Re: Do we? on 02/09/2010 08:51 AM CST
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I'm far from a glorified human. I chose a kaldar after reading their history. I liked it. The gorbesh had become too militaristic. Kaldars wanted to get back to a more natural way of life. They are a strong proud people, who came to Kemoria after something. Now we seem a lost wondering people.

That's one reason it has always irked me that the only kaldar npc's I have seen were ship pilots. Would they have not try to settle down somewhere? Band together with others like them just to see familiar faces?


Oderint Dum Metuant
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Re: Do we? on 02/09/2010 08:51 AM CST
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I also wanted to add that I think that a GM once thought that Kaldars should be depicted like that of Native Americans. I have the Kaldar wedding ensemble and it looks a bit Native American to me.

The Kaldar may be war like in that sense.
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Re: Do we? on 02/09/2010 09:06 AM CST
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There have been characters in the last two Bioware games that really remind me of the Kaldar lore -- the Qunari of Dragon Age, and the Paragon in Mass Effect 2.



>
The guard stares at you and swears. The guard says, "I do not see why you even bother living."
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Re: Do we? on 02/09/2010 11:42 AM CST
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>>That's one reason it has always irked me that the only kaldar npc's I have seen were ship pilots. Would they have not try to settle down somewhere? Band together with others like them just to see familiar faces?

There are a few Kaldar NPCs who aren't on ships. Vishlan for instance. That said...

Kaldar tend to be all about the individual glory. That's part, I believe, of what made them cast aside the "weakness" of the regimented/regimental Gorbesh lifestyle (pretty sure something somewhere supports that, I'd have to look it up for an exact citation). Also, the Gorbesh race has a long, proud history of seafaring, so it doesn't surprise me many would take to a life at sea.

If I were to draw parallels I'd say the Gorbesh lifestyle is akin to ancient Sparta (individual glory is good, but ultimately all for the state). The Kaldar lifestyle is much more akin to hunter-gatherers crossed with Vikings (individual glory first, contributing as part of a fighting unit when needed, because numbers are necessary and useful, or because the Emperor commands it for those who remain loyal in Albaria).

Just my take.

Squire Xalahai Zayasero, Player of
"This idea may have worked in another time and another place, but here it immediately fell on its face and went 'Durp durp.'" - Armifer
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Re: Do we? on 02/09/2010 02:12 PM CST
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>That's one reason it has always irked me that the only kaldar npc's I have seen were ship pilots.

The leader of the Crossing Trader Guild is a Kaldar. There's also a big and tall store in riverhaven run by Kaldar and Gor'togs. If you think about it, Kaldar have only been in Elanthia for a few decades. Hardly enough to get established in any real sense.

>I also wanted to add that I think that a GM once thought that Kaldars should be depicted like that of Native Americans.

...uh, no. The Wind Elves already fit that analog and I hate seeing cultures in-game that are lifted wholesale from real-life stereotypes. Personal preference aside, the Kaldar clearly have better technology and a far different state system than most (or rather, all) Native American tribes.

>The Kaldar may be war like in that sense.

LOL WHAT
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Re: Do we? on 02/09/2010 02:40 PM CST
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A small note reads:
The clothing on this mannequin represents a lovely Kaldaran wedding ensemble. ~~ Ethna ~~

some thin leather-strapped sandals threaded with tiny carved beads
Price: 2300 Dokoras
Pale wooden beads are carved with the image of various flowers. The thin straps are long enough to lace up the calves, cinched at the top by tiny gold coin clasps.

a soft ivory doeskin skirt edged in beaded fringe
Price: 2884 Dokoras
Pale wooden beads take on the form of various flowers, their petals carved in fine detail. The supple skirt falls to mid-calf with its seams embroidered with tiny green leaves and golden acorns.

a soft ivory doeskin bodice laced up the front with pale leather cord
Price: 4104 Dokoras
Sleeveless, this bodice is embroidered along its seams with tiny green leaves and golden acorns. The thin leather cord weaves its way down the front of the bodice to be cinched at the bottom with a tiny gold coin clasp.

a pale carved wooden armband with a single dangling owl feather
Price: 1398 Dokoras
Tiny leaves and acorns are carved upon this armband and are painted in dark greens and gold. An owl peeks out from behind one of the leaves, the dangling feather clasped in its tiny claws.


