor now, but it trades absorption for more protection. The problem I find with bone armor is that for you to be able to use the protection aspect of your armor (not the absorption part) you have to pass, and win, a skill check against the attacker. Being armor tert means you will typically have lower armor ranks and you will not be able to take advantage of the extra protection from the bone armor. Leather or some heavier cloth will probably be a better choice. All 3 light armors (cloth/leather/bone) have the same stealth hinderance so don't base your decision off what is better for stealth since they are all equal.
>>- Shields. Worth it to wear one, or does the encumbrance impact more than the advantage?
Shields are pretty much necessary now. Combat is based on the idea that you are always using 2 defenses out of the 3. Parry has severe limitation in what it can defend against and evasion takes the most penalties of the 3. Without a shield your defenses will be gimped and you will be very limited where you can hunt safely. I'd do as Illiena suggested and strap a leather small shield to your arm and roll on.
I do a setup similar to Illiena and just remove the metal pieces to train stealth. You can swap other armor in, but when you are smaller that weight can add up and hurt you more than just going with less armor while you move in and out of hiding.
Bone armor is comparable to leather armor now, but it trades absorption for more protection. The problem I find with bone armor is that for you to be able to use the protection aspect of your armor (not the absorption part) you have to pass, and win, a skill check against the attacker. Being armor tert means you will typically have lower armor ranks and you will not be able to take advantage of the extra protection from the bone armor. Leather or some heavier cloth will probably be a better choice. All 3 light armors (cloth/leather/bone) have the same stealth hinderance so don't base your decision off what is better for stealth since they are all equal.
>>- Shields. Worth it to wear one, or does the encumbrance impact more than the advantage?
Shields are pretty much necessary now. Combat is based on the idea that you are always using 2 defenses out of the 3. Parry has severe limitation in what it can defend against and evasion takes the most penalties of the 3. Without a shield your defenses will be gimped and you will be very limited where you can hunt safely. I'd do as Illiena suggested and strap a leather small shield to your arm and roll on.
I wear:
- Light Armor (head)
- Chain Armor (torso)
- Plate Armor (arms/hands)
- Brigandine (legs)
- Light Shield (worn)
- Parry Stick (worn)
I also train stealth (level with my combats), but I do it by shoplifting. If I need to be stealthy while wearing armor, I can swap out all of the metal stuff for a bodysuit of light armor, but for PvE this is never a necessity.
I
Kneebiter Zhunee just arrived.
R>
Zhunee glances around the room and says, "Someone pull my finger."
R>
Kneebiter Zhunee runs west.
- Light Armor (head)
- Chain Armor (torso)
- Plate Armor (arms/hands)
- Brigandine (legs)
- Light Shield (worn)
- Parry Stick (worn)
I also train stealth (level with my combats), but I do it by shoplifting. If I need to be stealthy while wearing armor, I can swap out all of the metal stuff for a bodysuit of light armor, but for PvE this is never a necessity.
I
Kneebiter Zhunee just arrived.
R>
Zhunee glances around the room and says, "Someone pull my finger."
R>
Kneebiter Zhunee runs west.
I too train stealth at level (in combat). I also wear a mixed setup during non-stealth and switch to cloth for stealth, with the main difference from others being that I remove my body armor for extra low stealth hindrance. This hasn't been a problem for damage so far, although I might switch back to wearing it now that I have an easier time with stealth.
I used Misdirection for a long time but have recently been trying Rising Mists on a scroll -- I find this a huge help. It lasts much longer and the bonus just seems better (not tested though).
>>All 3 light armors (cloth/leather/bone) have the same stealth hinderance so don't base your decision off what is better for stealth since they are all equal.
I'm highlighting this for emphasis, since many people assume cloth is the best for stealth. I choose cloth because it tends to be lower in maneuvering hindrance, which is especially helpful for mixed armor setups because they take a hindrance penalty.
- Navesi
I used Misdirection for a long time but have recently been trying Rising Mists on a scroll -- I find this a huge help. It lasts much longer and the bonus just seems better (not tested though).
>>All 3 light armors (cloth/leather/bone) have the same stealth hinderance so don't base your decision off what is better for stealth since they are all equal.
I'm highlighting this for emphasis, since many people assume cloth is the best for stealth. I choose cloth because it tends to be lower in maneuvering hindrance, which is especially helpful for mixed armor setups because they take a hindrance penalty.
- Navesi
>>Curious, they must not be doing the same thing. Different perception debuffs.
