Re: Ranger Bonus 2.0 on 06/20/2010 10:02 AM CDT
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>bug

You open your mouth and roar with everything you've got! "THERE'S A CHROSS CHARACTER HERE IN GAME"A few soft sounds reminiscent of a baby robin's first song twitter sweetly from within you.

~Hunter Hanryu
http://drplat.com/CombatEquipmentCompendium.xls
http://tinyurl.com/HanryuTanning
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Re: Ranger Bonus 2.0 on 06/20/2010 10:15 AM CDT
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>bug


You take in a deep breath to howl, and let loose with a mighty... Moo?! 'GOOFY CROSS CHARACTER'The sounds'DOUBLE SPACE HERE'that erupt from within you sound startlingly like the loud bleating of a young heifer giving birth to her first calf.


~Hunter Hanryu
http://drplat.com/CombatEquipmentCompendium.xls
http://tinyurl.com/HanryuTanning
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Re: Ranger Bonus 2.0 on 06/20/2010 10:17 AM CDT
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>If by good you mean good and not maximum, then we just need to look at the areas in question.

This would be a lot easier to check if we had more messages for how bonus positive an area is.

Might be some confusion on my part on what the messaging means, but I find myself dropping like a stone to the low tiers of bonus positive messages in those areas, based on the messaging I passed through getting my bonus back:

You open your mouth and throw back your head, howling with a tentative but fairly resonant tone that wavers only slightly.

You howl like a wolf calling the pack!

Seems a little low for areas that are supposed to be wild.

-pete
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Re: Ranger Bonus 2.0 on 06/20/2010 11:25 AM CDT
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Okay so.. I don't think everyone is understanding quite what 'Drift Fast and Slow each have their advantages' means for us...

It means we don't think either is better or worse than the other.

If you drift slowly, then if you tank your bonus it will take forever to come back. If you drift quickly it will be easy to recover but easy to lose.

And you're not going to get a Thief system where you can drift slow one way and fast the other. Ranger bonus is meant to act symmetrically.

Also, keep in mind you were almost never at your 'maximum' bonus under ye olde system. You're not supposed to consistently be at your 'maximum' bonus under this one either. You can just 'see' the difference better which is leading to the posts on it.

-Z
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Re: Ranger Bonus 2.0 on 06/20/2010 12:25 PM CDT
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Bonus high to low

0 seconds 0 Minutes
You inhale deeply, a resounding howl breaking forth from within you, resonating strongly into the distance as if to announce your mastery of the wilds!

360 seconds 6 Minutes
You howl strongly, like that of a wolf calling its kin to assemble for a hunt. The sound echoes commandingly through the area.

560 seconds 9.33
You inhale and howl strongly, the cacophonous sounds reverberating around you.

760 seconds 12.66 Minutes
You howl like a wolf calling the pack!

950 seconds 15.83 minutes
You open your mouth and throw back your head, howling with a tentative but fairly resonant tone that wavers only slightly.

1150 seconds 19.16 Minutes
You take in a deep breath air and howl softly.

1350 seconds 22.5 Minutes
You howl meekly, unsure of yourself.

1650 seconds 27.6 Minutes
You take in a deep breath to howl, but it comes out as a whimper, like a lost wolf looking for his pack.

1840 seconds 30.6 Minutes
You howl quietly to yourself, echoing a soft, desolate sound that doesn't sound quite right.

2140 seconds 35.6 Minutes
You take in a deep breath to howl, but it comes out as a whimper, like a lost wolf looking for his pack.

2240 seconds 37.3 Minutes
You take in a deep breath to howl loudly, but instead cough and choke on the air around you.

2540 seconds 42.3 Minutes
You open your mouth to howl, but you merely sigh like the softest wind through the trees. Sadly, not even a leaf flutters with your "mighty" breath.

2930 seconds 48.83 Minutes
You open your mouth and roar with everything you've got!  A few soft sounds reminiscent of a baby robin's first song twitter sweetly from within you.

3330 seconds 55.5 Minutes
You give forth a mighty... yelp, which sounds more like a domesticated puppy than anything else.

3920 seconds 65.3 Minutes
You open your mouth to howl, but it sounds more like a dying chicken than anything else.

4600 seconds 76.6 Minutes
You take in a deep breath to howl, and let loose with a mighty... Moo?!  The sounds that erupt from within you sound startlingly like the loud bleating of a young heifer giving birth to her first calf.