These are clothing items for a female Kaldar, and in my opion they seemed Native American and rangerly in design.

All I was saying is that, perhaps a GM when he/she was in the room to design clothing for a Kaldaran wedding outfit, they might have envisioned Kaldars wearing more natural attire during a wedding ceremony. Carved beads, sandals.... These items are hardly ones that a paladin, barbarian or war-mage would wear.

And many Native Americans ARE war-like.
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Re: Do we? on 02/09/2010 03:16 PM CST
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I think it's pretty ignorant to say stuff like "they're like native americans!" because it's not like native americans are a single cultural group or anything remotely like that. Tribes and their cultures and their beliefs differ a LOT depending on where you are and who you are talking to. It's more than just the crap you see in westerns and watching Pocahontas.

I have full-blooded great grandparents so maybe my perspective here is different.



Rev. Reene

Xalahai says to you, "Don't you know me? I'm Jhipicalain, the awesomest warrior mage ever."
Xalahai says, "Then I will go hide in my tower where nobody can get to me. Because I am the greatest. Ever."
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Re: Do we? on 02/09/2010 03:21 PM CST
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You're confusing doeskin with buckskin. Doeskin is usually wool, especially when we're talking about a shirt. A white shirt. Is it more likely that it's made of warm woven cloth, or that it came out of Bruno's closet?

You're also confusing "native american" with a designation that accurately represents a wildly heterogenous group of people.

I don't want to make this a giant racial debate, but since nearly all native american tribes were pre-state societies and lacked even bronze age technology, no, they didn't really tend to engage in war on any scale larger than the occasional raid. The Kaldar are in another league for so many reasons that the comparison is completely stupid.
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Re: Do we? on 02/09/2010 04:27 PM CST
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>>I don't want to make this a giant racial debate, but since nearly all native american tribes were pre-state societies and lacked even bronze age technology, no, they didn't really tend to engage in war on any scale larger than the occasional raid.

There's substantial misunderstandings about the level of technology and culture in North America pre-colonization, primarily because -- as best as we can figure -- over half the population of North America had been wiped out due to European diseases that the early explorers brought.

At the very least, there's strong evidence to support sophisticated nations along the Mississippi, the Hopi were city dwellers and the Central American natives were building empires.

-Armifer
"In our days truth is taken to result from the effacing of the living man behind the mathematical structures that think themselves out in him, rather than he be thinking them." - Emmanuel Levinas
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Re: Do we? on 02/09/2010 05:19 PM CST
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>At the very least, there's strong evidence to support sophisticated nations along the Mississippi, the Hopi were city dwellers and the Central American natives were building empires.

True, but these people weren't wearing steel platemail and blowing up the Vatican in 1600, and neither were any of their neighbors or trading partners.

Just saying, it's a fairly nonsensical comparison.
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Re: Do we? on 02/09/2010 05:20 PM CST
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Definition of Doeskin:

The skin of a doe, deer, or goat.
Leather made from this skin, used especially for gloves.
A fine, soft, smooth woolen fabric.
A densely napped finish for certain woolen fabrics, such as flannel.

And there are many pictures online that that show doeskin as a tan leather.

It seems it has stuck a cord with a few of you for me to mention that maybe wearing doeskin wedding clothes with carved wooden beads could actually resemble something a Native American Indian woman might wear.

I didn't realize that commenting about my opinion, """"MY OPINION"""", to the person that started this post would cause such heat.

Everyone seems to want to be augumentative and only interested in being right.

I compared a few aspects of clear Native American virtues with that of the Kaldar. I did not broadly state that they were exactly alike. If in MY opinion I think that they resemble a Native American tribe then please do not get so offended if it differs from what your view of what a Kaldar are like.
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Re: Do we? on 02/09/2010 07:03 PM CST
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>> I think it's pretty ignorant to say stuff like "they're like native americans!"