Rising Mists is an AoE stealth buff that works on different mechanics than other stealth buffs because it does not actually buff the Stealth skill, and seems a bit more potent than other stealth buffs. Maybe because it buffs the room instead of a single person, or it may scale in potency quicker than a direct skill buff. It is also stackable with other stealth buffs because of the mechanics behind it.
Misdirection, while looking good on paper, is a tough spell to cast and because it is a Aug/Debil hybrid the debuff is short lived and the buff to the caster is very short in duration compared to other stealth buffs. My bard with just under 300 Debil and just under 500 Aug can't even put 50 mana into the spell and has to cast it more than 5 times to lock stealth. The idea of the spell is great but the execution leaves a lot to be desired.
I think Misdirection would be a better PvP spell since Bards are survival tert and the debuff + buff would work more in their favor for a short fight, but RM is hands down a better PvE spell. Critters do not re-hide once out so buffing the room only benefits the player.
Rising Mists is an AoE stealth buff that works on different mechanics than other stealth buffs because it does not actually buff the Stealth skill, and seems a bit more potent than other stealth buffs. Maybe because it buffs the room instead of a single person, or it may scale in potency quicker than a direct skill buff. It is also stackable with other stealth buffs because of the mechanics behind it.
Misdirection, while looking good on paper, is a tough spell to cast and because it is a Aug/Debil hybrid the debuff is short lived and the buff to the caster is very short in duration compared to other stealth buffs. My bard with just under 300 Debil and just under 500 Aug can't even put 50 mana into the spell and has to cast it more than 5 times to lock stealth. The idea of the spell is great but the execution leaves a lot to be desired.
I think Misdirection would be a better PvP spell since Bards are survival tert and the debuff + buff would work more in their favor for a short fight, but RM is hands down a better PvE spell. Critters do not re-hide once out so buffing the room only benefits the player.
>>I also wear everything except bone and tend to swap out as needed. I have a set of bone armor as well I keep meaning to backtrain.
Just checking -- you know Bone armor is no longer a skill? Light armor is perhaps the easiest to add to a mixed set if you're looking to backtrain that. I typically use a cloth shirt or tabard, since it gives me a large piece that's low hindrance, and fill out the rest with the metal armors.
- Navesi
Just checking -- you know Bone armor is no longer a skill? Light armor is perhaps the easiest to add to a mixed set if you're looking to backtrain that. I typically use a cloth shirt or tabard, since it gives me a large piece that's low hindrance, and fill out the rest with the metal armors.
- Navesi
>>I also wear everything except bone and tend to swap out as needed. I have a set of bone armor as well I keep meaning to backtrain.
>>Just checking -- you know Bone armor is no longer a skill? Light armor is perhaps the easiest to add to a mixed set if you're looking to backtrain that. I typically use >>a cloth shirt or tabard, since it gives me a large piece that's low hindrance, and fill out the rest with the metal armors.
>>- Navesi
Doh, this is what I get for posting quickly. Sorry meant light armor, as I find it more interesting than leather usually. Mainly I swap out my gauntlets from plate to brigandine to light.
>>Just checking -- you know Bone armor is no longer a skill? Light armor is perhaps the easiest to add to a mixed set if you're looking to backtrain that. I typically use >>a cloth shirt or tabard, since it gives me a large piece that's low hindrance, and fill out the rest with the metal armors.
>>- Navesi
Doh, this is what I get for posting quickly. Sorry meant light armor, as I find it more interesting than leather usually. Mainly I swap out my gauntlets from plate to brigandine to light.
Does anyone train stealth within combat, or does that just not make any sense for Bards?
Just curious if the consensus would be leather even if hunting or PvP?
For shields, was curious if the disadvantage to wearing a small shield was so great that people recommmended trying to carry a larger one.
Just curious if the consensus would be leather even if hunting or PvP?
For shields, was curious if the disadvantage to wearing a small shield was so great that people recommmended trying to carry a larger one.
>> Does anyone train stealth within combat, or does that just not make any sense for Bards?
I guess they weren't explicit, but I think ILLIENA and NINEVAH1 were indicating that they train Stealth in combat, and PRIMEQ outright stated it. I'm the only one who specifically said he didn't train Stealth in combat, and that's just because Thievery is my top survival, and Stealth gets dragged alongside it from shoplifting, so I don't see the need to ambush or poach or anything.
I
Kneebiter Zhunee just arrived.
