Oh and one question...

I remember a GM saying that each guild will be able to boost 3 stats. I see AGI and REF on our list, but nothing else. Does that mean the CHA boost via BLUFF AMAZE counts as our third stat boost, or is that 3 stat blurb supposed to be for magic only?

-Evran

"RAGE + TEAR + EYE + RESO + HARM + DRUM + MISD + PRIDE + Your choice of Cyclic + AoE stun/knockdown as needed without losing buffs = OMG! I just crapped my pants!" -Evran

Don't know if you want to go around advertising that. I don't want to get nerfed :(

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~Leilond
http://www.elanthipedia.com/wiki/Leilond
http://soundsoftime.bravehost.com

My first thought after looking at the list is, we've lost a lot of abilities.

My second thought is, why is AURA still costing us a spell slot?!

I'm sure it will all work out, and I'm seriously happy that so many spells were made non-cyclic. Good times.

GENT

<<A lot of abilities you 'lost' were probably just 'The spell information did not contain that this enchante actually did this so Z did not know to put it in the list' :P I was trying not to change them very much and only improve them.

l2elanthipedia. ;)

(Just to make sure that I don't get smited, I'm kidding)

-Evran

"RAGE + TEAR + EYE + RESO + HARM + DRUM + MISD + PRIDE + Your choice of Cyclic + AoE stun/knockdown as needed without losing buffs = OMG! I just crapped my pants!" -Evran

Heh, have to admit having played a Bard exclusively for the past decade I feel like I'm cheating the system a little for being able to stack spells up like that. I feel so OP right now and the stuff isn't even released yet. I feel like Pinocchio becoming a real boy, except instead we're becoming a real guild.

__
~Leilond
http://www.elanthipedia.com/wiki/Leilond
http://soundsoftime.bravehost.com

>>Does that mean the CHA boost via BLUFF AMAZE counts as our third stat boost, or is that 3 stat blurb supposed to be for magic only?

I'm only tangentially involved in the magic stuff, but as the guy leading up the reworking of the mojo abilities I wouldn't worry too much. I just don't want the magic thread being derailed with that discussion -- We'll discuss what's happening with the other Bard abilities in the nearish future.

-Raesh

"Ever notice that B.A.'s flavor text swells in direct proportion to how much one of our characters is getting screwed?" - Brian Van Hoose

<<General offense boost is still here. It's just only found in Rage.

I think the 'accuracy' of Rage is different than the 'general offence' of Harmony, which is why I included both in the list. Its impossible to say without knowing what the behind the scenes stuff is, and they've always been incredibly vague about what Harmony boosts exactly.

That said, I'm content with the change from one to the other as evidenced by my non-bolding of that line, since it amounts to the same thing in the end.

-Evran

"RAGE + TEAR + EYE + RESO + HARM + DRUM + MISD + PRIDE + Your choice of Cyclic + AoE stun/knockdown as needed without losing buffs = OMG! I just crapped my pants!" -Evran

>>AHA! A synonym for 'soon' in GM speak!

Ehh... not really. I'm just juggling quite a few things at the moment (Both DR and RL) so it's hard to estimate a good timeline. I'll keep you guys up to date as so-- er, quickly as I can.

-Raesh

"Ever notice that B.A.'s flavor text swells in direct proportion to how much one of our characters is getting screwed?" - Brian Van Hoose

Here are some questions I have. There are not in any way complaints if we do not retain these abilities, they're merely questions of my own curiosity:

1. Previously Caress of the Sun dampened ice spells (and sometimes straight out nullified them based on power used) and helps against snowstorms. Will we be retaining that ability?

2. MERE dampened the air to reduce the damage of fire spells, does that still apply?

3. Phoenix Pyre used to make fire spells flare and increase damage, did I miss that or is that still part of the bargain?

4. Naga's Blessing was SUPPOSED to have an easter egg where you could possibly see naga at higher power levels once in awhile. With the rename and restyle of this enchante, can we possible see a fae flicking in and out of existence or the area? I think that would be really cool. I'd also like to see additional fae from the guardian spirit ones and sprites. Just a thought.

I love the spell list. Those are just some things I was curious about. If we don't retain these abilities, I'm okay with it. I think we have a ton to look forward to.


- Terra

>>A lot of abilities you 'lost' were probably just 'The spell information did not contain that this enchante actually did this so Z did not know to put it in the list' :P I was trying not to change them very much and only improve them.

Sounds good. I had figured that they were not omitted purposefully.

Can you comment on the relative strengths of our new spell list compared to the current list? Are some spells going to see an increase in effectiveness/strength to fall in line with Magic 3.0 directives, or the other way around?

I figure that most of our abilities currently fall within normal development guidelines and that spell splitting will fix any imbalances, but am still curious if anything is receiving a tweak on that end of things.

