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I think it would be pretty neat if there was a dye shop in town that would dye items to Rakash translated color options. Nothing really intricate, just the basic color palette would be fine I think. IE: I think just black = relna as opposed to night black = tursiva relna would be fine for most players. However, anything at all would be wonderful.
* SPLAT! * You destroy the annoying thing!
Have to agree that I don't like nouns being things I don't understand in common english.
Can you imagine someone only wearing racial language equipment to gain an unfair advantage in character conflict?
"Well commander, he seems to be wielding an aslajjefic now. I think we should use ranged now that he's at a disadvantage wielding that weapon."
"Eh? What exactly is an aslajjefic? How do you know he's at a disadvantage?"
"I'm just guessing sir... I'm actually not sure if he's wielding a sword, a hammer, a dagger or a crossbow for that matter. Say, that harfenlagle... is that a shield? Maybe it's light armor..! We should use FIRE on him! Cloth is weak against fire!"
~Leilond
http://tinyurl.com/Leilond-Portrait
http://drzeal.forumotion.com Learn How to PvP!
Can you imagine someone only wearing racial language equipment to gain an unfair advantage in character conflict?
"Well commander, he seems to be wielding an aslajjefic now. I think we should use ranged now that he's at a disadvantage wielding that weapon."
"Eh? What exactly is an aslajjefic? How do you know he's at a disadvantage?"
"I'm just guessing sir... I'm actually not sure if he's wielding a sword, a hammer, a dagger or a crossbow for that matter. Say, that harfenlagle... is that a shield? Maybe it's light armor..! We should use FIRE on him! Cloth is weak against fire!"
~Leilond
http://tinyurl.com/Leilond-Portrait
http://drzeal.forumotion.com Learn How to PvP!
I will be the first one to admit that I love my gamantangs and uaro's'sugis. Everything not in S'Kra, I usually quickly search Elanthipedia for, if I care.
I've even been a vocal advocate for S'Kra titles and submitted a moderate list of them. I have to agree though, if something isn't shaped a certain way in order to not be a regular item that your character would recognize, I'd prefer it be English.
IE: gamantangs, uaro's'sugis, odajs, rasha'hhso'grath are shaped/crafted a specific way, despite translation being "oh well duh, it's just a <house coat, head guard, robe, flower of the hand>."
---
Inauri
I've even been a vocal advocate for S'Kra titles and submitted a moderate list of them. I have to agree though, if something isn't shaped a certain way in order to not be a regular item that your character would recognize, I'd prefer it be English.
IE: gamantangs, uaro's'sugis, odajs, rasha'hhso'grath are shaped/crafted a specific way, despite translation being "oh well duh, it's just a <house coat, head guard, robe, flower of the hand>."
---
Inauri
>>translated words
While I can understand that you might not want this. That doesn't somehow invalidate it. It is established that some of these colors are already out there. I don't want a bunch more, just the option to put them on more things. Since there are some Rakash templates already in place for the weapons, I don't see it as a far stretch.
Like I said, simple tones. Maybe black, red, brown, green, blue, and white. That would be wonderful and keep it from being too garish for those who don't like these things.
Like it or not, there are numerous items out there that are styled for a certain race and uses words from that race's language.
* SPLAT! * You destroy the annoying thing!
While I can understand that you might not want this. That doesn't somehow invalidate it. It is established that some of these colors are already out there. I don't want a bunch more, just the option to put them on more things. Since there are some Rakash templates already in place for the weapons, I don't see it as a far stretch.
Like I said, simple tones. Maybe black, red, brown, green, blue, and white. That would be wonderful and keep it from being too garish for those who don't like these things.
Like it or not, there are numerous items out there that are styled for a certain race and uses words from that race's language.
* SPLAT! * You destroy the annoying thing!
>>While I can understand that you might not want this. That doesn't somehow invalidate it.
It's not a matter of what I or anyone else wants really, I'm just trying to argue what is and isn't fair.
I will pose a question to you. Do you think it's fair that I or any other player should have to research what your hijimagatsu is as you're killing us with it? Do you think that maybe I could better defend myself if I knew your weapon was an edged, or a blunt weapon? Especially in Combat 3.0 when that sort of stuff is supposed to have more significance due to combat lasting longer?
Unfair advantages in PvP due to incomprehensible nouns of key items in combat seems like a valid reason something should not exist. But who knows, I could be mis-understanding the definition of game balance :)
~Leilond
http://tinyurl.com/Leilond-Portrait
http://drzeal.forumotion.com Learn How to PvP!
It's not a matter of what I or anyone else wants really, I'm just trying to argue what is and isn't fair.
I will pose a question to you. Do you think it's fair that I or any other player should have to research what your hijimagatsu is as you're killing us with it? Do you think that maybe I could better defend myself if I knew your weapon was an edged, or a blunt weapon? Especially in Combat 3.0 when that sort of stuff is supposed to have more significance due to combat lasting longer?
Unfair advantages in PvP due to incomprehensible nouns of key items in combat seems like a valid reason something should not exist. But who knows, I could be mis-understanding the definition of game balance :)
~Leilond
http://tinyurl.com/Leilond-Portrait
http://drzeal.forumotion.com Learn How to PvP!
>Like it or not, there are numerous items out there that are styled for a certain race and uses words from that race's language.
Explain to me why my character should be seeing a color and using its Rakash name for it in his head just because you used the super special dye shop? It makes sense for items that have no equivalent in English, not for anything else.
<<While I can understand that you might not want this. That doesn't somehow invalidate it. It is established that some of these colors are already out there. I don't want a bunch more, just the option to put them on more things. Since there are some Rakash templates already in place for the weapons, I don't see it as a far stretch.
