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>I like how there's way more 'low bonus' messages than high ones.
Wrong.
- GM Sithix
>Also, keep in mind you were almost never at your 'maximum' bonus under ye olde system. You're not supposed to consistently be at your 'maximum' bonus under this one either. You can just 'see' the difference better which is leading to the posts on it.
This may be true, but since the bonus was larger before, it mattered less.
The fact remains that we should be strongly encouraged to be out in the wilds.
Having many wilderness hunting areas that have low bonus positive ratings really doesn't provide that encouragement.
>I can live with it as it is, but I think I am not alone in saying that I would rather deal with taking longer to get bonus back if it means it stays high longer. In the neighborhood of twice as long, I think, though I could be happy with even longer.
THIS. While I'd rather see the wilderness get updated to be more wild, this seems like a decent compromise. Between the spell that was mentioned and our beseech, this would make the fact that most of our hunting areas leave us with a mediocre bonus more palatable. An alternative would also be to make sure the guild halls are all strongly bonus positive. This would at least give us a common set of areas to recharge.
I still strongly lobby the trails and cache rooms to be high bonus areas, as well.
-pete
This may be true, but since the bonus was larger before, it mattered less.
The fact remains that we should be strongly encouraged to be out in the wilds.
Having many wilderness hunting areas that have low bonus positive ratings really doesn't provide that encouragement.
>I can live with it as it is, but I think I am not alone in saying that I would rather deal with taking longer to get bonus back if it means it stays high longer. In the neighborhood of twice as long, I think, though I could be happy with even longer.
THIS. While I'd rather see the wilderness get updated to be more wild, this seems like a decent compromise. Between the spell that was mentioned and our beseech, this would make the fact that most of our hunting areas leave us with a mediocre bonus more palatable. An alternative would also be to make sure the guild halls are all strongly bonus positive. This would at least give us a common set of areas to recharge.
I still strongly lobby the trails and cache rooms to be high bonus areas, as well.
-pete
>The intent is in fact that when your bonus is bad the system makes some fun of you. While only a roleplaying deterrent, the goal is to make you not want to be at low bonus.
>To avoid embarrassment, we suggest not checking your bonus near other people if it's poor.
I have to say I am very happy with this aspect of the new system.
>There is nothing that makes a new Ranger different than a very experienced one in this regard, it is simply based upon your personal actions (i.e. where you choose to spend your time).
Is there any chance that this could be reconsidered? Rangers who have literally spent years in the wilds, beseeching nature, casting spells, and otherwise acting rangerly perhaps should have a stronger connection with nature that allows them to retain their bonus longer. Having the bonus go asymmetrical with a slower loss than regeneration would actually be a pretty decent 100th circle ability.
-pete
>To avoid embarrassment, we suggest not checking your bonus near other people if it's poor.
I have to say I am very happy with this aspect of the new system.
>There is nothing that makes a new Ranger different than a very experienced one in this regard, it is simply based upon your personal actions (i.e. where you choose to spend your time).
Is there any chance that this could be reconsidered? Rangers who have literally spent years in the wilds, beseeching nature, casting spells, and otherwise acting rangerly perhaps should have a stronger connection with nature that allows them to retain their bonus longer. Having the bonus go asymmetrical with a slower loss than regeneration would actually be a pretty decent 100th circle ability.
-pete
Zinaca has a good point in relationship to events and rp, She attended a meeting in town and lost her bonus, whats going to happen during invasions as most of them are in town too. Not to mention the premie meeting in the caves which can last and hour plus or other rp events and competitions that are unfriendly to rangers.
I mean honestly I love the fact that the bonus was rewritten but it seems the drift is so fast if we are the last on the list for a question at meetings, and event competitions we are screwed for the next couple hours or near that.
I think it would be nice if we were able to participate in things without the fear of losing our bonus. Now if you want to linger at the Traders tent and plaza all day you should loose your bonus not to mention many other trifle things you could be doing. Invasions, meetings and competitions should be a little more fair.
Miv
I will paper cut you to death with my awesome ranger TM!
I mean honestly I love the fact that the bonus was rewritten but it seems the drift is so fast if we are the last on the list for a question at meetings, and event competitions we are screwed for the next couple hours or near that.
