Previous Thread
Expand All
Collapse All
Ignore Author
Reply
One thing that I'm frustrated with is the fact that Empaths are essentially kept out of the MAGIC title category, because the requirements are that you have XXX number in your lowest magic. As it stands now, my 60 something ranks of targetted magic are keeping me from getting several titles. I don't think it's fair that a skill that does not count torward our guild requirements or have any use for us what-so-ever should hold us back from getting titles. Reexa could you please look into if this can be changed?
Or make a way for us to learn it? Like through manipulation or learning targetting by targetting healing magics? IE: healing a specific speed, or something...I dunno.
---
-Clemency
---
"Put your head up to my heart, hear me live and follow suit, this will all be over soon, it's gonna hurt a little." -Emberghost
---
-Clemency
---
"Put your head up to my heart, hear me live and follow suit, this will all be over soon, it's gonna hurt a little." -Emberghost
<<Or make a way for us to learn it?>>
TM is set up the same way weapon skills are, except, ya know, you can't parry with it. To learn you have to be in a class or do damage. If that whole allowing Empaths to fight constructs without shock thing comes out we'll be set for learning...If you memorize a fireball scroll.
~Nexty
TM is set up the same way weapon skills are, except, ya know, you can't parry with it. To learn you have to be in a class or do damage. If that whole allowing Empaths to fight constructs without shock thing comes out we'll be set for learning...If you memorize a fireball scroll.
~Nexty
>>If that whole allowing Empaths to fight constructs without shock thing comes out we'll be set for learning...If you memorize a fireball scroll.
I'd rather have a new spell book released designed specifically for the new ability. Maybe call it something like Dissolution or Deconstruction and include spells that work on specific types of the allowable critters. Interference might cause a boggle to collapse into its component items if strong enough, otherwise it might cause a stun or similar effect as some non-lethal effect interfered with the boggle's movements. I realize that the undead might not fall into our domain, but there probably will be animations and such like made from mundane objects held together by magic glue.
Of course, if spells can have both a contested and a TM application I'd much rather also have at least the 1st-tier healing spells (EWH, IWH, ESH, and ISH) allowed to be cast on others in the fashion of an attack command (ie, ATTACK to choose a random body part, ATTACK CHEST to target the chest).
J'Lo, no that other one
I'd rather have a new spell book released designed specifically for the new ability. Maybe call it something like Dissolution or Deconstruction and include spells that work on specific types of the allowable critters. Interference might cause a boggle to collapse into its component items if strong enough, otherwise it might cause a stun or similar effect as some non-lethal effect interfered with the boggle's movements. I realize that the undead might not fall into our domain, but there probably will be animations and such like made from mundane objects held together by magic glue.
Of course, if spells can have both a contested and a TM application I'd much rather also have at least the 1st-tier healing spells (EWH, IWH, ESH, and ISH) allowed to be cast on others in the fashion of an attack command (ie, ATTACK to choose a random body part, ATTACK CHEST to target the chest).
J'Lo, no that other one
>Didn't Energy Manacles used to teach TM?
Way back when yes it did. However it was determined since the skill check for EM to succeed didn't use TM very much if at all (i.e. people with 0 TM managing to manacle adan'f) that it shouldn't teach TM.
'Slimy Yet Satisfying' - Miko Mido
Supreme Bunny Overlord Zairius
Way back when yes it did. However it was determined since the skill check for EM to succeed didn't use TM very much if at all (i.e. people with 0 TM managing to manacle adan'f) that it shouldn't teach TM.
'Slimy Yet Satisfying' - Miko Mido
Supreme Bunny Overlord Zairius
<<However it was determined since the skill check for EM to succeed didn't use TM very much if at all (i.e. people with 0 TM managing to manacle adan'f) that it shouldn't teach TM>>
Also, it does no damage which is what TM learning is based on.
<<I'd rather have a new spell book released designed specifically for the new ability.>>
It's not so much a new ability, it's more bringing an aspect of shock more in line with what shock needs to work. Constructs move around on something that has nothing to do with the realm of life at all.
<< Interference might cause a boggle to collapse into its component items if strong enough,>>
Boggles are not on the list of constructs.
<<Of course, if spells can have both a contested and a TM application I'd much rather also have at least the 1st-tier healing spells (EWH, IWH, ESH, and ISH) allowed to be cast on others in the fashion of an attack command (ie, ATTACK to choose a random body part, ATTACK CHEST to target the chest).>>
TM requres damage to be done to learn anything. It's how the skill works. Even if a "TM application" was added, unless the spell does damage it won't award any TM exp.