Might be off a few minutes or seconds who knows... yes I will test the other way... but mentally i'm bored!!!

The Dragon priest hisses, "We'd have won, too, if it weren't for thossse meddling kidsss."
>
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Re: Ranger Bonus 2.0 on 06/20/2010 12:25 PM CDT
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Can we please remove the cow and chicken messaging in favor of something else, please? Bad enough we get to suck muck at anything other than out in the open, semi blind, magic hampered combat, do we need to add insult to weakness as well?

Cows are fat and passive, chickens are stupid and cowardly as animal symbols, consider that, as a Thief would you want to be called names or as a Barb or Mage etc? Rangers do not like it either, as suggested not all of us want to emulate wolves, is there any chance other animals such as felines or such could be considered, please?


Meowing used to work as well check bonus, it is still in the old system, I happen to like the messaging better than the wolfish one for my character.

>meow
You meow deeply, like a large mountain cat.


-Armifer says consequences are how we honor evil roleplaying.
-Abasha says, "Personally, I love supporting evil characters, but not if they can't take their lumps too.
-Quarel says, "Not me I hit you because I like to hit."
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Re: Ranger Bonus 2.0 on 06/20/2010 12:46 PM CDT
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The intent is in fact that when your bonus is bad the system makes some fun of you. While only a roleplaying deterrent, the goal is to make you not want to be at low bonus.

To avoid embarrassment, we suggest not checking your bonus near other people if it's poor.

-Z
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Re: Ranger Bonus 2.0 on 06/20/2010 01:00 PM CDT
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I can live with it as it is, but I think I am not alone in saying that I would rather deal with taking longer to get bonus back if it means it stays high longer. In the neighborhood of twice as long, I think, though I could be happy with even longer.
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Re: Ranger Bonus 2.0 on 06/20/2010 01:22 PM CDT
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Any chance that stats or circle is going to have any effect on this, it seems unfair for a Ranger who is out of the character manager to function exactly the same as a Ranger who is near capped or halfway there or whatever, please?

Okay, so basically I guess I was asking that the mechanics support my choices as a player to opt to play a social, generally event oriented Ranger character, this is neither fair nor realistic, it is like playing a corrupt Paladin, or a redeemed Necromancer, or an Empath who wants to be violent, yes it is very interesting to do something different but expecting it to be easy to go against the grain, is just deluding yourself.

-Armifer says consequences are how we honor evil roleplaying.
-Abasha says, "Personally, I love supporting evil characters, but not if they can't take their lumps too.
-Quarel says, "Not me I hit you because I like to hit."
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Re: Ranger Bonus 2.0 on 06/20/2010 01:29 PM CDT
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Regaining my bonus.

0 second
You take in a deep breath to howl, and let loose with a mighty... Moo?!  The sounds that erupt from within you sound startlingly like the loud bleating of a young heifer giving birth to her first calf.

120 seconds
You open your mouth to howl, but it sounds more like a dying chicken than anything else.

310 seconds
You give forth a mighty... yelp, which sounds more like a domesticated puppy than anything else.

410 seconds
You open your mouth and roar with everything you've got!  A few soft sounds reminiscent of a baby robin's first song twitter sweetly from within you.

610 seconds
You open your mouth to howl, but you merely sigh like the softest wind through the trees. Sadly, not even a leaf flutters with your "mighty" breath.

810 seconds
You take in a deep breath to howl loudly, but instead cough and choke on the air around you.

1100 seconds
You take in a deep breath to howl, but it comes out as a whimper, like a lost wolf looking for his pack.

1200 seconds
You howl quietly to yourself, echoing a soft, desolate sound that doesn't sound quite right.

1400 seconds
You take in a deep breath to howl, but it comes out as a whimper, like a lost wolf looking for his pack.

1600 seconds
You howl meekly, unsure of yourself.

1800 seconds
You take in a deep breath air and howl softly.

2090 seconds
You open your mouth and throw back your head, howling with a tentative but fairly resonant tone that wavers only slightly.

2490 seconds
You howl like a wolf calling the pack!

2880 seconds
You inhale and howl strongly, the cacophonous sounds reverberating around you.

3380 seconds
You howl strongly, like that of a wolf calling its kin to assemble for a hunt. The sound echoes commandingly through the area.