Yeah, and they shouldn't be there. This argument has been hashed several times and Rakash gibberish certainly hasn't been the only gibberish targeted. Titles are kind of OOC so non-English titles are arguably OK (although I'd prefer those were gone too), but item descriptions are IC. The LOOK description is the appropriate place for racial languages. The TAP is not.
<<Like I said, simple tones. Maybe black, red, brown, green, blue, and white. That would be wonderful and keep it from being too garish for those who don't like these things.
<<Like it or not, there are numerous items out there that are styled for a certain race and uses words from that race's language.
And because they're already here already that makes it fine to add more? Does not follow.
Yeah, and they shouldn't be there. This argument has been hashed several times and Rakash gibberish certainly hasn't been the only gibberish targeted. Titles are kind of OOC so non-English titles are arguably OK (although I'd prefer those were gone too), but item descriptions are IC. The LOOK description is the appropriate place for racial languages. The TAP is not.
<<Like I said, simple tones. Maybe black, red, brown, green, blue, and white. That would be wonderful and keep it from being too garish for those who don't like these things.
<<Like it or not, there are numerous items out there that are styled for a certain race and uses words from that race's language.
And because they're already here already that makes it fine to add more? Does not follow.
Actually, I think a red name posted already that racial language nouns is something they want to start moving away from. I wish I had the post now :/
~Leilond
http://tinyurl.com/Leilond-Portrait
http://drzeal.forumotion.com Learn How to PvP!
~Leilond
http://tinyurl.com/Leilond-Portrait
http://drzeal.forumotion.com Learn How to PvP!
And again, I'm not asking for anything new exactly. I'm asking for something already there to be opened up for more use.
Does someone have to tell you what a pinata is for you to know what it is? Maybe once, but now you've seen enough of them to know. The same argument can be made with any of this garish racial-styled items that you find so bad. Yes, you might have to look it up once but that's not really a big deal.
I think the most of us know that a skefne is a spear, a karambit is a two handed sword, and iltesh is a medium edge, etc. Why is that? Because we've seen them and talked about them. Same logic.
Again, I'm not asking for anything that isn't already out there. You'll have to see it sooner or later weather or not you bury your head in the sand and pretend it's not there.
* SPLAT! * You destroy the annoying thing!
Does someone have to tell you what a pinata is for you to know what it is? Maybe once, but now you've seen enough of them to know. The same argument can be made with any of this garish racial-styled items that you find so bad. Yes, you might have to look it up once but that's not really a big deal.
I think the most of us know that a skefne is a spear, a karambit is a two handed sword, and iltesh is a medium edge, etc. Why is that? Because we've seen them and talked about them. Same logic.
Again, I'm not asking for anything that isn't already out there. You'll have to see it sooner or later weather or not you bury your head in the sand and pretend it's not there.
* SPLAT! * You destroy the annoying thing!
<<I think the most of us know that a skefne is a spear, a karambit is a two handed sword, and iltesh is a medium edge, etc. Why is that? Because we've seen them and talked about them. Same logic.
I shouldn't have to. My character is a Barbarian. He's going to see a skefne as a spear with owl feathers. So the tap description really ought to be "a spear with owl feathers" and not "a skefne."
<<Again, I'm not asking for anything that isn't already out there. You'll have to see it sooner or later weather or not you bury your head in the sand and pretend it's not there.
I can just start BUGing those things, I guess. You have no idea how utterly jarring it is to see stuff like that and go "what's a baraknofak?" Even if the answer is on Elanthipedia (although frequently it is not) it's simply not appropriate.
I shouldn't have to. My character is a Barbarian. He's going to see a skefne as a spear with owl feathers. So the tap description really ought to be "a spear with owl feathers" and not "a skefne."
<<Again, I'm not asking for anything that isn't already out there. You'll have to see it sooner or later weather or not you bury your head in the sand and pretend it's not there.
I can just start BUGing those things, I guess. You have no idea how utterly jarring it is to see stuff like that and go "what's a baraknofak?" Even if the answer is on Elanthipedia (although frequently it is not) it's simply not appropriate.
>I think the most of us know that a skefne is a spear, a karambit is a two handed sword, and iltesh is a medium edge, etc. Why is that? Because we've seen them and talked about them. Same logic.
From what I understand a skefne is a type of spear, a karambit a type of two-handed sword, etc, etc. Specific types, not categories. You wouldn't use the word karambit to refer to a claymore, just as you shouldn't expect everyone but you to refer to black as dumbrakashname. Is it a special type of black? We have English words for those too.
The problem with your example is that in real life I can see a pinata and make a judgement on what it is based on what I see without knowing the name. In DR its backwards. If I see you holding a higgerijick blugalfist I have no way to 'see' what it is. I can't tell if its a fishing pole or a talking hat because all I see is the noun. I shouldn't have to stop what I'm doing and look up what it is and then hope next time I see it I remember.
The ONLY way you should be able to get away with referring to a color by a racial name is if the color is outside the normal color spectrum and only your race can see it.
>You have no idea how utterly jarring it is to see stuff like that and go "what's a baraknofak?" Even if the answer is on Elanthipedia (although frequently it is not) it's simply not appropriate.
If you have any you've seen that aren't listed, drop me a message and I'll research it.
Weapons for Sale:
http://www.elanthipedia.org/wiki/User:Caraamon#Wares
Hunta Talna Kortok, built by Gor'Togs, for Gor'Togs
http://www.angelfire.com/rpg2/caraamon/home.html
Combat Balance List:
http://tinyurl.com/DRBalance
If you have any you've seen that aren't listed, drop me a message and I'll research it.