I don't understand this whole "We need a way to learn TM" thing. We don't need it and it doesn't do anything for us. The one and only use we have right now for it is to get access to titles that have TM as a req. If you want that title that bad, go sit down and listen to a class.
~Nexty
~Nexty
Also, it does no damage which is what TM learning is based on.
<<I'd rather have a new spell book released designed specifically for the new ability.>>
It's not so much a new ability, it's more bringing an aspect of shock more in line with what shock needs to work. Constructs move around on something that has nothing to do with the realm of life at all.
<< Interference might cause a boggle to collapse into its component items if strong enough,>>
Boggles are not on the list of constructs.
<<Of course, if spells can have both a contested and a TM application I'd much rather also have at least the 1st-tier healing spells (EWH, IWH, ESH, and ISH) allowed to be cast on others in the fashion of an attack command (ie, ATTACK to choose a random body part, ATTACK CHEST to target the chest).>>
TM requres damage to be done to learn anything. It's how the skill works. Even if a "TM application" was added, unless the spell does damage it won't award any TM exp.
I don't understand this whole "We need a way to learn TM" thing. We don't need it and it doesn't do anything for us. The one and only use we have right now for it is to get access to titles that have TM as a req. If you want that title that bad, go sit down and listen to a class.
~Nexty
~Nexty
>>I don't understand this whole "We need a way to learn TM" thing. We don't need it and it doesn't do anything for us. The one and only use we have right now for it is to get access to titles that have TM as a req. If you want that title that bad, go sit down and listen to a class.<<
Agreed, we have absolutely no reason to need a way to learn Targeted Magic skill at all. If you ask me,a player whos prime character is a Warrior Mage, targetted magic is probably THE LEAST important magic skill anyone can have. For us it does damage, but our spells are offensive spells, its our thing, and it makes sense. Unless for some reason Empaths get a Chain Healing spell, I don't see why we would even need it. Spend more time being happy that you don't need to learn TM. The grass is always greener till you get to the other side.
~Villya
"Once you can accept the universe as matter expanding into nothing that is something, wearing stripes with plaid comes easy."
--Albert Einstein
Agreed, we have absolutely no reason to need a way to learn Targeted Magic skill at all. If you ask me,a player whos prime character is a Warrior Mage, targetted magic is probably THE LEAST important magic skill anyone can have. For us it does damage, but our spells are offensive spells, its our thing, and it makes sense. Unless for some reason Empaths get a Chain Healing spell, I don't see why we would even need it. Spend more time being happy that you don't need to learn TM. The grass is always greener till you get to the other side.
~Villya
"Once you can accept the universe as matter expanding into nothing that is something, wearing stripes with plaid comes easy."
--Albert Einstein
1) Thanks to everyone who left me a message. <3
2) Before I am unable to access the forums, I have been thinking of a way to learn TM for empaths but I don't know how ridiculous it seems. It makes sense to me...but it doesn't do damage, which is how TM learning is determined. Heart Link is a spell that is focused on a single target, requires 8-10 mana (i believe), and is an appropriate tool for an empath in combat. If we could make our ability to link an individual's heart dependent on our TM skill, we would be able to train TM, link critters at our level, etc. It may make using HL out of combat a bit more tricky (seeing as an empath may have no chance of linking a 90th barb unless they stance evasion 0 and lie down), but it would afford us a non-shock method of training TM. Just something I was tossing around in my head...mebbe it's not feasible, but I thought I would put it out there.
Raud
2) Before I am unable to access the forums, I have been thinking of a way to learn TM for empaths but I don't know how ridiculous it seems. It makes sense to me...but it doesn't do damage, which is how TM learning is determined. Heart Link is a spell that is focused on a single target, requires 8-10 mana (i believe), and is an appropriate tool for an empath in combat. If we could make our ability to link an individual's heart dependent on our TM skill, we would be able to train TM, link critters at our level, etc. It may make using HL out of combat a bit more tricky (seeing as an empath may have no chance of linking a 90th barb unless they stance evasion 0 and lie down), but it would afford us a non-shock method of training TM. Just something I was tossing around in my head...mebbe it's not feasible, but I thought I would put it out there.
Raud
<< Heart Link is a spell that is focused on a single target, requires 8-10 mana (i believe), and is an appropriate tool for an empath in combat.>>
Other then being needed to cast NB, how is Heart Link an appropriate tool for Empaths in combat?