3970 seconds 66.1 Minutes
You inhale deeply, a resounding howl breaking forth from within you, resonating strongly into the distance as if to announce your mastery of the wilds!


I think the.. getting to Mooing is what skewed the data a bit since I didn't stay much longer than getting the message in town to see how far i'd go below Mooing. But roughly that is where things seem to be. I'm 150th if that matters or not.

The Dragon priest hisses, "We'd have won, too, if it weren't for thossse meddling kidsss."
>
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Re: Ranger Bonus 2.0 on 06/20/2010 01:32 PM CDT
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Also thanks you very much again, GM Zeyurn for coding this, not everyone will like it, some will hate it, some will love it, some will be in between, pretty much like anything else. I think overall the feedback has been positive though, for the most part. Thank you GM Sithix to for any part you may have worked on, or may work on in the future. Gratitude also for making the ability to check your bonus more coherent.

Thank you also to Prombard and Aleyden for their tests with the new degrees of bonus, they are helpful.


-Armifer says consequences are how we honor evil roleplaying.
-Abasha says, "Personally, I love supporting evil characters, but not if they can't take their lumps too.
-Quarel says, "Not me I hit you because I like to hit."
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Re: Ranger Bonus 2.0 on 06/20/2010 01:36 PM CDT
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Personally I would have liked a slower drift only because there is a lack of really HIGLY wild areas in DR, my test is going from the best spot I know of to be wilderness positive to just inside of town to test.

Generally as stated most won't be going from that high of a positive bonus.

I am happy to leave things where it is, since I can adjust to anything, it just seems slower drifting would be better in the long run than the current.


The Dragon priest hisses, "We'd have won, too, if it weren't for thossse meddling kidsss."
>
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Re: Ranger Bonus 2.0 on 06/20/2010 01:40 PM CDT
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Does anyone please, know how much of an effective actual rank penalty you are functioning at with the old/new system and how much of a benefit at the other side? I think it is a percentage of total survivals other than combat ones, although most would count hiding and perception/stalking as a major defense as well as an offense to some extent.



-Armifer says consequences are how we honor evil roleplaying.
-Abasha says, "Personally, I love supporting evil characters, but not if they can't take their lumps too.
-Quarel says, "Not me I hit you because I like to hit."
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Re: Ranger Bonus 2.0 on 06/20/2010 01:43 PM CDT
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<<Any chance that stats or circle is going to have any effect on this, it seems unfair for a Ranger who is out of the character manager to function exactly the same as a Ranger who is near capped or halfway there or whatever, please?

As such, it would be wonderful to somehow tie this into charisma, a stat that is woefully under utilized for rangers.

Nikpack

The gods are jerks. No, really.-Armifer

I don't think we ever take the training wheels off as players or gamemasters.-Inauri
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Re: Ranger Bonus 2.0 on 06/20/2010 01:49 PM CDT
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I really always wanted our bonus/beseeches to be tied to Charisma.


The Dragon priest hisses, "We'd have won, too, if it weren't for thossse meddling kidsss."
>
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Re: Ranger Bonus 2.0 on 06/20/2010 02:09 PM CDT
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I agree with the charisma factor consensus. I mean it is a requisite statistic for the guild in most games, including I believe this one. Other than a basic low requirement for having a wolf, which we all know companions are a dead horse and need much work, what does the guild actually use it for?


-Armifer says consequences are how we honor evil roleplaying.
-Abasha says, "Personally, I love supporting evil characters, but not if they can't take their lumps too.
-Quarel says, "Not me I hit you because I like to hit."
Reply Reply
Re: Ranger Bonus 2.0 on 06/20/2010 02:10 PM CDT
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I could get behind something Charisma-based, but if it has to be the same speed both ways, some people might prefer the faster drift and would thus suffer by training Charisma.

This may sound a little odd, but is there any possibility of letting Rangers choose (either through a toggle or through a quest, either permanent or able to be changed once a month/year) between a fast drift option and a slow drift option, with a middle option being the default?
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Re: Ranger Bonus 2.0 on 06/20/2010 02:29 PM CDT
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The charisma factor should only effect it in a positive fashion, if it is considered, it would slow drift to negative or neutral and speed up bonus regaining. I think wisdom and discipline should effect that as well.