I think it would be nice if we were able to participate in things without the fear of losing our bonus. Now if you want to linger at the Traders tent and plaza all day you should loose your bonus not to mention many other trifle things you could be doing. Invasions, meetings and competitions should be a little more fair.
Miv
I will paper cut you to death with my awesome ranger TM!
>This may be true, but since the bonus was larger before, it mattered less.<
Yes, now your bonus is merely typically in the realm of what those OP Thieves have at most times!
>Having many wilderness hunting areas that have low bonus positive ratings really doesn't provide that encouragement.<
Again, my sympathy is somewhat muted given that I've looked at how this works for the other side, where you're lucky if you can have a hunting area that bonuses you at all. Rangers have it pretty good in that the majority of hunting areas in the game are positive for them. This doesn't mean we won't look at stuff, just.. that you shouldn't expect 'highest bonus' areas to be common.
>An alternative would also be to make sure the guild halls are all strongly bonus positive. This would at least give us a common set of areas to recharge.<
Maybe, the problem with a 'guild hall' is by definition it implies some structure and population movement, so it shouldn't be the highest.
>I still strongly lobby the trails and cache rooms to be high bonus areas, as well.<
This probably should happen.
>Is there any chance that this could be reconsidered? Rangers who have literally spent years in the wilds, beseeching nature, casting spells, and otherwise acting rangerly perhaps should have a stronger connection with nature that allows them to retain their bonus longer.<
Nature says: "Bully for you. I don't care." It's a primal and whimsical force, not a benevolent one. This is a design decision that has been in place forever that I greatly agree with.
> I mean honestly I love the fact that the bonus was rewritten but it seems the drift is so fast if we are the last on the list for a question at meetings, and event competitions we are screwed for the next couple hours or near that.<
You can't possibly be screwed for hours if the drift is fast, that's sort of the point. You would be screwed for hours if we made it slower. Again, I don't think people understand the actual implications, even though I'm not against making it (somewhat) slower.
-Z
Yes, now your bonus is merely typically in the realm of what those OP Thieves have at most times!
>Having many wilderness hunting areas that have low bonus positive ratings really doesn't provide that encouragement.<
Again, my sympathy is somewhat muted given that I've looked at how this works for the other side, where you're lucky if you can have a hunting area that bonuses you at all. Rangers have it pretty good in that the majority of hunting areas in the game are positive for them. This doesn't mean we won't look at stuff, just.. that you shouldn't expect 'highest bonus' areas to be common.
>An alternative would also be to make sure the guild halls are all strongly bonus positive. This would at least give us a common set of areas to recharge.<
Maybe, the problem with a 'guild hall' is by definition it implies some structure and population movement, so it shouldn't be the highest.
>I still strongly lobby the trails and cache rooms to be high bonus areas, as well.<
This probably should happen.
>Is there any chance that this could be reconsidered? Rangers who have literally spent years in the wilds, beseeching nature, casting spells, and otherwise acting rangerly perhaps should have a stronger connection with nature that allows them to retain their bonus longer.<
Nature says: "Bully for you. I don't care." It's a primal and whimsical force, not a benevolent one. This is a design decision that has been in place forever that I greatly agree with.
> I mean honestly I love the fact that the bonus was rewritten but it seems the drift is so fast if we are the last on the list for a question at meetings, and event competitions we are screwed for the next couple hours or near that.<
You can't possibly be screwed for hours if the drift is fast, that's sort of the point. You would be screwed for hours if we made it slower. Again, I don't think people understand the actual implications, even though I'm not against making it (somewhat) slower.
-Z
>You can't possibly be screwed for hours if the drift is fast, that's sort of the point. You would be screwed for hours if we made it slower. Again, I don't think people understand the actual implications, even though I'm not against making it (somewhat) slower.
This makes perfect sense to me, to put it into perspective for others:
If it takes 75 minutes to go from highest to lowest, you can spend < 75 minutes in town and not bottom out, or you can spend > 75 minutes and have it bottom out. The >75 can be anything from 75 minutes to a multitude of hours. Once you're done, go out, find a full wilds spot, and in 75 minutes you're back at your max.
If they change it so it takes 150 minutes to bottom out, then you can spend < 150 minutes in town and not bottom out, or >150 minutes and bottom out. But if you spend >75 minutes in town, you will have to spend more time than under the current fast drift in max wilderness to refill.