Weapons for Sale:
http://www.elanthipedia.org/wiki/User:Caraamon#Wares
Hunta Talna Kortok, built by Gor'Togs, for Gor'Togs
http://www.angelfire.com/rpg2/caraamon/home.html
Combat Balance List:
http://tinyurl.com/DRBalance
>>You have no idea how utterly jarring it is to see stuff like that and go "what's a baraknofak?"
I have to agree with this. We (the players) should be able to know instantly what other characters are holding/wearing, especially for weapons and items that have critical uses in PVP or RP.
Raesh's solution to this for Kaldar was to introduce items that were Kaldar styled (e.g., coats and skullcaps), and tell us what the Gorbesh names were for them, but give them regular old English taps in game. I thought this worked really well.
-- Player of Eyuve
I have to agree with this. We (the players) should be able to know instantly what other characters are holding/wearing, especially for weapons and items that have critical uses in PVP or RP.
Raesh's solution to this for Kaldar was to introduce items that were Kaldar styled (e.g., coats and skullcaps), and tell us what the Gorbesh names were for them, but give them regular old English taps in game. I thought this worked really well.
-- Player of Eyuve
>He's going to see
And my char is a Rakash who bought the item from a Rakash, he is going to see a skefne and he's going to tell everyone it's a skefne. Why? Because its a Rakash spear, a skefne. Nothing more, nothing less. How you choose to portray your characters mentality should not effect how someone else plays the game. Or even what they are allowed to do within the game.
>answer is on Elanthipedia
I can tell you now I haven't had to look up a single Rakash translated word on Elathipedia. (I have text copies of the books on my hard drive) They have been important to how I play my character and I have made a choice to learn them. Just because you don't, doesn't invalidate their existence to others.
> see a pinata and make a judgement
Yes, but what sort of logic allows the pinata to make the leap into non-Hispanic non-Asian DR? How would you know what one of these are IG? From the logic presented here it should be "a paper mache dragon sculpture" and the candy should just surprise you one day you drop it on the ground because you never knew it had candy inside?
>special kind of color
I dunno, that does seem like a valid argument. "If black is black than let it be black." Perhaps these are more ntural color-dye's. I don't really know. Perhaps all the Rakash color's have a heather to them. Anji?
>have to look it up
However, the argument of having to look something up is really thin at best. There are over a handful of things you interact with every single day that doesn't have an English "name" on it. Why do these not jar you? Because you're used to it.
This isn't about Kaldar or Gorbesh, this is about the Rakash. It has been the standard for releases to contain a smattering of translated words. If they were allowed to be released, one could argue that any translated item DOES have something obvious about it which signifies it as being Rakash-made or made-for-Rakash. Regardless if you can see it or not. Since the distinct differences have been enough to warrant creation of new items, we'll just stretch the imagination a little.
>PVP weapons
Again the weapons are already out there, this suggestion does nothing to that. Only makes it so instead of seeing some forged "a balanced duraka skefne" you might see "a relna duraka skefne" And I honestly don't see how that is changing your fighting style so much? You can see it's a skefne and after this many years I would hope you know what one of those is by now.
* SPLAT! * You destroy the annoying thing!
And my char is a Rakash who bought the item from a Rakash, he is going to see a skefne and he's going to tell everyone it's a skefne. Why? Because its a Rakash spear, a skefne. Nothing more, nothing less. How you choose to portray your characters mentality should not effect how someone else plays the game. Or even what they are allowed to do within the game.
>answer is on Elanthipedia
I can tell you now I haven't had to look up a single Rakash translated word on Elathipedia. (I have text copies of the books on my hard drive) They have been important to how I play my character and I have made a choice to learn them. Just because you don't, doesn't invalidate their existence to others.
> see a pinata and make a judgement
Yes, but what sort of logic allows the pinata to make the leap into non-Hispanic non-Asian DR? How would you know what one of these are IG? From the logic presented here it should be "a paper mache dragon sculpture" and the candy should just surprise you one day you drop it on the ground because you never knew it had candy inside?
>special kind of color
I dunno, that does seem like a valid argument. "If black is black than let it be black." Perhaps these are more ntural color-dye's. I don't really know. Perhaps all the Rakash color's have a heather to them. Anji?
>have to look it up
However, the argument of having to look something up is really thin at best. There are over a handful of things you interact with every single day that doesn't have an English "name" on it. Why do these not jar you? Because you're used to it.
This isn't about Kaldar or Gorbesh, this is about the Rakash. It has been the standard for releases to contain a smattering of translated words. If they were allowed to be released, one could argue that any translated item DOES have something obvious about it which signifies it as being Rakash-made or made-for-Rakash. Regardless if you can see it or not. Since the distinct differences have been enough to warrant creation of new items, we'll just stretch the imagination a little.
>PVP weapons
Again the weapons are already out there, this suggestion does nothing to that. Only makes it so instead of seeing some forged "a balanced duraka skefne" you might see "a relna duraka skefne" And I honestly don't see how that is changing your fighting style so much? You can see it's a skefne and after this many years I would hope you know what one of those is by now.
* SPLAT! * You destroy the annoying thing!
For refence, the colors currently released are:
Most of them are here: http://elanthipedia.org/w/index.php/Visfarej_Cehs
And to clarify, this is all I would expect any Rakash dyer to do. With maybe the inclusion of red to the list.
* SPLAT! * You destroy the annoying thing!
| Valta | White |
| Vruna | Brown |
| Relna | Black |
| Zila | Blue |
| Zala | Green |
| Forfra | Purple |
Most of them are here: http://elanthipedia.org/w/index.php/Visfarej_Cehs
And to clarify, this is all I would expect any Rakash dyer to do. With maybe the inclusion of red to the list.