Calling people "ignorant" is just going to cause problems. Everyone has a right to THINK or have thier opinion or visions. Laeorna is not ignorant about anything being married to someone also with a native american heritage. Most of us don't take it personally, it's a game and roleplay.

>> they didn't really tend to engage in war on any scale larger than the occasional raid.

French and Indian War, Revolutionary war, second seminole war? American indians have been fighting thier whole lives throughout history. Most were large scale wars or simply tribes being involved in them. It was more than just an occassional raid party. I'm really trying to get off topic here, sorry.


If you think of a Kaldar it would be easy to assume they LIVE like native americans in the wild, so do rangers for that matter and I think that's what she meant. Wind elves do seem to have a patent on the whole native american culture ideal from a in game sense according to how horse clan looks.

I always visioned Kaldar more of a viking like race. Maybe not so much the Kaldar, but perhaps the Gorbesh. I also believe lore indicates they were/are excellent ship builders and masters of naval vessels/sailors so that may be why you see so many as captains of boats. I have seen many other NPC's as well. Doeskin can be used two different ways. As a leather, you remove the hair and tan the skin. This is used for many items including clothing. The hair itself can be use for weaving to make clothing which is the other form of use. I know this from living around people my whole life that hunt to live and most use every part of the animal they can. When I was younger I toyed around with tanning as well, it's a fun hobby. Also,Yes, some people still hunt to feed thier families. We're good old folk out here in rural North Carolina.

I also don't think because the Kaldar returned to nature they are any less apt to go to war with someone. Sure, they aren't war mongering like the Gorbesh there are many circumstances where they have fought though. The battled along side the Gorbesh and with the Gorbesh. Many in game are paladins, they aren't Gorbesh. Many are rangers, war mages, ect. ect. ect. I think most Kaldar are killing undead are they? Fight against the outcast in the outcast war? Well, then they're able to war with stuffs.

Some comments were made in other posts on how nice and ritzy some kaldar items have been in the past, silks I think. I don't see any reason they should not be. A kaldar that does not wish to take up a sword or bow could have easily took up a trade. Tanner, tailor, cook, or any other type of craftsman. Given enough time and passing the knowledge down generation to generation, it has been a while since the kaldar arrived in Kermoria, there's no reason these trademen and tradeswomen would not have fine tuned thier skills to be elite crafters. Also, just because a Kaldar item is made does not necessarily mean it's for a Kaldar or has to be. Perhaps some princess or King enjoys the fine feel of icesilk or the look of Albarian lace.


No ranger stands alone.
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Re: Do we? on 02/09/2010 07:06 PM CST
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Remember the actual definition of ignorant is that you don't know something. Ignorant != stupid. If you get super insulted by someone saying that you don't seem to know about something I don't know what to tell you.

Regardless Kaldar definitely seem a lot more nordic than anything else.



Rev. Reene

Xalahai says to you, "Don't you know me? I'm Jhipicalain, the awesomest warrior mage ever."
Xalahai says, "Then I will go hide in my tower where nobody can get to me. Because I am the greatest. Ever."
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Re: Do we? on 02/09/2010 07:20 PM CST
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>>True, but these people weren't wearing steel platemail and blowing up the Vatican in 1600, and neither were any of their neighbors or trading partners.

Certainly, there's no question that Eurasia developed a level of technology undreamed of by America. But they were certainly more advanced on the whole than the popular "nomads in teepees" image, and particularly in the southern US and Central America, absolutely not strangers to nation-level war.

Technology alone would not have stopped the North Americans from throwing the European settlers back into the sea -- for (most of our) fathers' sake, politics and plagues also factored heavily into the colonization of America.