<<If we could make our ability to link an individuals heart dependent on our TM skill, we would be able to train TM, link critters at our level, etc.>>
Well first off you run into the problem of learning TM without doing any damage. Other then a way to learn a skill that is useless for us there would not only be no benefit to this change but it would effectively weaken our ability with the spell.
<<It may make using HL out of combat a bit more tricky (seeing as an empath may have no chance of linking a 90th barb unless they stance evasion 0 and lie down),>>
Which will make a spell that was designed to help us heal useless to 90% of Empaths(granted it's not an amazingly useful spell, but at times it can be helpful). Not many Empaths have more then 100 ranks of TM, I'd be surprised if there were more then about 5 of us, and it means that those Empaths who don't want to be involved in combat will not be able to use a spell that was at least somewhat helpful before.
Empaths, out of all the other magic using guilds, do not need a way to train TM. Until there is something we can hunt no current or future spell will make sense to be a TM spell due to the current Magic Theory. TM is a magic prime "perk". Even when we can hunt something TM spells are for magic primes.
I still don't understand this push for a TM spell.
~Nexty
Other then being needed to cast NB, how is Heart Link an appropriate tool for Empaths in combat?
<<If we could make our ability to link an individuals heart dependent on our TM skill, we would be able to train TM, link critters at our level, etc.>>
Well first off you run into the problem of learning TM without doing any damage. Other then a way to learn a skill that is useless for us there would not only be no benefit to this change but it would effectively weaken our ability with the spell.
<<It may make using HL out of combat a bit more tricky (seeing as an empath may have no chance of linking a 90th barb unless they stance evasion 0 and lie down),>>
Which will make a spell that was designed to help us heal useless to 90% of Empaths(granted it's not an amazingly useful spell, but at times it can be helpful). Not many Empaths have more then 100 ranks of TM, I'd be surprised if there were more then about 5 of us, and it means that those Empaths who don't want to be involved in combat will not be able to use a spell that was at least somewhat helpful before.
Empaths, out of all the other magic using guilds, do not need a way to train TM. Until there is something we can hunt no current or future spell will make sense to be a TM spell due to the current Magic Theory. TM is a magic prime "perk". Even when we can hunt something TM spells are for magic primes.
I still don't understand this push for a TM spell.
~Nexty
>Even when we can hunt something TM spells are for magic primes.
Yeah, unfortunately. Although what would be fun would be to have a paralysis spell. Cast it and the limb, target becomes 'useless' if it takes enough damage. Useless limbs act like, well, useless limbs in normal combat. Useless critical body parts paralyze the critter. So, if you did enough damage, the critter would be lying on its back, unable to get up, no parry, no shield, no magic, nothing. Could call it ennervation. I.e. you're basically turning off the nerves in the critter's body.
Code wise, eh, it would take a different kind of wound, unfortunately, which makes it pretty much impossible. I.e. a stun wound, or just a wound that would turn off the function without the vitality damage. Sorta like what happens when you hit a garg. No blood, no stun, but if its totally useless, its totally useless. Far end on this idea are magic weapons that cause ennervation damage. Would also be very useful for subduing a miscreant.
Healing would be the same as any wound at that level. I.e. when the empath took it, it would act like a wound at that severity. Although it would be, even better, a great start to a whole new collection of wound 'types' that take different and sometimes greater skills to heal. Possibly even leading to specialist empaths. Eh, just all kinds of ideas down that line.
>I still don't understand this push for a TM spell.
Because all other magic users can cast TM spells, learn TM and get the titles and TDPs that go along with it outside of class. It's called envy and the fact that not all empaths are resigned to third class status.
Yeah, unfortunately. Although what would be fun would be to have a paralysis spell. Cast it and the limb, target becomes 'useless' if it takes enough damage. Useless limbs act like, well, useless limbs in normal combat. Useless critical body parts paralyze the critter. So, if you did enough damage, the critter would be lying on its back, unable to get up, no parry, no shield, no magic, nothing. Could call it ennervation. I.e. you're basically turning off the nerves in the critter's body.
Code wise, eh, it would take a different kind of wound, unfortunately, which makes it pretty much impossible. I.e. a stun wound, or just a wound that would turn off the function without the vitality damage. Sorta like what happens when you hit a garg. No blood, no stun, but if its totally useless, its totally useless. Far end on this idea are magic weapons that cause ennervation damage. Would also be very useful for subduing a miscreant.
Healing would be the same as any wound at that level. I.e. when the empath took it, it would act like a wound at that severity. Although it would be, even better, a great start to a whole new collection of wound 'types' that take different and sometimes greater skills to heal. Possibly even leading to specialist empaths. Eh, just all kinds of ideas down that line.