Really, if you're going to spend more than a few minutes in town, it's often times going to be >75 minutes (all of your meetings, auctions, etc). So if you switch to a slower drift, you're going to spend more time getting bonus back.
Since it seems to take about 5 minutes to drop a level; how many of you plan on spending more than 5 but less than 10 minutes in town? This would be the only point behind doubling drift time imho, to keep the higher bonus longer (as opposed to avoiding bottoming out completely).
This makes perfect sense to me, to put it into perspective for others:
If it takes 75 minutes to go from highest to lowest, you can spend < 75 minutes in town and not bottom out, or you can spend > 75 minutes and have it bottom out. The >75 can be anything from 75 minutes to a multitude of hours. Once you're done, go out, find a full wilds spot, and in 75 minutes you're back at your max.
If they change it so it takes 150 minutes to bottom out, then you can spend < 150 minutes in town and not bottom out, or >150 minutes and bottom out. But if you spend >75 minutes in town, you will have to spend more time than under the current fast drift in max wilderness to refill.
Really, if you're going to spend more than a few minutes in town, it's often times going to be >75 minutes (all of your meetings, auctions, etc). So if you switch to a slower drift, you're going to spend more time getting bonus back.
Since it seems to take about 5 minutes to drop a level; how many of you plan on spending more than 5 but less than 10 minutes in town? This would be the only point behind doubling drift time imho, to keep the higher bonus longer (as opposed to avoiding bottoming out completely).
Perhaps I was a bit rash witht he hours satement, but someone did post a log that it took over an hour to go from worst to best bonus.
I enjoy attending meetings and invasions they are great fun to participate in, perhaps we could have a few more invasions on the roads like in the old days when the cyclops would terrorize the road for a bit.
Personally, these are just concerns as I am having no issues yet with keeping my bonus up, perhaps you could look at the timer on Beseech Elanthia to Transfer as it seems a bit long as well. Having that beseech has allowed me to regain anything I lost in town. To be honest I avoid town like the plague unless there is a reason for me to go there, meetings and invasions for example. Could you make the sea caves a bit more friendly?
Thanks,
Miv
I will paper cut you to death with my awesome ranger TM!
I enjoy attending meetings and invasions they are great fun to participate in, perhaps we could have a few more invasions on the roads like in the old days when the cyclops would terrorize the road for a bit.
Personally, these are just concerns as I am having no issues yet with keeping my bonus up, perhaps you could look at the timer on Beseech Elanthia to Transfer as it seems a bit long as well. Having that beseech has allowed me to regain anything I lost in town. To be honest I avoid town like the plague unless there is a reason for me to go there, meetings and invasions for example. Could you make the sea caves a bit more friendly?
Thanks,
Miv
I will paper cut you to death with my awesome ranger TM!
>>Rangers who have literally spent years in the wilds, beseeching nature, casting spells, and otherwise acting rangerly perhaps should have a stronger connection with nature that allows them to retain their bonus longer.
>>Nature says: "Bully for you. I don't care." It's a primal and whimsical force, not a benevolent one. This is a design decision that has been in place forever that I greatly agree with.
Nature is nature. It is the biological and in some regards metaphysical ebb and flow from death to life to death again. It is not anthropomorphic; it does not come when you call because it cares. It flows as it will flow in a primal stream of growth, decline and energy, and the Life magician learns to ride high on the cycle. Until he is kindly but firmly told to step aside for the next generation.
It's sort of the counterpoint to the existentialist and Lovecraftian themes that get played out with Moon Mages and Necromancers: the Life magician in his archetype is the wise man who knows the world is going to keep turnin' and how to use that fact for his benefit.
tl;dr - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n2OmNwx61Lc
-Armifer
"In our days truth is taken to result from the effacing of the living man behind the mathematical structures that think themselves out in him, rather than he be thinking them." - Emmanuel Levinas
>>Nature says: "Bully for you. I don't care." It's a primal and whimsical force, not a benevolent one. This is a design decision that has been in place forever that I greatly agree with.
Nature is nature. It is the biological and in some regards metaphysical ebb and flow from death to life to death again. It is not anthropomorphic; it does not come when you call because it cares. It flows as it will flow in a primal stream of growth, decline and energy, and the Life magician learns to ride high on the cycle. Until he is kindly but firmly told to step aside for the next generation.