* SPLAT! * You destroy the annoying thing!
This conversation just made me think of a really cute bear, not quite sure why but I thought I'd share: http://tinyurl.com/7369fvj
~Leilond
http://tinyurl.com/Leilond-Portrait
http://drzeal.forumotion.com Learn How to PvP!
~Leilond
http://tinyurl.com/Leilond-Portrait
http://drzeal.forumotion.com Learn How to PvP!
That is a pretty cute bear. Thanks for sharing.
And yeah, not really a conversation.... Somewhat of a debate, more like a collection of opinionated statements.
I really do understand where you folks are coming from, I just don't agree at all. More to the fact, I don't think this would be game-changing for anyone. Just something for Rakash players to use to further immerse themselves in their own culture, or to better represent it in their own fashion. You don't have to use it or like it, but that doesn't mean that there are not a group of people who would use it and enjoy it.
Honestly, I had to look up a few words in my history of DR. Some of them (paludamentum, pugio) are roman and others (khandur, telo, etc.) are just made up. It has never once impacted either my play style or my play ability.
* SPLAT! * You destroy the annoying thing!
And yeah, not really a conversation.... Somewhat of a debate, more like a collection of opinionated statements.
I really do understand where you folks are coming from, I just don't agree at all. More to the fact, I don't think this would be game-changing for anyone. Just something for Rakash players to use to further immerse themselves in their own culture, or to better represent it in their own fashion. You don't have to use it or like it, but that doesn't mean that there are not a group of people who would use it and enjoy it.
Honestly, I had to look up a few words in my history of DR. Some of them (paludamentum, pugio) are roman and others (khandur, telo, etc.) are just made up. It has never once impacted either my play style or my play ability.
* SPLAT! * You destroy the annoying thing!
There are better ways to immerse yourself(and others) in Rakash culture than having generic colors translations forced upon everyone. Just because it's in a shop doesn't mean it was/is a good idea. I don't know about you, but if I don't know what a particular hue of color is called...I call it the generic color closest to it *in my own language*.
Just imagine the conversation...
Joe, "What is that thing you're wearing?"
You, "It's a black sack."
Joe, "Oh, I didn't see that it was black..."
You, "gibbrakash is black!"
Joe, "Oh..."
Joe should be able to see that it's a hue of black. If you want to explain it's the black of the darkest night of the year, then fine, but don't have some foreign language do that for you. That isn't really immersion, that's laziness because the above conversation probably wouldn't happen, they'd just ignore whatever you're wearing and let it fall into the "racial gibberish item, I don't care" category. If you wear a wall of racial stuff, most people aren't going to go through and translate word for word what exactly it is you're wearing, so all the work you put into your outfit is lost except upon the others who are just like you who have researched it and actually remember it. There's nothing wrong with learning all the of rakash language, of course, but assuming the rest of us want to do it is.
Player of: Lyathe and Saslisena
Just imagine the conversation...
Joe, "What is that thing you're wearing?"
You, "It's a black sack."
Joe, "Oh, I didn't see that it was black..."
You, "gibbrakash is black!"
Joe, "Oh..."
Joe should be able to see that it's a hue of black. If you want to explain it's the black of the darkest night of the year, then fine, but don't have some foreign language do that for you. That isn't really immersion, that's laziness because the above conversation probably wouldn't happen, they'd just ignore whatever you're wearing and let it fall into the "racial gibberish item, I don't care" category. If you wear a wall of racial stuff, most people aren't going to go through and translate word for word what exactly it is you're wearing, so all the work you put into your outfit is lost except upon the others who are just like you who have researched it and actually remember it. There's nothing wrong with learning all the of rakash language, of course, but assuming the rest of us want to do it is.
Player of: Lyathe and Saslisena
>>in a shop, is/was good idea
I think the shops are fantastic, actually I had e-mailed GM-Anji myself (others might have as well) and asked for more Rakash translated items (like backpacks and shields) and they are here. I am super excited about this. Sorry you're not?
>>forced upon everyone
That would be a stretch to say that it would be forced on everyone. It would be optional for everyone, but not at all forced in any way. You have the choice to care about it or not.
>>You and Joe
That same conversation can happen about a million different items in this game. I fail to see how it holds any weight to re-hash it here on this subject. That seems to be a general problem that you or those *like you* have with the game, not everyone.
>>immersion
I am operating under the impression that these are not just generic translations and that these colors are of a hue or tone that qualifies them to be what they are instead of generic [color]. Because you see it as lazy does not take away the fact that it helps facilitate Rakash players into feeling like they are a better representation of their race.
>>all rakash language
You mean by asking you to see a color or a weapon type? I can understand if I asked for complete translations of every Rakash item, however that's not at all what I'm asking for. What I am asking for is a series of Rakash adjectives that Rakash players can use to decorate their items.
~
This whole thing seems to be hinging on allot of personal opinion. While this is good, it doesn't really make it valid at all. Again, I don't see this as any sort of game-changer. No matter what spin you want to put on it. It is a simple request that many Rakash players might or might not use. Because you don't like it doesn't mean it shouldn't be an option for those who would really enjoy it.
* SPLAT! * You destroy the annoying thing!
I think the shops are fantastic, actually I had e-mailed GM-Anji myself (others might have as well) and asked for more Rakash translated items (like backpacks and shields) and they are here. I am super excited about this. Sorry you're not?
>>forced upon everyone
That would be a stretch to say that it would be forced on everyone. It would be optional for everyone, but not at all forced in any way. You have the choice to care about it or not.
>>You and Joe
That same conversation can happen about a million different items in this game. I fail to see how it holds any weight to re-hash it here on this subject. That seems to be a general problem that you or those *like you* have with the game, not everyone.