-Armifer
"In our days truth is taken to result from the effacing of the living man behind the mathematical structures that think themselves out in him, rather than he be thinking them." - Emmanuel Levinas
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Re: Do we? on 02/09/2010 07:39 PM CST
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A good portion of Eurasian technological development also went to counteracting Eurasian military technological development, and old tech quickly was left behind. By colonial times, armor that would have protected well against arrows was entirely obsolete against Eurasian firearms and thus fairly rare. Powhatan Confederation archers were able to skirmish in and fire six shots for every one shot reported by colonists at Jamestown, all the while maintaining proper cover behind trees. Settlers were unable to keep up, and desperately needed consistent reinforcement from England. If it weren't for Wahunsunacawh's death, Virginia may not have taken off.

And yes, I cheated and looked up his name so that I didn't have to reference anything mentioned in the Pocahontas story.



>
The guard stares at you and swears. The guard says, "I do not see why you even bother living."
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Re: Do we? on 02/09/2010 07:49 PM CST
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DO WE?!?

I don't even know how this thread started, but it's going places.

Let's see if history lessons can top awesomesilk



"That's how I knew who you were. You were always like "Blah blah blah I'm a Barbarian oh-my-god." -my gf
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Re: Do we? on 02/09/2010 11:06 PM CST
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Personal roleplay will of course differ, because it's reasonable to expect that different Kaldar would develop different personalities based largely on the differing experiences they have had since journeying to (or growing up in) Elanthia. I'm glad to see this thread explode, though.

More interest = more players = more ideas


"I hate you so much right now." -GM Armifer
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Re: Do we? on 02/09/2010 11:47 PM CST
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Kaldar are Rakash now?



Rev. Reene

Xalahai says to you, "Don't you know me? I'm Jhipicalain, the awesomest warrior mage ever."
Xalahai says, "Then I will go hide in my tower where nobody can get to me. Because I am the greatest. Ever."
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Re: Do we? on 02/09/2010 11:51 PM CST
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>>Also,Yes, some people still hunt to feed thier families. We're good old folk out here in rural North Carolina.

Btw, that was some great venison stew you made the other day dear. Delicious, yum yum yum, lick, lick slurp.
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Re: Do we? on 02/10/2010 12:08 AM CST
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dude you just went from misinformed to creepy in like 2 posts
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Re: Do we? on 02/10/2010 12:23 AM CST
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Hey....You....girl....

If you have a problem with me lets take it outside and handle it like real Kaldar women would.

I envision it going down something like this....

[ The Forest Of Ignorance]
Alone, in the ground covering grass, stands a tall, proud, yet oddly colored oak tree. Spreading wide its thick limbs, the tree offers shade and protection from the elements. Beneath the tree, the grass is broken, trampled, and torn. Bone, hide, and the distinct odor of blood mark this place as home to the beasts of lesser Kaldars.

Obvious paths: north, northeast, east, southeast, south, west, northwest.

A Rev. Reene gracefully trots into the area.

The Rev. Reene begins to advance on you!

The Rev. Reene is still a distance away from you and is closing steadily.

You slowly circle around Rev. Reene.

[You're incredibly balanced and overwhelming opponent.]
Roundtime: 3 sec.

Moving with grace, Rev. Reene slices wide at you. You evade, managing to get out of the way with a minimum of effort.

[You're incredibly balanced and in superior position.]

Moving with grace, you kick your steel-toed footwrap at Rev. Reene. Rev. Reene attempts to dodge, taking the full blow. The footwrap lands a hard hit that painfully mashes the right arm.

[You're incredibly balanced and overwhelming opponent.]
[Roundtime 3 sec.]

You slowly circle around Rev. Reene.

[You're incredibly balanced and in dominating position.]
Roundtime: 4 sec.

Moving well, Rev. Reene claws at you. You dodge, leaping aside like a cunning cat.
[You're incredibly balanced and in dominating position.]

Moving well, you jab your spiked knuckle at Rev. Reene. Rev. Reene fails to evade, mis-stepping and blundering into the blow. The knuckle lands a brushing hit to Rev. Reenes right arm.

[You're incredibly balanced and in dominating position.]
[Roundtime 1 sec.]

Moving well, Rev. Reene claws at you. You dodge, leaning just out of harm's reach.
[You're incredibly balanced and in excellent position.]

