My Empath has 369 Empathy, and is dancing in lower tier of gryphons. Manipulating them teaches Empathy, and while starting to slow down, isn't bad.

Weirdly though, I can only seem to Manipulate one gryphon at a time, even with GoL up. Is this normal? A critter with ~200-300 or so combat range taking up both of my manipulations? FWIW, I was able to manipulate two elder brocket deer with ~300 Empathy, ish?

Without knowing anything about your stats, I'd guess that it could possibly just be a matter of not having enough concentration. Did you try it with Tranquility and Mental Focus up?

The other thing I'd say is that maybe gryphons are just strong-willed; some creatures are easier to manipulate than others at a given skill level.

Thanks,
-Life Sustainer Karthor

Gryphons have significantly higher stats/skills than elder brocket deer also...

Since I'm thinking about it; what stats are involved in a manipulate attempt? Epedia suggests 'Intelligence, Charisma and possibly others', which is a little unclear. Is it a Mind/Charm contest?

Back when 3.0 came out it was said it doesn't run through the "core magic" system, so it likely does is own special snowflake thing like Caraamon said.

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Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.

>Out of curiosity, what other abilities are there in game that are under 'special' contests?

Everything ever that's not a spell or revamped barbarian/thief thing. Standard contests for anything is pretty new to DR, in the grand scheme.

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>Forgive my snark, but welcome to the life of a warrior mage.

Do traders still have speculate coin? That might be one.

I believe bard screams are a bit odd too, or at least they were.

Kodius has been tweaking barbarian chokes recently.