It's sort of the counterpoint to the existentialist and Lovecraftian themes that get played out with Moon Mages and Necromancers: the Life magician in his archetype is the wise man who knows the world is going to keep turnin' and how to use that fact for his benefit.
tl;dr - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n2OmNwx61Lc
-Armifer
"In our days truth is taken to result from the effacing of the living man behind the mathematical structures that think themselves out in him, rather than he be thinking them." - Emmanuel Levinas
>I enjoy attending meetings and invasions they are great fun to participate in
>To be honest I avoid town like the plague unless there is a reason for me to go there, meetings and invasions for example.
These are decisions one must make. Same as it was always my decision to go into town to murder and rampage, knowing full well my bonus was going to go down and I was going to operate at -300 ranks until I left.
I now have a 5 minute window to run in, find my target, kill it, and escape, all at full bonus. I find this much more palatable than what we had a week ago. =)
And even at max negative bonus... I don't think we'll be nearly as bad off as we were before with the double negative.
>To be honest I avoid town like the plague unless there is a reason for me to go there, meetings and invasions for example.
These are decisions one must make. Same as it was always my decision to go into town to murder and rampage, knowing full well my bonus was going to go down and I was going to operate at -300 ranks until I left.
I now have a 5 minute window to run in, find my target, kill it, and escape, all at full bonus. I find this much more palatable than what we had a week ago. =)
And even at max negative bonus... I don't think we'll be nearly as bad off as we were before with the double negative.
Let me break it down as simple as I can.
Fast Drift:
The good.
If you spend 72 minutes in town, it will only take 72 minutes out of town to reach full bonus.
That is the most extreme cases, so if you are planning to stay in town for a Play... that takes 4 hours, you'll only have to be out of town for 72 minutes to regain your bonus to full... Which is great from a lot of people stand point.
The bad.
This is prospectively bad not everyone will see it the same.
To me, for the rangers who never care to spend much time in town, I personally am anal about my bonus so i always choose wilderness hot areas to hang out. But for those who are... they don't get a much utility out of their maximum bonus if they are spending a greater amount of time in wilderness regardless. So moving away from those great rooms to a ... neutral hunting area, you'll lose your bonus pretty fast in most cases.
Slow drift:
The good.
While under a slower drifting rate, if you spend your day in nothing but wilderness your bonus will last a few extra minutse at each positive stage while you are in town, slowly drifting to netural.
This is more appealing in my point of view since I don't see my ranger in town unless he is prepared to pay the price generally. Rangers who want to hang and socialize should expect their senses to be dulled, the amount of time it takes to get there or recover should be considered.
I think a slower drift is more rewarding in the long run, because it allows my bonus to last for a longer period of time.
The bad.
For any ranger who loves to socialize, or hang out in town, or even neutral areas, it will take a great deal longer for you to recover.. so right now 72 minutes might seem like a short time, but if you take 4 hours to recover like our old bonus, a lot of people will complain.
Conclusion:
I don't try to represent the guild, or the majoirty of the guild. Really it is a huge choice and pretty hard to please everyone in this case. They both are livable situations, and it comes down to your playstyle of a ranger. My ranger feels the walls closing in on him, even though he has taken roles that have put him in the middle of town... Those roles were times he was willing ot sacrfice and go back out of town to regain his bonus.
All rangers will disagree or agree at various points about the Drifting.
If there was a way to choose... based upon pathway, trails, or something what speed your bonus would drift, my option would be the slowest possible.
Hope this explination helps clear it up some.
The Dragon priest hisses, "We'd have won, too, if it weren't for thossse meddling kidsss."
>
Fast Drift:
The good.
If you spend 72 minutes in town, it will only take 72 minutes out of town to reach full bonus.
That is the most extreme cases, so if you are planning to stay in town for a Play... that takes 4 hours, you'll only have to be out of town for 72 minutes to regain your bonus to full... Which is great from a lot of people stand point.
The bad.
This is prospectively bad not everyone will see it the same.
To me, for the rangers who never care to spend much time in town, I personally am anal about my bonus so i always choose wilderness hot areas to hang out. But for those who are... they don't get a much utility out of their maximum bonus if they are spending a greater amount of time in wilderness regardless. So moving away from those great rooms to a ... neutral hunting area, you'll lose your bonus pretty fast in most cases.
Slow drift:
The good.