Interesting coincidence you would suggest the toggle option, between fast and slow. I was fleetingly thinking of proposing something similar. I refrained, because I figured they would not agree. That it would be denied due to the fact it would effect the advantages some Rangers would gain. Those who were wild recluses all the time. They would obviously opt for slow,and thereby be significantly ahead had in relation to other guilds.



-Armifer says consequences are how we honor evil roleplaying.
-Abasha says, "Personally, I love supporting evil characters, but not if they can't take their lumps too.
-Quarel says, "Not me I hit you because I like to hit."
Reply Reply
Re: Ranger Bonus 2.0 on 06/20/2010 03:02 PM CDT
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Repeating myself: You are not getting your bonus to drift based on your statistics like Thief Confidence drift.

This is solely a measurement of your connection with nature and has nothing to do with how pretty or smart you are. There is nothing that makes a new Ranger different than a very experienced one in this regard, it is simply based upon your personal actions (i.e. where you choose to spend your time).

It's going to stay completely symmetrical. We may (or we may not) tweak the speed of the drift, but it's going to be the same for everyone at all circles and ages and statistics, it's not something you get to be choosy about.

-Z
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Re: Ranger Bonus 2.0 on 06/20/2010 03:57 PM CDT
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Do we know if the doubling of the one message ("You take in a deep breath to howl, but it comes out as a whimper, like a lost wolf looking for his pack.") was a user error, or a bug? For reference, this is what Hanryu has listed on the Elanthipedia page, from highest to lowest:

* You inhale deeply, a resounding howl breaking forth from within you, resonating strongly into the distance as if to announce your mastery of the wilds!
* You howl strongly, like that of a wolf calling its kin to assemble for a hunt. The sound echoes commandingly through the area.
* You inhale and howl strongly, the cacophonous sounds reverberating around you.
* You howl like a wolf calling the pack!
* You open your mouth and throw back your head, howling with a tentative but fairly resonant tone that wavers only slightly.
* You take in a deep breath air and howl softly.
* You howl meekly, unsure of yourself.
* You take in a deep breath to howl, but it comes out as a whimper, like a lost wolf looking for his pack.
* You howl quietly to yourself, echoing a soft, desolate sound that doesn't sound quite right.
* You take in a deep breath to howl, but it comes out as a whimper, like a lost wolf looking for his pack. (This message appeared again, possibly a bug.)
* You take in a deep breath to howl loudly, but instead cough and choke on the air around you.
* You open your mouth to howl, but you merely sigh like the softest wind through the trees. Sadly, not even a leaf flutters with your "mighty" breath.
* You open your mouth and roar with everything you've got! A few soft sounds reminiscent of a baby robin's first song twitter sweetly from within you.
* You give forth a mighty... yelp, which sounds more like a domesticated puppy than anything else.
* You open your mouth to howl, but it sounds more like a dying chicken than anything else.
* You take in a deep breath to howl, and let loose with a mighty... Moo?! The sounds that erupt from within you sound startlingly like the loud bleating of a young heifer giving birth to her first calf.
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Re: Ranger Bonus 2.0 on 06/20/2010 04:00 PM CDT
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might be a bug.

The Dragon priest hisses, "We'd have won, too, if it weren't for thossse meddling kidsss."
>
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Re: Ranger Bonus 2.0 on 06/20/2010 04:01 PM CDT
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I'd like to get my genie subs set up, so it'd be nice to know where the message is supposed to go =(
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Re: Ranger Bonus 2.0 on 06/20/2010 04:01 PM CDT
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This is what I get for not reading a topic carefully.

I'm still a proponent of factoring in something useful for rangers with charisma.

Nikpack

The gods are jerks. No, really.-Armifer

I don't think we ever take the training wheels off as players or gamemasters.-Inauri
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Re: Ranger Bonus 2.0 on 06/20/2010 04:18 PM CDT
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For now, i'm going with these substitutes for g3, just in case anyone else wants them. I listed them from 0 to 14, and took out the double message:

#subs {/(You inhale deeply, a resounding howl breaking forth from within you, resonating strongly into the distance as if to announce your mastery of the wilds)\!/i} {$1 (14/14)!}
#subs {/(You howl strongly, like that of a wolf calling its kin to assemble for a hunt. The sound echoes commandingly through the area)\./i} {$1 (13/14).}
#subs {/(You inhale and howl strongly, the cacophonous sounds reverberating around you)\./i} {$1 (12/14).}
#subs {/(You howl like a wolf calling the pack)\!/i} {$1 (11/14)!}
#subs {/(You open your mouth and throw back your head, howling with a tentative but fairly resonant tone that wavers only slightly)\./i} {$1 (10/14).}
#subs {/(You take in a deep breath air and howl softly)\./i} {$1 (9/14).}
#subs {/(You howl meekly, unsure of yourself)\./i} {$1 (8/14).}
#subs {/(You take in a deep breath to howl, but it comes out as a whimper, like a lost wolf looking for his pack)\./i} {$1 (7/14).}
#subs {/(You howl quietly to yourself, echoing a soft, desolate sound that doesn't sound quite right)\./i} {$1 (6/14).}
#subs {/(You take in a deep breath to howl loudly, but instead cough and choke on the air around you)\./i} {$1 (5/14).}
#subs {/(You open your mouth to howl, but you merely sigh like the softest wind through the trees. Sadly, not even a leaf flutters with your "mighty" breath)\./i} {$1 (4/14).}
#subs {/(You open your mouth and roar with everything you've got! A few soft sounds reminiscent of a baby robin's first song twitter sweetly from within you)\./i} {$1 (3/14).}
#subs {/(You give forth a mighty... yelp, which sounds more like a domesticated puppy than anything else)\./i} {$1 (2/14).}
#subs {/(You open your mouth to howl, but it sounds more like a dying chicken than anything else)\./i} {$1 (1/14).}
#subs {/(You take in a deep breath to howl, and let loose with a mighty... Moo?! The sounds that erupt from within you sound startlingly like the loud bleating of a young heifer giving birth to her first calf)\./i} {$1 (0/14).}

As an aside, I've not noticed myself drop below the max message yet on Riss in any of my normal spots, so that is encouraging.
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Re: Ranger Bonus 2.0 on 06/20/2010 04:32 PM CDT
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I don't think Charisma is how you look (Beauty or whatnot), but rather your presence, your ability to command the scene, and a certain sense of confidence in oneself.

I know you guys are GMs, but I still just want to put that out there.

_____________________________________
Victory Over Lyras, on the 397th year and 156 days since the Victory of Lanival the Redeemer.
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Re: Ranger Bonus 2.0 on 06/20/2010 04:41 PM CDT
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>I don't think Charisma is how you look (Beauty or whatnot), but rather your presence, your ability to command the scene, and a certain sense of confidence in oneself.<

Regardless of whether my commentary was meant to be an indication of the full scope of 'charisma' or not, Nature still doesn't care.

-Z
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Re: Ranger Bonus 2.0 on 06/20/2010 04:50 PM CDT
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Thank you Z,

I was not harping about it for the matter of Ranger Bonus 2.0.. But rather the extent of what Charisma is.

I'd still like Charisma to have something for all guilds, so that if you lack the stat for any guild, you are at a disadvantage.

_____________________________________
Victory Over Lyras, on the 397th year and 156 days since the Victory of Lanival the Redeemer.
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Re: Ranger Bonus 2.0 on 06/20/2010 04:53 PM CDT
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::Is having visions of beauty parlors becoming ranger hang-out spots::

;)

Seriously, though, charisma could use some loving- though it has had more recently than it used to.

Sometimes the key to happiness is not assuming it is locked in the first place- Ziggy

A journey of a thousand SMILES begins with a single step- Ziggy
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Re: Ranger Bonus 2.0 on 06/20/2010 04:58 PM CDT
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Charisma still plays a roll in our SvA and SvS spells for the offensive calcs. Just saying... it does have some direct use for us.
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Re: Ranger Bonus 2.0 on 06/20/2010 05:20 PM CDT
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My apologies, I was not aware of what specifically Thief confidence entailed or which modifiers or details effected their bonus. I have never played one very much, so most of what I understand is rather limited. It was not my intention for you to have to repeat yourself, at all, GM Zeyurn.

Is there any possible chance we might have an ability to temporarily change an area one or two degrees, only as far as it effects us for a limited number of minutes, which could be on a kind of timer, and difficult to do as well as limited, perhaps maybe, please?