R>
Zhunee glances around the room and says, "Someone pull my finger."
R>
Kneebiter Zhunee runs west.
I guess they weren't explicit, but I think ILLIENA and NINEVAH1 were indicating that they train Stealth in combat, and PRIMEQ outright stated it. I'm the only one who specifically said he didn't train Stealth in combat, and that's just because Thievery is my top survival, and Stealth gets dragged alongside it from shoplifting, so I don't see the need to ambush or poach or anything.
I
Kneebiter Zhunee just arrived.
R>
Zhunee glances around the room and says, "Someone pull my finger."
R>
Kneebiter Zhunee runs west.
>>Does anyone train stealth within combat, or does that just not make any sense for Bards?
KUYKEND9 is right that we all train Stealth in combat, it's the best way to train the skill, and after a certain point the only way to train it. If you train Thievery like him then you can train Stealth along side it, but that slows down after a few hundred ranks.
>>Just curious if the consensus would be leather even if hunting or PvP?
Honestly, you are losing out on a lot of easy TDPs if you don't wear all 4 armor types while hunting. If you are just focused on RP, and don't care about numbers, then I'd go chain.
If you have any intentions of doing PvP, even a little bit, then you should train all 4 armors and wear chain while PvPing. As a survival tert guild you should not expect to be able to use stealth effectively in PvP. Perception is an easy skill to train now, so even against other survival tert guilds you aren't going to be able to hide without being seen most of the time. Chain has the widest range of protection while keeping manageable hinderance.
>>For shields, was curious if the disadvantage to wearing a small shield was so great that people recommmended trying to carry a larger one.
There is no disadvantage to wearing small shields. You can only wear a small shield on your arm since you are armor tert, and the hinderance from a larger shield would wreck your evasion more than the shield protection could make up for. Everyone who is not a Paladin uses small shields exclusively. Medium shields don't really give much more protection for the bump in hinderance and weight and large shields are too hindering for anyone to practically use that isn't a Paladin, and you can't wear either on your arm.
KUYKEND9 is right that we all train Stealth in combat, it's the best way to train the skill, and after a certain point the only way to train it. If you train Thievery like him then you can train Stealth along side it, but that slows down after a few hundred ranks.
>>Just curious if the consensus would be leather even if hunting or PvP?
Honestly, you are losing out on a lot of easy TDPs if you don't wear all 4 armor types while hunting. If you are just focused on RP, and don't care about numbers, then I'd go chain.
If you have any intentions of doing PvP, even a little bit, then you should train all 4 armors and wear chain while PvPing. As a survival tert guild you should not expect to be able to use stealth effectively in PvP. Perception is an easy skill to train now, so even against other survival tert guilds you aren't going to be able to hide without being seen most of the time. Chain has the widest range of protection while keeping manageable hinderance.
>>For shields, was curious if the disadvantage to wearing a small shield was so great that people recommmended trying to carry a larger one.
There is no disadvantage to wearing small shields. You can only wear a small shield on your arm since you are armor tert, and the hinderance from a larger shield would wreck your evasion more than the shield protection could make up for. Everyone who is not a Paladin uses small shields exclusively. Medium shields don't really give much more protection for the bump in hinderance and weight and large shields are too hindering for anyone to practically use that isn't a Paladin, and you can't wear either on your arm.
>>I guess when I saw people talking about switching out armor depending on if they were training stealth or not, I was assuming they were training down a little bit, that their frontier on hunting was non-stealth, and stealth was a little below level.
No, more that wearing all 4 armor types compounds stealth hinderance so much that you have to remove the metal pieces (most hindering) so that you can actually hide at level. Even on my Thief who has a couple hundred more ranks in stealth than combats has to at least remove his plate gauntlets to be able to hide, and he still gets pointed out sometimes.
If you are going to stick to 1-2 armor types and they are chain and light armor ignore the removing armor bits. If you go for TDPs then you are going to have to remove armor to hide at level, and even more so when moving into a new hunting area.
No, more that wearing all 4 armor types compounds stealth hinderance so much that you have to remove the metal pieces (most hindering) so that you can actually hide at level. Even on my Thief who has a couple hundred more ranks in stealth than combats has to at least remove his plate gauntlets to be able to hide, and he still gets pointed out sometimes.
If you are going to stick to 1-2 armor types and they are chain and light armor ignore the removing armor bits. If you go for TDPs then you are going to have to remove armor to hide at level, and even more so when moving into a new hunting area.