While under a slower drifting rate, if you spend your day in nothing but wilderness your bonus will last a few extra minutse at each positive stage while you are in town, slowly drifting to netural.
This is more appealing in my point of view since I don't see my ranger in town unless he is prepared to pay the price generally. Rangers who want to hang and socialize should expect their senses to be dulled, the amount of time it takes to get there or recover should be considered.
I think a slower drift is more rewarding in the long run, because it allows my bonus to last for a longer period of time.
The bad.
For any ranger who loves to socialize, or hang out in town, or even neutral areas, it will take a great deal longer for you to recover.. so right now 72 minutes might seem like a short time, but if you take 4 hours to recover like our old bonus, a lot of people will complain.
Conclusion:
I don't try to represent the guild, or the majoirty of the guild. Really it is a huge choice and pretty hard to please everyone in this case. They both are livable situations, and it comes down to your playstyle of a ranger. My ranger feels the walls closing in on him, even though he has taken roles that have put him in the middle of town... Those roles were times he was willing ot sacrfice and go back out of town to regain his bonus.
All rangers will disagree or agree at various points about the Drifting.
If there was a way to choose... based upon pathway, trails, or something what speed your bonus would drift, my option would be the slowest possible.
Hope this explination helps clear it up some.
The Dragon priest hisses, "We'd have won, too, if it weren't for thossse meddling kidsss."
>
<<Nature is nature. It is the biological and in some regards metaphysical ebb and flow from death to life to death again. It is not anthropomorphic; it does not come when you call because it cares.>>
Take it back! Eu cares!!
The Dragon priest hisses, "We'd have won, too, if it weren't for thossse meddling kidsss."
>
Take it back! Eu cares!!
The Dragon priest hisses, "We'd have won, too, if it weren't for thossse meddling kidsss."
>
<<Maybe, the problem with a 'guild hall' is by definition it implies some structure and population movement, so it shouldn't be the highest.>>
Ok here I think you are misguided. Except for the Riverhaven tent (which I still think is rangerly), Langen's log house and the Boar Clan longhouse, the rest of the guilds are in remote places and are as natural looking as they can be. And really, Crossing's guild does a great job of blending into the forest.
Shard's guild is hollowed out tree area, Aesery's is a cave. I think, that at least in Shard and Aesery, the guilds should have the highest wilderness setting.
As for population--except for the Crossing guild, which by nature has a lot of young rangers sitting classes, I have rarely ever seen anyone else in the other guilds when I have gone to advance.
Even the guilds in "town" do a good job of blending in as much as possible and inside are very nature friendly(except being Tolle's which is a log house).
Anyway my opinion is the guilds should be a place where the ranger feels very comfy and a place to recharge our bonuses. Thieves (the only other close bonus sense) naturally can recharge in their guilds since all of them are in cities. I would hope we rangers could do so too.
Zinaca and her wolf, Lucky
Ok here I think you are misguided. Except for the Riverhaven tent (which I still think is rangerly), Langen's log house and the Boar Clan longhouse, the rest of the guilds are in remote places and are as natural looking as they can be. And really, Crossing's guild does a great job of blending into the forest.
Shard's guild is hollowed out tree area, Aesery's is a cave. I think, that at least in Shard and Aesery, the guilds should have the highest wilderness setting.
As for population--except for the Crossing guild, which by nature has a lot of young rangers sitting classes, I have rarely ever seen anyone else in the other guilds when I have gone to advance.
Even the guilds in "town" do a good job of blending in as much as possible and inside are very nature friendly(except being Tolle's which is a log house).
Anyway my opinion is the guilds should be a place where the ranger feels very comfy and a place to recharge our bonuses. Thieves (the only other close bonus sense) naturally can recharge in their guilds since all of them are in cities. I would hope we rangers could do so too.
Zinaca and her wolf, Lucky
<<It is not anthropomorphic; it does not come when you call because it cares.>>
I agree about the anthropomorphic (although I still call nature Mother Nature), but it does come and aid us in our beseeches. The sun concentrates in our right hands with the Beseech the Sun to Dry, the wind cleanses with Beseech the Wind to Clean, and also preserves. The mosses and water spiders make stepping stones over water in Beseech the Water to Solidify, and so forth.
Anyway, my 2 coppers.