With strength, you kick your steel-toed footwrap at Rev. Reene. Rev. Reene fails to evade, mis-stepping and blundering into the blow. The footwrap lands a strong hit that thumps painfully on the toes of the left foot.

[You're incredibly balanced and overwhelming opponent.]
[Roundtime 3 sec.]

Moving well, Rev. Reene claws at you. You dodge, barely leaning out of harm's reach.
[You're incredibly balanced and in excellent position.]

With strength, you slice your spiked knuckle at Rev. Reene. Rev. Reene attempts to dodge, mis-stepping and blundering into the blow. The knuckle lands a good strike to the Rev. Reenes abdomen.

[You're incredibly balanced and overwhelming opponent.]
[Roundtime 3 sec.]

Moving with grace, Rev. Reene claws at you. You evade, twisting to one side.
[You're incredibly balanced and overwhelming your opponent.]

Moving well, you gouge your fingers at Rev. Reene. Rev. Reene fails to evade, mis-stepping and blundering into the blow. The fingers lands a solid hit that barely punctures the skin on the upper chest causing a slight welt, lightly stunning it.

[You're incredibly balanced and overwhelming opponent.]
[Roundtime 1 sec.]

Moving well, you slap your spiked knuckle at Rev. Reene. Rev. Reene fails to evade, failing miserably. The knuckle lands a good strike to the Rev. Reenes left arm.

[You're incredibly balanced and overwhelming opponent.]
[Roundtime 1 sec.]

Losing ground quickly, Rev. Reene claws at you. You dodge, ducking casually.
[You're incredibly balanced and overwhelming your opponent.]

Strongly, you claw your fingers at Rev. Reene. Rev. Reene attempts to evade, failing miserably. The fingers lands a good hit that nicks the neck with a light scratch, stunning it.

[You're incredibly balanced and overwhelming opponent.]
[Roundtime 2 sec.]

You stalk Rev. Reene in a circle, managing to get slightly to one side.
[You're incredibly balanced and overwhelming opponent.]
Roundtime: 4 sec.

Rev. Reene slowly tips over and falls down.

Moving well, you jab your spiked knuckle at Rev. Reene. Rev. Reene fails to dodge, failing miserably. The knuckle lands a brushing strike to the Rev. Reenes abdomen.
[You're incredibly balanced and overwhelming opponent.]
[Roundtime 1 sec.]

Attacking forcefully, you kick your steel-toed footwrap at Rev. Reene. Rev. Reene attempts to evade, failing miserably. The footwrap lands an extremely heavy hit that rips skin and snaps bone with a hard blow to the right leg.

Rev. Reene whines briefly before closing her eyes forever.
[You're incredibly balanced]
[Roundtime 3 sec.]

Laeorna spits.

Laeorna wipes her mouth.

Laeorna shouts "Huzzah!"
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Re: Do we? on 02/10/2010 01:49 AM CST
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Everybody needs to stop and take a breath, put on thier Awesomesilk PJ's, and sit back to enjoy Idons'buddy and youngm21 pillow fight it out. Then we may proceed.

On a side note any chance someone could pop in to give those of us that actually play a Kaldar character some word on who's looking out for us or any plans in the future?


No ranger stands alone.
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Re: Do we? on 02/10/2010 01:53 AM CST
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I honestly have no idea what the hell just happened in this folder.



Rev. Reene

Xalahai says to you, "Don't you know me? I'm Jhipicalain, the awesomest warrior mage ever."
Xalahai says, "Then I will go hide in my tower where nobody can get to me. Because I am the greatest. Ever."
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Re: Do we? on 02/10/2010 01:58 AM CST
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>>I honestly have no idea what the hell just happened in this folder.

Misunderstanding......

Curious, what sort of items would people like to see that are Kaldar/Albarian vs Gorbesh items.


No ranger stands alone.
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Re: Do we? on 02/10/2010 02:50 AM CST
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>I honestly have no idea what the hell just happened in this folder.

Yeah, Rev. Reene wouldn't circle around or brawl you, she'd just mind blast you with facts and cynicism!
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Re: Do we? on 02/10/2010 05:15 AM CST
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>Curious, what sort of items would people like to see that are Kaldar/Albarian vs Gorbesh items.