Thanks Z!

GENT

Here are a list of current effects that some enchantes have that you didn't include through either oversight or for a reason.

>Hodierna's Lilt
Gives a bonus to First Aid skill as well as reduces roundtimes for all wound tending. Also regenerates Concentration.

>Naming of Tears
Gives a bonus to Evasion.

>Redeemer's Pride
Gives a bonus to Multi Opponent.

>Call of the Siren
Prevents creatures/PCs from retreating who fail to resist the song.

>Drums of the Snake
Lowers the roundtimes for all disarming/lockpicking actions.

>Desert's Maelstrom
Gives a bonus to Evasion. Lowers balance of all who fail to resist the song.

>Caress of the Sun
Protects the area during severe weather (snowstorms). Provides a barrier against water/ice magic.

>Phoenix's Pyre
Enhances fire magics cast by the Bard or those in their group.

>Merelew's Legacy
Provides a barrier against fire magic, tried to stop fires (magical and mundane) in the area.

>Nexus
Gives a bonus to Primary Magic.

>Eillie's Cry
Bard can perform after hearing another Bard's death call as a way to respond that the call was heard. (A way to say help is on the way).

Now I realize that these are a lot of various effects, and I honestly don't see them all being included. All of the various Evasion buffs for instance would be very over powered if a single Bard could stack them all. For Caress of the Sun, I don't see it picking up the spell barrier effect and still retaining its zero spell slot count. But could it get the severe weather shield and still count for zero slots? Merelew's Legacy fire snuffing is another one we could maybe split, mundane snuffing for no extra slots?

Hopefully this list will help you! Thanks for all your hard work!

<<Drums of the Snake
Lowers the roundtimes for all disarming/lockpicking actions.>>

they did say that this would include the lockpick/disarm bonus. as a longtime player of a thief box-popper i can tell you that the reduced RT is a side-effect of having more skill. So therefore I believe this is already included in the bonus.

---

You've seen life through distorted eyes;You know you had to learn;The execution of your mind;You really had to turn;,the book is read,The end begins to show,The truth is out, the lies are old, But you don't want to know - Black Sabbath

Thanks so much for the list Z, and thanks to the other bards for your comments. I generally avoid the boards, so my initial thought on reading this list was ... "try to remain calm -- you hate change, but these could be good.. remain calm".

After several cleansing breaths and rereading several posts... I think it sounds like things could be great for bards.. BUT... I have a some reservations and concerns.. mostly dealing with playability and how will these changes affect rl-decade+-long roleplay styles?

If I'm reading this right, we're going to be doing a lot of "Casting" for our "Enchantes", especially in the combat boosting arena -- how will we learn say .. vocals/instruments in combat when we're going to be "casting" it to achieve the benefit? Will our vocal/music skills be factored into the power of our Magical pursuits? (takes another calming breath). I didn't see that mentioned anywhere.

As an example, one benefit of Harmony -- is that it's a great defensive boost/and slight offensive boost on quiet, and a pretty good offensive boost/good defensive boost on loud -- on this "cast" version -- is the option of choosing how you want to use the spell (defensive or offensive) going to be included or will the benefit from casting it going to equal the best of both at the same time? Not to mention, it works vocals pretty well too. The ability to bring us from prone to standing is a great benefit, will that stay?

Also, while I am not particularly a fan of the "quiet/Loud" mostly because we don't have a "super loud max out make eardrums bleed" option -- the loud quiet does offer the ability to tailor your magical abilities to suit your purpose. I get that we're going to have a lot more "options" open to us, especially with the ability to "cast" several of our "spells" at once, but in theory and playability -- I really just want to be sure that we're still going to remain bards and not mages with some musical ability.. and that thousands of ranks of lore to factor into the power of our MUSICAL magics.

Playability -- how will our instruments factor into the use of our magic in this new system? Will it be the same as it is now for the "cyclical" enchantes? Since it looks like we're going to lose several options open to us to learn music by singing/playing enchantes because they're going to be "Cast", are there enchantes on the development list to fill the gap?

Another benefit of Madman that I see is not listed -- pulling people from hiding who fail -- is that going to remain? I hope that this perk can be returned to Resolve and to DALU as well. Afterall.. if you're scared silly to the point you flop on the ground, remaining in hiding seems rather odd, the same with dalu.. if you're zonked out and asleep, how can you concentrate and remain hidden?

Will we get an option to not affect a group if we don't want to on enchantes?

How will these changes say, affect "triage" -- where you have several bards interacting to "help" -- (especially since lately undead creatures are not affected in the slightest to our any of our "stuff") -- how will the interaction of people work? Will we have to require people to "form a group" in triage to get the benefit of the "trio"...?