Zinaca and her wolf, Lucky
I agree about the anthropomorphic (although I still call nature Mother Nature), but it does come and aid us in our beseeches. The sun concentrates in our right hands with the Beseech the Sun to Dry, the wind cleanses with Beseech the Wind to Clean, and also preserves. The mosses and water spiders make stepping stones over water in Beseech the Water to Solidify, and so forth.
Anyway, my 2 coppers.
Zinaca and her wolf, Lucky
Again could someone please give an accurate post on how much of a bonus or penalty with regard to effected skills, which we know what the skills are that are effected. I would just like to know to what degree under the old and new system, I mean is it +/- 200 ranks? 300? a set percentage or what, please? I suspect it might be something like between 25 percent to a third of certain survivals. Fortunately it doesn't effect things such as shield, evasion or magics.
Also I would like to amend my previous remark stating I felt a social event-oriented Ranger was similar to a corrupt Paladin, violent Empath or redeemed Necromancer. These examples suffer at much higher levels of penalty than the Ranger. I think probably a wilderness loving or highly moral Thief or a Cleric with poor devotion would be a much better example or perhaps a Barbarian with low inner fire.
-Armifer says consequences are how we honor evil roleplaying.
-Abasha says, "Personally, I love supporting evil characters, but not if they can't take their lumps too.
-Quarel says, "Not me I hit you because I like to hit."
Also I would like to amend my previous remark stating I felt a social event-oriented Ranger was similar to a corrupt Paladin, violent Empath or redeemed Necromancer. These examples suffer at much higher levels of penalty than the Ranger. I think probably a wilderness loving or highly moral Thief or a Cleric with poor devotion would be a much better example or perhaps a Barbarian with low inner fire.
-Armifer says consequences are how we honor evil roleplaying.
-Abasha says, "Personally, I love supporting evil characters, but not if they can't take their lumps too.
-Quarel says, "Not me I hit you because I like to hit."
If you're having drift problems I feel bad for you son.
I've got 99 problems and a passive boost ain't one.
But more seriously, I just wanted to chime in for those worried about premium meetings and point out that you can always go to the meetings with a different character on your account. Sometimes it's more fun to do that because then Zadraes and the gang don't see it coming when you ask for boats and horses. At least, that's why I do it.
-=Issus=-
I've got 99 problems and a passive boost ain't one.
But more seriously, I just wanted to chime in for those worried about premium meetings and point out that you can always go to the meetings with a different character on your account. Sometimes it's more fun to do that because then Zadraes and the gang don't see it coming when you ask for boats and horses. At least, that's why I do it.
-=Issus=-
...a 'guild hall' is by definition it implies some structure and population movement, so it shouldn't be the highest. -Z
Out in the caracal trees, which is clearly in the middle of nowhere, is somewhat positive and I can easily maintain the third highest bonus messaging. Seems reasonable, I guess.
BUT there are several areas in the lands where there are structures in rooms rated strong wilderness (some of the rooms have more wilderness descriptions than others).
I'm not interested in having every room's wilderness level checked (or getting into long discussions over where the wilderness line is/was drawn), BUT could you give some guidelines on when should players be flagging a room as being out of whack?
Buildings = nature's kryptonite??? Tell that to Hurricane Katrina... ;-)
Shendorian
Out in the caracal trees, which is clearly in the middle of nowhere, is somewhat positive and I can easily maintain the third highest bonus messaging. Seems reasonable, I guess.
BUT there are several areas in the lands where there are structures in rooms rated strong wilderness (some of the rooms have more wilderness descriptions than others).
I'm not interested in having every room's wilderness level checked (or getting into long discussions over where the wilderness line is/was drawn), BUT could you give some guidelines on when should players be flagging a room as being out of whack?
Buildings = nature's kryptonite??? Tell that to Hurricane Katrina... ;-)
Shendorian
I think the percentage is just something we have to figure out on our own. I also have not seen any percentage floating around for our bonus +/-; people will have to test on known climbing ranges or swim areas to see how their skill is effected either way and be transparent with the community.
I don't think this is something the GM's are just going to tell us.
-Ranger Rhicter
I don't think this is something the GM's are just going to tell us.
-Ranger Rhicter
Z and Armifer: I think the point is not that Nature changes, but that the Ranger changes. Why shouldn't the Ranger get better at using Nature?