I'm more curious where these Renee mobs are and where they fit on What 2 Hunt.




>
The guard stares at you and swears. The guard says, "I do not see why you even bother living."
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Re: Do we? on 02/10/2010 05:20 AM CST
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Let's get back on topic.

Kaldars and Awesomesilk, remember?


___
Any questions or comments, please contact me at Mod-Svafa@play.net or Message Board Supervisor Annwyl at DR-Annwyl@play.net.
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Re: Do we? on 02/10/2010 07:17 AM CST
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>>Kaldars and Awesomesilk, remember?

Super duper secret silks?

I'd like to see some Kaldar items or shops added in, a village, maybe a bit of Gorbesh/kaldar NPC roleplay action, racial titles, anything would be neat. I had a strange idea of a Kaldar village that could only be accessed by traveling through the hand. Though that wouldn't make sense would it? That would be in Albaria. Also, there's no way to access the area without a Emerald Knight badge. Hrm, NPC Emerald Knight escort?

>>Ask knight about escort.





No ranger stands alone.
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Re: Do we? on 02/10/2010 07:46 AM CST
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>>Curious, what sort of items would people like to see that are Kaldar/Albarian vs Gorbesh items.

I'd like to see an Albarian war horn that increases the hunting spawn in the Reene area. Only one generates per hunter, and sometimes none generate at all when she isn't in the mood.

I'd also like to see something like an Albarian water blade because IIRC Reenes are weak against water.


"Limited in nature yet infinite in desire - men are like fallen gods."
- Alphonse de Lamartine
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Re: Do we? on 02/10/2010 10:04 AM CST
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I'd just like to thank everyone who has given nice background information, and defended their ideas with some grace instead of out right attacks a very large thank you. I'd also like to thank everyone who just responded, this definitely seems like a race where there is a lot more of a want to role-play then some of the others (though I am only using posts on the forums for this very arbitrary belief).

Once again thanks, and continue to delve into the deeper Kaldar!

_____________________________________
Seriously, there's no reason to ever go that high aside from sheer laziness. Or a bug that lodges 23982 pieces of shrapnel in you, but...er...yeah.

- GM Dartenian
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Re: Do we? on 02/10/2010 12:55 PM CST
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You left out Musparan and kniynit silk made from sand spiders.

Eylhaar whispers, "Celitha, to Myself come you now. This life abandon and to the Void yourself give. Without pain or strife My eternal abode is. The touch of the Void feel you now."
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Re: Do we? on 02/10/2010 12:59 PM CST
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>>[Albarian Fashions Tent]
You see an awesome table and a rad table.
Obvious Exits: None.
>look on awesome table
On the awesome table you see some awesomesilk.
>look awesomesilk
The awesomesilk was made BY KALDAR, FOR KALDAR.

Pretty sure GM Tiesse originally had awesomesilk, which would make it a silk for Human Thieves. (but only really cool female ones)


Eylhaar whispers, "Celitha, to Myself come you now. This life abandon and to the Void yourself give. Without pain or strife My eternal abode is. The touch of the Void feel you now."
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Re: Do we? on 02/10/2010 01:08 PM CST
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A lot of beaded fringe, feathers, carved beads, doeskin style clothing also applies to Wind Clan Elves, so I am not sure you can really say Kaldars own this style, some River Elven clothing is also like this, as are several general Ranger type items.

Eylhaar whispers, "Celitha, to Myself come you now. This life abandon and to the Void yourself give. Without pain or strife My eternal abode is. The touch of the Void feel you now."
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Re: Do we? on 02/10/2010 01:15 PM CST
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>> You left out Musparan and kniynit silk made from sand spiders.

Musparan silk doesn't count because it's on the same vein as Persian silk.

But sure, khiynit counts.



Rev. Reene

Xalahai says to you, "Don't you know me? I'm Jhipicalain, the awesomest warrior mage ever."
Xalahai says, "Then I will go hide in my tower where nobody can get to me. Because I am the greatest. Ever."
Reply Reply