I like a lot of the options that I'm reading about -- I just want to know that playability is going to be better (aka we have as many options available to learn our lore skills), that we're going to remain truly bards and not be turned into mages who have musical abilities and that all the years of plinking is going to factor into the power of the magic we have.

I just want to be clear, I'm not complaining, I'm just trying to be constructive, understand what is being presented, and remain hopeful our uniqueness will be enhanced. Thanks again for everything you do for us!

Kat

<<they did say that this would include the lockpick/disarm bonus. as a longtime player of a thief box-popper i can tell you that the reduced RT is a side-effect of having more skill. So therefore I believe this is already included in the bonus.

That is incorrect. Drums currently provides both a boost to lockpicking/disarm skills as well as providing a further rt reduction. On top of that the AGI boost it provides helps doing boxes as well, in addition to the countless other things it affects.

The enchante is very much a box-popping enchante these days.

-Evran

"RAGE + TEAR + EYE + RESO + HARM + DRUM + MISD + PRIDE + Your choice of Cyclic + AoE stun/knockdown as needed without losing buffs = OMG! I just crapped my pants!" -Evran

I have rather general questions about Magic 3.0 and how it will have enchantes interacting with other Bards. If you can't answer now or don't know yet, I understand.

As it currently stands only one Bard can perform a specific enchante at a time in a given room. An example would be Faenella's Grace. Any other Bard trying to start this enchante gets messaged that they are joining in with the first Bard performing that song. Is this going to stay true with Magic 3.0? Since most of our enchantes are AoE I can see how having only one at a time is sometimes required, but for playability I would like to see any number of Bards play any songs. This is especially true for young Bards who don't have many songs to choose from to practice with.

Now speaking of young Bards, as it currently stands a young Bard typically can not play an enchante when other Bards are performing an enchante do to the songs clashing. To me this hinders young Bards banding together for teaching or hunting or even socialization. Can we just get rid of clashing enchantes for playability reasons?

I know more questions will be coming so I will thank you again for keeping us informed during this transition!

>If an effect wasn't listed it means that its going away.

I don't think you've read the thread. Many effects weren't listed because Zeyurn didn't know about them.

<<However, I was thinking about the mechanics of the new spells that pulse to your group and wondering...
<<Will the best way to defeat a bard in PvP be join <bard>?

That's not unique to the new spell type, its something we deal with now.

Its why Bards tend to have a higher ratio of AVOID !JOIN to AVOID JOIN compared to other guilds.

-Evran

"RAGE + TEAR + EYE + RESO + HARM + DRUM + MISD + PRIDE + Your choice of Cyclic + AoE stun/knockdown as needed without losing buffs = OMG! I just crapped my pants!" -Evran

Oh crap I just realized that with those spells that pulse to group members, will some mechanic be put in place to prevent these bonuses from applying to people who STALK us?

In terms of debillitating AOEs we have the option of CAST AREA to trump people who try to STALK us. I don't believe we have any way on our end to circumvent stalkers being classified as in our group, and I would hate for our "pulse to group members" spells to also pulse to people who are stalking me.

__
~Leilond
http://www.elanthipedia.com/wiki/Leilond
http://soundsoftime.bravehost.com

>>That currently is the best way to automatically nullify a bard in PvP. Even with avoids up, someone can cheeseball their way through a fight with you by stalking you (which apparently works even if you see them make the stalking attempt). It's crap. I believe they said that would be addressed a while ago, but I'd be hard pressed to figure out where or by whom it was posted.

I hear ya. Sometimes, you have to suck it up and scream though. When other people pull cheap cards, I think it's okay to pull your own unless you are confident that you can beat them without enchantes.


>>Damn it...why don't I ever think of the sneaky stuff?! lol

Ooooooh no you don't :-P


- Terra

>>We can't just rely on screams to make everything better when we probably won't have the OP variety of them for much longer. I would much rather they put a fix in place so our fair(read: non-cheap card) abilities can truly shine as they are supposed to.

You're right, we can't rely on it and scream needs to be fixed ASAP. I want nothing more than to be on even ground with people. But that even ground also should apply to people being able to stalk us and completely nullify our magic.

I watched a clever Bard use everything in their arsenal except scream and get wiped out by someone stalking them. If someone else is going to use bad mechanics to gain an advantage, maybe it's wrong but I don't see the problem in using them to your own benefit either. If you have no other options rather than surrender. And really, yeah Screams are unfair because they run on a non-combat skills but they're also not that great. What would make Scream Concussive truly great in my opinion is the ability to control how much power you put behind it, and the ability to aim it. I mean, over1k vocals and the most basic of creatures can survive a scream because it may be a limb hit? That's dumb. At that high of vocals, you should be able to sneeze and blow someone up.


- Terra