>>immersion
I am operating under the impression that these are not just generic translations and that these colors are of a hue or tone that qualifies them to be what they are instead of generic [color]. Because you see it as lazy does not take away the fact that it helps facilitate Rakash players into feeling like they are a better representation of their race.
>>all rakash language
You mean by asking you to see a color or a weapon type? I can understand if I asked for complete translations of every Rakash item, however that's not at all what I'm asking for. What I am asking for is a series of Rakash adjectives that Rakash players can use to decorate their items.
~
This whole thing seems to be hinging on allot of personal opinion. While this is good, it doesn't really make it valid at all. Again, I don't see this as any sort of game-changer. No matter what spin you want to put on it. It is a simple request that many Rakash players might or might not use. Because you don't like it doesn't mean it shouldn't be an option for those who would really enjoy it.
* SPLAT! * You destroy the annoying thing!
I'm not a fan of oddly named things just for the sake of making them oddly named in order to function as "racial" weapons. I'm glad my Gnomish long blade is called that and not a glorbenshooble or whatever the hell Gnomes like calling things.
Like others, I feel that naming them oddly for the sake of being racial weapons just causes confusion as to what the person is holding/using/etc. As for the pinata argument, as players we know what a pinata is and there isn't some more-widely accepted term like "breakable hanging candy box" that would better convey to the players what is going on.
In the end, I prefer the game conveying messaging to players. If I'm in Mexico, I don't suddenly start noticing "vestidos de azul" everywhere: I still go "oh, blue dresses!"
I'd rather see translation issues happen on an IC level. For example, I'm not against a Rakash dye shop's sign listing all the colors in Zala, Frofra, and so on. But once you order it, it should show up as a green X, a purple Y, and so on.
"You always have to be a know-it-all. And you don't. Know. It. All." - GERSTEINJ2
Like others, I feel that naming them oddly for the sake of being racial weapons just causes confusion as to what the person is holding/using/etc. As for the pinata argument, as players we know what a pinata is and there isn't some more-widely accepted term like "breakable hanging candy box" that would better convey to the players what is going on.
In the end, I prefer the game conveying messaging to players. If I'm in Mexico, I don't suddenly start noticing "vestidos de azul" everywhere: I still go "oh, blue dresses!"
I'd rather see translation issues happen on an IC level. For example, I'm not against a Rakash dye shop's sign listing all the colors in Zala, Frofra, and so on. But once you order it, it should show up as a green X, a purple Y, and so on.
"You always have to be a know-it-all. And you don't. Know. It. All." - GERSTEINJ2
>>Leej82: We want less gibberish running around, not more. It makes absolutely no sense for something to show up as a fluasji ruopel when it's actually just a blue hat. It's a blue hat. That's what my character would see it as.
It's rather jarring to have to ask "What is an ilglaiks skefne?" when your character is looking at a spear. My character doesn't speak Rakash, yet she somehow knows that the spear you're holding is called an "ilglaiks skefne," but then she has to ask what an "ilglaiks skefne" is?
For racial items, I would rather see the tap in Common. The look can be used to elaborate on the racial themes.
>>Hexedbythenet: Does someone have to tell you what a pinata is for you to know what it is?
If you had never heard of a piñata, and you were looking at one for the first time, you wouldn't automatically know that it was called a "piñata."
>>Hexedbythenet: I think the most of us know that a skefne is a spear, a karambit is a two handed sword, and iltesh is a medium edge, etc. Why is that? Because we've seen them and talked about them. Same logic.
No, most characters don't know that. They don't speak Rakash, so they don't see your spear and say, "Oh, that's a skefne." If their players are curious, they may look up the meaning of "skefne" on Elanthipedia, but as I said before, when my character is looking at you, I shouldn't have to consult Elanthipedia for my character to recognize that you are holding some kind of spear.
>>Hexedbythenet: And my char is a Rakash who bought the item from a Rakash, he is going to see a skefne and he's going to tell everyone it's a skefne.
That's fine, but that doesn't explain why the tap of a weapon that everyone would recognize as some type of spear should be the Rakash word for spear.
Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall rank!
It's rather jarring to have to ask "What is an ilglaiks skefne?" when your character is looking at a spear. My character doesn't speak Rakash, yet she somehow knows that the spear you're holding is called an "ilglaiks skefne," but then she has to ask what an "ilglaiks skefne" is?
For racial items, I would rather see the tap in Common. The look can be used to elaborate on the racial themes.
>>Hexedbythenet: Does someone have to tell you what a pinata is for you to know what it is?
If you had never heard of a piñata, and you were looking at one for the first time, you wouldn't automatically know that it was called a "piñata."
>>Hexedbythenet: I think the most of us know that a skefne is a spear, a karambit is a two handed sword, and iltesh is a medium edge, etc. Why is that? Because we've seen them and talked about them. Same logic.
No, most characters don't know that. They don't speak Rakash, so they don't see your spear and say, "Oh, that's a skefne." If their players are curious, they may look up the meaning of "skefne" on Elanthipedia, but as I said before, when my character is looking at you, I shouldn't have to consult Elanthipedia for my character to recognize that you are holding some kind of spear.
>>Hexedbythenet: And my char is a Rakash who bought the item from a Rakash, he is going to see a skefne and he's going to tell everyone it's a skefne.
That's fine, but that doesn't explain why the tap of a weapon that everyone would recognize as some type of spear should be the Rakash word for spear.
Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall rank!
<<No, most characters don't know that. They don't speak Rakash, so they don't see your spear and say, "Oh, that's a skefne." If their players are curious, they may look up the meaning of "skefne" on Elanthipedia, but as I said before, when my character is looking at you, I shouldn't have to consult Elanthipedia for my character to recognize that you are holding some kind of spear.