Also, this thread seems to be giving implications that are contrary to the minimal established lore regarding Beseeches. In fact, this thread is really making it seem necessary to get a lot more lore established regarding Rangers and their connection with Nature. It seems as though not only is chanting and asking for help pointless, but even trying to command Nature to act would be pointless. How, then, do Beseeches work at all?
Also, this thread seems to be giving implications that are contrary to the minimal established lore regarding Beseeches. In fact, this thread is really making it seem necessary to get a lot more lore established regarding Rangers and their connection with Nature. It seems as though not only is chanting and asking for help pointless, but even trying to command Nature to act would be pointless. How, then, do Beseeches work at all?
<<Yes, actually. In Magic 3.0 lineup for Rangers there'll be a buff ability to make every area slightly more wild just for you while it's up.
That sounds pretty cool.
On a side note, I have always thought a cleric/ranger at a certain skill/circle level should impact the surrounding area simply because of "who they are".
I have this vision of a 150th circle (fill in the blank skill check) ranger walking along a city street and the pent up forest/wilderness trying to break through the man-made barriers in his/her wake.
Total aside, but a thought I have always had with high level rangers. The basic concept is that the wild always conquers eventually. Cities and man-made objects come and go, but in the end...the wild always reclaims its own.
Madigan
That sounds pretty cool.
On a side note, I have always thought a cleric/ranger at a certain skill/circle level should impact the surrounding area simply because of "who they are".
I have this vision of a 150th circle (fill in the blank skill check) ranger walking along a city street and the pent up forest/wilderness trying to break through the man-made barriers in his/her wake.
Total aside, but a thought I have always had with high level rangers. The basic concept is that the wild always conquers eventually. Cities and man-made objects come and go, but in the end...the wild always reclaims its own.
Madigan
>>I have this vision of a 150th circle (fill in the blank skill check) ranger walking along a city street and the pent up forest/wilderness trying to break through the man-made barriers in his/her wake.
We initially batted around the idea of a spell / beseech that literally made the area more wild. Like, sprouts bursting through the cobblestones kind of deal. But scrapped it because it'd conceptually be illegal to use around town and there are more user-friendly ways to conceive of the same function.
>>I agree about the anthropomorphic (although I still call nature Mother Nature), but it does come and aid us in our beseeches.
The clause may be more understandable if you do not ignore half of it.
"It does not come when you call because it cares." As a number of posts have pointed out, it does, in fact, come.
-Armifer
"In our days truth is taken to result from the effacing of the living man behind the mathematical structures that think themselves out in him, rather than he be thinking them." - Emmanuel Levinas
We initially batted around the idea of a spell / beseech that literally made the area more wild. Like, sprouts bursting through the cobblestones kind of deal. But scrapped it because it'd conceptually be illegal to use around town and there are more user-friendly ways to conceive of the same function.
>>I agree about the anthropomorphic (although I still call nature Mother Nature), but it does come and aid us in our beseeches.
The clause may be more understandable if you do not ignore half of it.
"It does not come when you call because it cares." As a number of posts have pointed out, it does, in fact, come.
-Armifer
"In our days truth is taken to result from the effacing of the living man behind the mathematical structures that think themselves out in him, rather than he be thinking them." - Emmanuel Levinas
>Z and Armifer: I think the point is not that Nature changes, but that the Ranger changes. Why shouldn't the Ranger get better at using Nature?
This is the point I was trying to make about experienced rangers. Thank you for saying it better than I did.
nature doesn't care more about the ranger... The ranger has figured out his/her connection to nature better.
-pete
This is the point I was trying to make about experienced rangers. Thank you for saying it better than I did.
nature doesn't care more about the ranger... The ranger has figured out his/her connection to nature better.
-pete
So, do I have this conceptualized close to the intended idea: The reality is that Rangers bend and influence the forces of impartial/uncaring/insentient nature, but the Guild puts a gentler sentient spin on the reality (i.e. through terminology we see in spell descriptions and lore wording - beseeching, commanding, beckoning, etc.)?
~Brian/Bahb
~Brian/Bahb
>>Or maybe another way to put it: Nature doesn't do what we (rangers) want in return for performing the function of Nature's Caretakers, rather we can get nature to do what we want because we spend so much time around it doing Caretaker stuff?
Yeah.