Also as a possible alternative to maybe toggle between the chicken and cow messaging, okay not really entirely serious here, not suggesting anyone should code this or attempt to. Could we have a system instead where if you spend too much time in town, a representative of the Ranger guild comes and shoots you in the leg, or knocks you unconscious with a quarterstaff, or tosses a spider woven net on you, and drags you off into the wilderness, maybe ;)

Also posting too much can sometimes be lethal. :(


-Armifer says consequences are how we honor evil roleplaying.
-Abasha says, "Personally, I love supporting evil characters, but not if they can't take their lumps too.
-Quarel says, "Not me I hit you because I like to hit."
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Re: Ranger Bonus 2.0 on 06/20/2010 05:48 PM CDT
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>Is there any possible chance we might have an ability to temporarily change an area one or two degrees, only as far as it effects us for a limited number of minutes, which could be on a kind of timer, and difficult to do as well as limited, perhaps maybe, please?<

Yes, actually. In Magic 3.0 lineup for Rangers there'll be a buff ability to make every area slightly more wild just for you while it's up.

-Z
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Re: Ranger Bonus 2.0 on 06/20/2010 06:52 PM CDT
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Please check rooms there are far to many wild areas that are not wild. On a side not i would love to know the % of wild rooms compaired to the % of city rooms. I like the update but i think more thought should of went into it first.


your friendly ranger/bumb who now sits along side roads for its the only wilds around
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Re: Ranger Bonus 2.0 on 06/20/2010 06:58 PM CDT
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Lang bin isn't so ranger friendly anymore it seems.

>howl
You howl meekly, unsure of yourself.

Is that as bad as it looks?


""A reflection on a pool of water does not reveal its depth."
Do, or do not, there is no try." -Yoda
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Re: Ranger Bonus 2.0 on 06/20/2010 07:11 PM CDT
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Ratio? Probably about 85% wild rooms to 15% urban rooms.

-Z
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Re: Ranger Bonus 2.0 on 06/20/2010 07:16 PM CDT
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I should of been clearer Full wild nonhunting rooms compaired to full city nonhunting rooms
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Re: Ranger Bonus 2.0 on 06/20/2010 10:07 PM CDT
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Ok I'm really confused on what makes a ranger drift fast or slow. I must be one of the slow ones because since I got out of the town meeting in Shard 2 days ago, I can't get my bonus higher than the "You inhale and howl strongly, the cacophonous sounds reverberating around you.>>

And except for a very brief trip to the bank, I haven't been in town and been doing nice rangerly things like hunting, skinning, stalking, opening boxes, forage and so forth. Oh yes, and I only been in areas where we stalk like a mountain cat.

So what makes a ranger drift fast or slow and how can I get better bonus.

I'm glad the bonus is working as intended but come on, 2 days or more to regain a full bonus?

Zinaca and her wolf, Lucky who always has a full bonus and I'm jealous!
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Re: Ranger Bonus 2.0 on 06/20/2010 10:13 PM CDT
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<<Yes, actually. In Magic 3.0 lineup for Rangers there'll be a buff ability to make every area slightly more wild just for you while it's up.

-Z>>

That would really be cool. Something to look forward to, but please please, don't make it one of the those spells that lasts a couple of roisaen and can't be recasted or stacked. I'm venerable now and as slowly as I sneak up on critters now, that nifty spell will drop just as I get to melee. : D

Zinaca and her wolf, Lucky
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Re: Ranger Bonus 2.0 on 06/20/2010 10:16 PM CDT
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<<Lang bin isn't so ranger friendly anymore it seems.

>howl
You howl meekly, unsure of yourself.>>

Yes Langen was changed slightly to make it more friendly to thieves and a little less friendly to rangers. Don't ask me, doesn't make much sense to me since they don't tweak cities like that so we rangers would be more comfy and thieves less. But that's what they did.

Come down to Shard...lost of nice wild places down here though of course, not in Shard.

Zinaca and her wolf, Lucky
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Re: Ranger Bonus 2.0 on 06/20/2010 10:34 PM CDT
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>Don't ask me, doesn't make much sense to me since they don't tweak cities like that so we rangers would be more comfy and thieves less.

...

Leth Deriel?

-Z
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Re: Ranger Bonus 2.0 on 06/21/2010 12:31 AM CDT
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I like how there's way more 'low bonus' messages than high ones. Someone definitely had fun with it.





Individuals, families, countries, continents are destroyed at the heavy hand of Vinjince.

-GM Abasha
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