Exactly. The appropriate place for racial languages on items is in the LOOK description.
Alexii shows you his copperwood-shafted spear with dangling hawk feathers. Rough hewn with a dark leather wrapping, several hawk feathers dangle from the copperwood shaft. The distinct spade shape of the spear point leads you to believe this is a traditional skefne.
If the character wouldn't know what a traditional skefne was, they're free to ignore that detail. But they know it's a spear...because it's obviously a spear, even if it isn't necessarily obviously a traditional skefne.
Exactly. The appropriate place for racial languages on items is in the LOOK description.
Alexii shows you his copperwood-shafted spear with dangling hawk feathers. Rough hewn with a dark leather wrapping, several hawk feathers dangle from the copperwood shaft. The distinct spade shape of the spear point leads you to believe this is a traditional skefne.
If the character wouldn't know what a traditional skefne was, they're free to ignore that detail. But they know it's a spear...because it's obviously a spear, even if it isn't necessarily obviously a traditional skefne.
Personally you want to do more for whatever racial, cultural group, research it, and bring it up in RP.
So your holding a glossy black spear.
Some dude "Oh nice spear"
Racy person "It's a hehehsuidhdrh kejfbpo."
Some dude "Say what."
Race person "That's what my people call it."
Some dude "Oh really, I didn't catch that."
Racy dude "It's a hehehsuidhdrh kejfbpo."
Some dude nods "That so?"
Racy dude "Exactly."
Some dude walks away.
Some other racy dude comes up.
Racy dude "Hello, lejehf."
Other racy dude "And you lejehf."
Racy dude taps his glossy black spear.
Other racy dude "Nice hehehsuidhdrh kejfbpo."
Racy dude nods.
Other racy dude drools.
THE END.
_____________________________________
Victory Over Lyras, on the 397th year and 156 days since the Victory of Lanival the Redeemer.
So your holding a glossy black spear.
Some dude "Oh nice spear"
Racy person "It's a hehehsuidhdrh kejfbpo."
Some dude "Say what."
Race person "That's what my people call it."
Some dude "Oh really, I didn't catch that."
Racy dude "It's a hehehsuidhdrh kejfbpo."
Some dude nods "That so?"
Racy dude "Exactly."
Some dude walks away.
Some other racy dude comes up.
Racy dude "Hello, lejehf."
Other racy dude "And you lejehf."
Racy dude taps his glossy black spear.
Other racy dude "Nice hehehsuidhdrh kejfbpo."
Racy dude nods.
Other racy dude drools.
THE END.
_____________________________________
Victory Over Lyras, on the 397th year and 156 days since the Victory of Lanival the Redeemer.
Again, if a spear is a spear than let it be a spear. But if a skefne is not really a spear, than it should be a skefne. The same argument can be made for any "translated" item in this game.
I could understand if the colors are just basic translations, but if they are indeed of a tone or hue that makes them not-quite-that-color than they should be represented in their translated name and not a generic color.
If you choose to RP that your character has never seen a skefne in the years since Rakash and Prydaen have been Eastern-bound, and wouldn't have the foggiest idea what one is... that is your choice. Same could be said about any racial items.
Hopefully Anji or another of Team Rakash can come in and explain these colors, and comment on if they are any different from normal colors. If so, I see no reason at all not to include them in some sort of dye shop.
In the end we're talking about allowing people to place a translated adjective on their items, nothing game changing at all. If your character doesn't know what it is, that's fine. If you're not a Rakash, it's understandable. If you have to ask what it is, so what?
There seems to be this idea that you are supposed to know what everything is, where it's from, and all that junk just by someone holding said item in their hand. That's whack. If I'm holding an orange piece of fruit, whats to make you think its an orange or a tangerine? There is a difference. How would you represent that difference if it wasn't named that way?
There are some RL abilites that do not transfer into DR.
* SPLAT! * You destroy the annoying thing!
I could understand if the colors are just basic translations, but if they are indeed of a tone or hue that makes them not-quite-that-color than they should be represented in their translated name and not a generic color.
If you choose to RP that your character has never seen a skefne in the years since Rakash and Prydaen have been Eastern-bound, and wouldn't have the foggiest idea what one is... that is your choice. Same could be said about any racial items.
Hopefully Anji or another of Team Rakash can come in and explain these colors, and comment on if they are any different from normal colors. If so, I see no reason at all not to include them in some sort of dye shop.
In the end we're talking about allowing people to place a translated adjective on their items, nothing game changing at all. If your character doesn't know what it is, that's fine. If you're not a Rakash, it's understandable. If you have to ask what it is, so what?
There seems to be this idea that you are supposed to know what everything is, where it's from, and all that junk just by someone holding said item in their hand. That's whack. If I'm holding an orange piece of fruit, whats to make you think its an orange or a tangerine? There is a difference. How would you represent that difference if it wasn't named that way?
There are some RL abilites that do not transfer into DR.
* SPLAT! * You destroy the annoying thing!
>>Again, if a spear is a spear than let it be a spear. But if a skefne is not really a spear, than it should be a skefne. The same argument can be made for any "translated" item in this game.
This is how I see it, too. The only expansion I'd make is that if it's an easily described X, then just make that the tap. In other words, if a skefne is a two-pronged spear, just say two-pronged spear. But if it's that different of a thing, then give it its own name (like a riste - because it's not like most/many/almost-all-lets-be-honest-here players know what a maquahuitl is).