>I still don't understand this push for a TM spell.
Because all other magic users can cast TM spells, learn TM and get the titles and TDPs that go along with it outside of class. It's called envy and the fact that not all empaths are resigned to third class status.
>>Because all other magic users can cast TM spells, learn TM and get the titles and TDPs that go along with it outside of class. It's called envy and the fact that not all empaths are resigned to third class status.
Bards don't learn TM through practice...nor do Rangers (I think...Mrrar's kinda being clear...heh)
I know what you mean...but I not holding my breath for a TM spell for Empaths for a while...but then again, I don't have much of an opinion about it. For free TDPs, I'd rather play musical instruments before I listen to a TM class.
~Brady, player of I'm a Lover Not a Fighter Elavin Rismel.
You tap a pair of leather pants with a grey and a navy blue handkerchief stuffed in the right pocket that you are wearing.
Bards don't learn TM through practice...nor do Rangers (I think...Mrrar's kinda being clear...heh)
I know what you mean...but I not holding my breath for a TM spell for Empaths for a while...but then again, I don't have much of an opinion about it. For free TDPs, I'd rather play musical instruments before I listen to a TM class.
~Brady, player of I'm a Lover Not a Fighter Elavin Rismel.
You tap a pair of leather pants with a grey and a navy blue handkerchief stuffed in the right pocket that you are wearing.
Yeah...roones rattles and wands...the "rune" people are a weird sub-set of players...I've met a few of them...heh
Most interaction I've had with runes was with my Barbarian, who insisted on calling them runey snacks.
~Brady, player of I'm a Lover Not a Fighter Elavin Rismel.
You tap a pair of leather pants with a grey and a navy blue handkerchief stuffed in the right pocket that you are wearing.
Most interaction I've had with runes was with my Barbarian, who insisted on calling them runey snacks.
~Brady, player of I'm a Lover Not a Fighter Elavin Rismel.
You tap a pair of leather pants with a grey and a navy blue handkerchief stuffed in the right pocket that you are wearing.
>>It may make using HL out of combat a bit more tricky (seeing as an empath may have no chance of linking a 90th barb unless they stance evasion 0 and lie down)<<
that's so very not true, I've heart linked bigger barbs than that
Souv
You sense (N, S) from your current position:
A relatively healthy presence nearby.
Roundtime: 6 seconds
that's so very not true, I've heart linked bigger barbs than that
Souv
You sense (N, S) from your current position:
A relatively healthy presence nearby.
Roundtime: 6 seconds
The thing is, if you want to learn TM that badly for TDP reasons, go listen to some classes. There is really no GOOD reason why Empaths need to learn TM, other then TDPs or Magic Titles, and I don't consider those necessary reasons either.
~Villya
"Once you can accept the universe as matter expanding into nothing that is something, wearing stripes with plaid comes easy."
--Albert Einstein
~Villya
"Once you can accept the universe as matter expanding into nothing that is something, wearing stripes with plaid comes easy."
--Albert Einstein
<<that's so very not true, I've heart linked bigger barbs than that>>
Unless you've been listening to TM classes and have, well I really don't know how much TM you'd need to get a target matrix to stick on a 90th circle barb, but I'd think it'd be more then any Empath has today.
<<Because all other magic users can cast TM spells, learn TM and get the titles and TDPs that go along with it outside of class.>>
All other magic users can cause damage. TM is just a magical "weapon". Until we have a critter we can damage we wont be learning any sorta damage ability very well. Once we do we'll be able to cast TM spells via scrolls or whatever just like the other magic guilds that don't have direct access to TM spells.
<<It's called envy and the fact that not all empaths are resigned to third class status.>>
Our lack of TM spells doesn't resign Empaths to third class status. The fact we have no meaningful combat abilities and 90% of our income is via other PCs is what makes us third class.
We do not need TM spells. Combat spells that actually have an impact, yes. Spells that allow us to somehow get the goods off the critters, yes(I'd rather see an ability that did this, but I'll take whatever I can get). TM spells...nope.
~Nexty
Unless you've been listening to TM classes and have, well I really don't know how much TM you'd need to get a target matrix to stick on a 90th circle barb, but I'd think it'd be more then any Empath has today.
<<Because all other magic users can cast TM spells, learn TM and get the titles and TDPs that go along with it outside of class.>>
All other magic users can cause damage. TM is just a magical "weapon". Until we have a critter we can damage we wont be learning any sorta damage ability very well. Once we do we'll be able to cast TM spells via scrolls or whatever just like the other magic guilds that don't have direct access to TM spells.