Beseeches are meant to be a bit fuzzy. There are Ranger-mystics who really, truly believe they are in communion with the "spirit of Elanthia" or however you want to conceptualize a nature god. A more conventional but perhaps not popular view would be that Rangers learn supernatural techniques to "tap into the flow" and divert some of Nature's energy down a slightly different path.
And there is something to be said for nature spirits. There is no "nature overgod" that cares or even understands what Rangers want, but it's entirely possible that a supernaturally minded Ranger could conceive of and even communicate with the spirit of a specific brook, speak to a tree, or something along those lines.
-Armifer
"In our days truth is taken to result from the effacing of the living man behind the mathematical structures that think themselves out in him, rather than he be thinking them." - Emmanuel Levinas
Yeah.
Beseeches are meant to be a bit fuzzy. There are Ranger-mystics who really, truly believe they are in communion with the "spirit of Elanthia" or however you want to conceptualize a nature god. A more conventional but perhaps not popular view would be that Rangers learn supernatural techniques to "tap into the flow" and divert some of Nature's energy down a slightly different path.
And there is something to be said for nature spirits. There is no "nature overgod" that cares or even understands what Rangers want, but it's entirely possible that a supernaturally minded Ranger could conceive of and even communicate with the spirit of a specific brook, speak to a tree, or something along those lines.
-Armifer
"In our days truth is taken to result from the effacing of the living man behind the mathematical structures that think themselves out in him, rather than he be thinking them." - Emmanuel Levinas
Stepping back for a moment, the intent is that every guild (or at least every realm of magic) has a different spin on reality. It'd get extremely boring and repetitive if every guild struggled for glorious personal transcendence, dealt with extraplanar creatures, were the servants of an almighty god, or any other specific thing.
After all, if we couldn't describe the difference between a spell and a beseech, or a beseech and a commune, or a commune and a prediction, then we'd probably have too many guilds.
-Armifer
"In our days truth is taken to result from the effacing of the living man behind the mathematical structures that think themselves out in him, rather than he be thinking them." - Emmanuel Levinas
After all, if we couldn't describe the difference between a spell and a beseech, or a beseech and a commune, or a commune and a prediction, then we'd probably have too many guilds.
-Armifer
"In our days truth is taken to result from the effacing of the living man behind the mathematical structures that think themselves out in him, rather than he be thinking them." - Emmanuel Levinas
>>If you find a room that you think should be wild, but you know is not, you should BUG it. DR has over 60,000 rooms, and I'm sure there are rooms that are not urbanly coded correctly. That doesnt mean the "GMS ARE OUT TO GET US". Not to mention, it's already been mentioned that over 80% (90?) of the game is wilderness rooms. As far as wilderness rooms go, we have it pretty good.
My favorite environmental settings bug ever was the Moon Mage guildhall that was set to be a tropical forest.
I'm... not sure if we ever fixed that or not.
-Armifer
"In our days truth is taken to result from the effacing of the living man behind the mathematical structures that think themselves out in him, rather than he be thinking them." - Emmanuel Levinas
My favorite environmental settings bug ever was the Moon Mage guildhall that was set to be a tropical forest.
I'm... not sure if we ever fixed that or not.
-Armifer
"In our days truth is taken to result from the effacing of the living man behind the mathematical structures that think themselves out in him, rather than he be thinking them." - Emmanuel Levinas
As a note: To people who continue to think a 'High Level Ranger' should be held to different standards with regards to their standing with Nature.
My agreement on this would not be in your favor, since I believe a 'High Level Ranger' should be held to stricter standards than a 'Low Level Ranger' since 'They should dang well know better'. It's nicer for everyone that we just leave it flat.
That being said, you do get better at 'utilizing' your connection to Nature because you learn about more beseeches and what have you. (Let's leave aside the relative uselessness of the beseeches for now and pretend we live in a world where they all are valued additions to your arsenal)
We're going to make a few tweaks tonight most likely which I shall post about when they happen.
-Z
My agreement on this would not be in your favor, since I believe a 'High Level Ranger' should be held to stricter standards than a 'Low Level Ranger' since 'They should dang well know better'. It's nicer for everyone that we just leave it flat.
That being said, you do get better at 'utilizing' your connection to Nature because you learn about more beseeches and what have you. (Let's leave aside the relative uselessness of the beseeches for now and pretend we live in a world where they all are valued additions to your arsenal)
We're going to make a few tweaks tonight most likely which I shall post about when they happen.
-Z