"You always have to be a know-it-all. And you don't. Know. It. All." - GERSTEINJ2
This is how I see it, too. The only expansion I'd make is that if it's an easily described X, then just make that the tap. In other words, if a skefne is a two-pronged spear, just say two-pronged spear. But if it's that different of a thing, then give it its own name (like a riste - because it's not like most/many/almost-all-lets-be-honest-here players know what a maquahuitl is).
"You always have to be a know-it-all. And you don't. Know. It. All." - GERSTEINJ2
>>maquahuitl
I have a bad habit of getting trapped in documentaries. They made this weapon allot better in DR than its real-world counterpart. Along those same lines, what would you say about the tepoztopilli? Is it just a spear? Or is it a halberd?
Regardless if its represented in the tap or the look of an item or not at all, there is something different about these items that qualifies them as being what they are instead of being named by their basic construction. Just like an iltesh, a karambit, a hhr'ata, etc.
* SPLAT! * You destroy the annoying thing!
I have a bad habit of getting trapped in documentaries. They made this weapon allot better in DR than its real-world counterpart. Along those same lines, what would you say about the tepoztopilli? Is it just a spear? Or is it a halberd?
Regardless if its represented in the tap or the look of an item or not at all, there is something different about these items that qualifies them as being what they are instead of being named by their basic construction. Just like an iltesh, a karambit, a hhr'ata, etc.
* SPLAT! * You destroy the annoying thing!
I agree with pretty much everything TEVESHSZAT just said.
~Leilond
http://tinyurl.com/Leilond-Portrait
http://drzeal.forumotion.com Learn How to PvP!
~Leilond
http://tinyurl.com/Leilond-Portrait
http://drzeal.forumotion.com Learn How to PvP!
<<This is how I see it, too. The only expansion I'd make is that if it's an easily described X, then just make that the tap. In other words, if a skefne is a two-pronged spear, just say two-pronged spear. But if it's that different of a thing, then give it its own name (like a riste - because it's not like most/many/almost-all-lets-be-honest-here players know what a maquahuitl is).
Exactly this. I'm not even a huge fan of using weapon names like cinquedea (which I believe is still being used incorrectly as a heavy edged template), but I get the reasoning vis-a-vis weapons templates.
Exactly this. I'm not even a huge fan of using weapon names like cinquedea (which I believe is still being used incorrectly as a heavy edged template), but I get the reasoning vis-a-vis weapons templates.
Simply put, Rakash (currently) don't have any uber-special fabrics or stat-bonusing weapons. What we have is our generic goods which are styled in such a way that they are deserving of their translated-names. Weather this difference is described in the short or long description of the item in question, it is implied regardless.
There is a definite leap of imagination that is needed in dealing with some of the items and places in this game. You are expected to "fill in the gaps" on many things. I really fail to see how this is a big deal or even anything more than a minor annoyance for some players.
* SPLAT! * You destroy the annoying thing!
There is a definite leap of imagination that is needed in dealing with some of the items and places in this game. You are expected to "fill in the gaps" on many things. I really fail to see how this is a big deal or even anything more than a minor annoyance for some players.
* SPLAT! * You destroy the annoying thing!
<<Simply put, Rakash (currently) don't have any uber-special fabrics or stat-bonusing weapons. What we have is our generic goods which are styled in such a way that they are deserving of their translated-names. Weather this difference is described in the short or long description of the item in question, it is implied regardless.
I don't agree. It's unlikely that the items currently in game will be changed any time soon, but adding more is only going to exacerbate the issue and create more work for the GameMaster who eventually gets charged with cleaning up the mess.
I don't agree. It's unlikely that the items currently in game will be changed any time soon, but adding more is only going to exacerbate the issue and create more work for the GameMaster who eventually gets charged with cleaning up the mess.
>>Simply put, Rakash (currently) don't have any uber-special fabrics or stat-bonusing weapons. What we have is our generic goods which are styled in such a way that they are deserving of their translated-names.
I don't think not having one of those things automatically requires the other to create some kind of balance. They're two separate things.
If there was a sword auctioned at the next guildfest that was bonused for Rakash, would that mean you wouldn't want any racially named things? I don't see how that would work.
"You always have to be a know-it-all. And you don't. Know. It. All." - GERSTEINJ2
I don't think not having one of those things automatically requires the other to create some kind of balance. They're two separate things.
If there was a sword auctioned at the next guildfest that was bonused for Rakash, would that mean you wouldn't want any racially named things? I don't see how that would work.
"You always have to be a know-it-all. And you don't. Know. It. All." - GERSTEINJ2
>>Hexedbythenet: If you choose to RP that your character has never seen a skefne in the years since Rakash and Prydaen have been Eastern-bound, and wouldn't have the foggiest idea what one is... that is your choice.
Even if there is something unique about the design of a "skefne" that separates it from all other spears, it would be recognizable as some type of spear to anyone who sees it. If not, then it's no longer a spear but something else entirely.
>>Hexedbythenet: I could understand if the colors are just basic translations, but if they are indeed of a tone or hue that makes them not-quite-that-color than they should be represented in their translated name and not a generic color.
Your original suggestion was for "Rakash translated color options" of the "basic color palette." There is no good reason to do that. There are better ways to develop Rakash-themed items than simply translating basic items into Rakash.
However, what I said about spears applies to colors as well. Even if there were a unique shade of blue for which the Rakash alone had a special word, it would still be recognizable as a shade of blue to everyone with normal vision.
>>Hexedbythenet: There seems to be this idea that you are supposed to know what everything is, where it's from, and all that junk just by someone holding said item in their hand. That's whack. If I'm holding an orange piece of fruit, whats to make you think its an orange or a tangerine? There is a difference. How would you represent that difference if it wasn't named that way?