<<It's called envy and the fact that not all empaths are resigned to third class status.>>
Our lack of TM spells doesn't resign Empaths to third class status. The fact we have no meaningful combat abilities and 90% of our income is via other PCs is what makes us third class.
We do not need TM spells. Combat spells that actually have an impact, yes. Spells that allow us to somehow get the goods off the critters, yes(I'd rather see an ability that did this, but I'll take whatever I can get). TM spells...nope.
~Nexty
>>Unless you've been listening to TM classes and have, well I really don't know how much TM you'd need to get a target matrix to stick on a 90th circle barb, but I'd think it'd be more then any Empath has today<<
A target matrix will stick to anyone, but it won't connect to a 90th circle barb, unless that barb really has crappy mentals and disc, and my 90th I doubt they would.
And I agree with Nexty yet again, we do not need, for any reason, any TM spells unless they let us do undead combat or something of that nature. And think of it this way, if we were allowed to use TM, our magic reqs that alot of people already complain about have a chance of going back to be changed to adjust for the added magic, and possibly made higher. I can tell you from experience that after a certain point TM gets incrediably hard to learn if you don't have a good spell.
I just don't see what the point is.
~Villya
"Once you can accept the universe as matter expanding into nothing that is something, wearing stripes with plaid comes easy."
--Albert Einstein
A target matrix will stick to anyone, but it won't connect to a 90th circle barb, unless that barb really has crappy mentals and disc, and my 90th I doubt they would.
And I agree with Nexty yet again, we do not need, for any reason, any TM spells unless they let us do undead combat or something of that nature. And think of it this way, if we were allowed to use TM, our magic reqs that alot of people already complain about have a chance of going back to be changed to adjust for the added magic, and possibly made higher. I can tell you from experience that after a certain point TM gets incrediably hard to learn if you don't have a good spell.
I just don't see what the point is.
~Villya
"Once you can accept the universe as matter expanding into nothing that is something, wearing stripes with plaid comes easy."
--Albert Einstein
I'd rather see lowest magic replaced by magic average in the magic title reqs, cause yeah, TM is problematic to rangers and paladins too and I don't think there are any plans to create TM spells for any of the guilds nor do I think it's necessary.
Some of the magic titles are really neat, but I just can't see myself learning 100 let alone 200 ranks of a skill (which I have no use for anyway) just to get a title. Maybe magic titles are intended for WMs, MMs and Clerics, but I think it would be rather unfair especially to empaths, because for example my magic skills are better than any of my lore skills, and not because I TRAIN it, it just comes with healing. I believe that to be the case with quite a lot of empaths. Plus paladins and rangers use magic quite alot too.
Rather offtopic, but all the astrology titles should be under moon mage titles, because again, not only is astrology learnable ONLY in class, it has no use for none of the other guilds but moonmages. Same goes for scouting. I'm a little annoyed by animal lore too, but at least they are PLANNING to create (somewhere in the distant future) more ways for other guilds to learn the skill and actually have a use for it. Leeches are moot because first aid alone takes care of them (ie abundance of AL does not compensate for lack of FA, the help of AL is negligible).
~Liisu Gunrencer, Bone Collector of M'Riss
Some of the magic titles are really neat, but I just can't see myself learning 100 let alone 200 ranks of a skill (which I have no use for anyway) just to get a title. Maybe magic titles are intended for WMs, MMs and Clerics, but I think it would be rather unfair especially to empaths, because for example my magic skills are better than any of my lore skills, and not because I TRAIN it, it just comes with healing. I believe that to be the case with quite a lot of empaths. Plus paladins and rangers use magic quite alot too.
Rather offtopic, but all the astrology titles should be under moon mage titles, because again, not only is astrology learnable ONLY in class, it has no use for none of the other guilds but moonmages. Same goes for scouting. I'm a little annoyed by animal lore too, but at least they are PLANNING to create (somewhere in the distant future) more ways for other guilds to learn the skill and actually have a use for it. Leeches are moot because first aid alone takes care of them (ie abundance of AL does not compensate for lack of FA, the help of AL is negligible).
~Liisu Gunrencer, Bone Collector of M'Riss
cheers Been waiting for someone to say something about the astrology titles. It just seems like creating that title category was a way to make it seem like all guilds have an equal amount of titles. I wanna see puppet master up there for empaths who can manipulate critters and have enough concentration to manipulate like 4 or 5 critters at once.