The trouble with using made-up racial words in item taps is that in an all-text game, there is no way for people to perceive even the general nature of an item. Without looking it up in Elanthipedia, I have no way of knowing whether the "skefne" that your character is holding is a spear or a piece of fruit. That makes no sense.
There may be a case for using made-up racial names for items that exist only in Elanthia, but such items are few and far between. The vast majority of items are based on things that exist in real life or fantasy; for those items, it is far better to describe them in English.
Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall rank!
Even if there is something unique about the design of a "skefne" that separates it from all other spears, it would be recognizable as some type of spear to anyone who sees it. If not, then it's no longer a spear but something else entirely.
>>Hexedbythenet: I could understand if the colors are just basic translations, but if they are indeed of a tone or hue that makes them not-quite-that-color than they should be represented in their translated name and not a generic color.
Your original suggestion was for "Rakash translated color options" of the "basic color palette." There is no good reason to do that. There are better ways to develop Rakash-themed items than simply translating basic items into Rakash.
However, what I said about spears applies to colors as well. Even if there were a unique shade of blue for which the Rakash alone had a special word, it would still be recognizable as a shade of blue to everyone with normal vision.
>>Hexedbythenet: There seems to be this idea that you are supposed to know what everything is, where it's from, and all that junk just by someone holding said item in their hand. That's whack. If I'm holding an orange piece of fruit, whats to make you think its an orange or a tangerine? There is a difference. How would you represent that difference if it wasn't named that way?
The trouble with using made-up racial words in item taps is that in an all-text game, there is no way for people to perceive even the general nature of an item. Without looking it up in Elanthipedia, I have no way of knowing whether the "skefne" that your character is holding is a spear or a piece of fruit. That makes no sense.
There may be a case for using made-up racial names for items that exist only in Elanthia, but such items are few and far between. The vast majority of items are based on things that exist in real life or fantasy; for those items, it is far better to describe them in English.
Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall rank!
>>TEVESHSZAT
That wasn't my point when I used that as an example. What I was trying to show was that these races have recieved their development in that manner and that the Rakash have always received theirs in this manner. It is the "standard" for this race and as a Rakash player for years I enjoy it. I personally would love to see more of it and have it continue in this manner.
>>ISHARON
I understand your POV on this ISHARON, I just really don't agree at all. I think I clearly stated that there are "leaps of imagination" that we take when we jump into this fantasy game. I have no problem making these and really have no desire mire myself down with what I consider to be minute details. IE: "What is that you are holding?" I've always figured if someone in this game wanted you know exactly what they were doing badly enough it would be obvious and/or they would tell you.
I really don't have any desire to make this game any more "real" than it is. I like the fantasy and what I consider to be the "immersion" into a culture that is available. I would like more too and think it would be fun. While I respect your views on the subject I really don't agree with anything any of you have stated. While the facts presented are true, the opinion you hold based on them really doesn't jive with what I've enjoyed about playing.
* SPLAT! * You destroy the annoying thing!
That wasn't my point when I used that as an example. What I was trying to show was that these races have recieved their development in that manner and that the Rakash have always received theirs in this manner. It is the "standard" for this race and as a Rakash player for years I enjoy it. I personally would love to see more of it and have it continue in this manner.
>>ISHARON
I understand your POV on this ISHARON, I just really don't agree at all. I think I clearly stated that there are "leaps of imagination" that we take when we jump into this fantasy game. I have no problem making these and really have no desire mire myself down with what I consider to be minute details. IE: "What is that you are holding?" I've always figured if someone in this game wanted you know exactly what they were doing badly enough it would be obvious and/or they would tell you.
I really don't have any desire to make this game any more "real" than it is. I like the fantasy and what I consider to be the "immersion" into a culture that is available. I would like more too and think it would be fun. While I respect your views on the subject I really don't agree with anything any of you have stated. While the facts presented are true, the opinion you hold based on them really doesn't jive with what I've enjoyed about playing.
* SPLAT! * You destroy the annoying thing!
For me, it's just really jarring to witness conversations where one character is asking another about something when they should be able to see what it is.
Rakash pulls out a skefne.
Other Person asks, "What's a skefne?"
Rakash says, "It's a type of spear."
In real life, this conversation would be opposite. You'd see the Rakash pull out a type of spear, notice it looked different/interesting, and ask, "What type of spear is that?" To which the answer would be, "A skefne."
So, it's jarring to the IC environment for it to be backwards.
Plus having so many options available means that someone could be decked out in Rakash gear that you'd have to look up... and that just gets a little tiring.
Don't get me wrong, I love flavor and culture and I want you to be able to immerse yourself in that. But a little consideration for the IC environment, and for the amount of lookup you're asking of other people, would also be nice.
-- Player of Eyuve
Rakash pulls out a skefne.
Other Person asks, "What's a skefne?"
Rakash says, "It's a type of spear."
In real life, this conversation would be opposite. You'd see the Rakash pull out a type of spear, notice it looked different/interesting, and ask, "What type of spear is that?" To which the answer would be, "A skefne."
So, it's jarring to the IC environment for it to be backwards.
Plus having so many options available means that someone could be decked out in Rakash gear that you'd have to look up... and that just gets a little tiring.
Don't get me wrong, I love flavor and culture and I want you to be able to immerse yourself in that. But a little consideration for the IC environment, and for the amount of lookup you're asking of other people, would also be nice.
-- Player of Eyuve
The other posters (who I agree with) want to be able to play the game without having to look up the Rakash -> Common conversion for things that our characters would recognize as some kind of spear, a black sack, and a two-handed sword. You want racially-themed items. It seems like a perfectly reasonable compromise to make a tap description that identifies the item as a spear and a longer description that says it's a skefne.
