<<<Do I need more exposure to him to think he's not quite as wise as Kukakalai? No, I do not think I do. He is a great man, and a good leader, but that doesn't make him any less of a bloomin idiot in my characters eyes.
>>>

As wise as Kukalakai? Maybe not, but shes alot older then him. But in a time of war, OOCly, I think the prince is a much better leader. The ferdahl is wayyy too peaceful and diplomatic for my tastes.

<chants> More sailing! Lets crush some more pirate scum

Everyone is going to have their opinions on who is great and who isn't. The main point besides the fact that you tried to interact with him, is that a balance between fun and seriousness needs to be made.

You can't just have people saying or doing things that would negatively effect the province you reside in without proper punishment.

What is proper punishment? That is the main question and the purpose of this thread.

I wouldn't go as far as walking a character if they chose to RP as a treasonist. At the same time, I would not give them something as measly as a 50 plat fine (That's insanely measly for that type of crime). Public executions, exile from the province, a fine of 50 plats or around that. Those are all worthy options that would still enable a person to RP their character as a treasonist if they chose to do so.

Ruffles Scourge of the Seas

<<<Do I have to interact with someone to think thier decsions are bloomin stupid? No, I do not. I have been Jailed and Fined what most people would consider to be a significant amount for calling him a silly name. However that is not why I think he is an idiot, in addition to that I do not really need a good reason to think someone is an idiot, since I tend to consider most people idiots. (I am a trader...)>>>

Well stated ;)

<<<Needless to say I now AVOID him. as I do not wish to be hit by his whimsical Justice again. (you know the justice that allows two time traitors to continue being commanders)>>>

This one is always a tough decision to make, but I based his 'forgiveness' more on how I envisioned an honorable ruler would act. He will always (well mostly always) give second chances to those that are sincere. Those that break that second chance will not get a third.

<<<Just because others have forgotten about his death after the execution of Siloran and the people involved doesn't mean that I have, and to see them given places of respect.. well Bloomin Idiot comes to mind.>>>

A lot of people didn't realized they were duped by the traitor Molphant into believing Sirolarn was in the right and Vorclaf was in the wrong. Many of those who 'rebelled' against Vorclaf later learned of the truth and have since repented.

Thank you for sharing more information on the way you RP your trader. My earlier statement was made based on my interaction (or lack of) with your character since I had taken Vorclaf over.

-V

I was trying to sell in front of the bank and some goon pushed me into a green moongate into one of those padded rooms, then another green moongate plopped me on the shores of mriss, and great circling fun commenced. I think thats pretty good justice.


http://www.houseofownzing.com/logs/drachstar.html

http://www.legends-end.com/Tourney/

TRADER OWNZING:
You hear a yelp and a soft thud from behind you and your rickety caravan swerves a bit.

For Schvartz, she's a citizen of Aesry; as Shayddow in plat is a citizen of Ilithi -- but being in the occupation they have run afoul of the law more than once. Although sometimes for things that aren't her fault <blowing a box isn't usually something intentional, and getting 3 charges for it is pretty over-the-top. especially in plat where there are unlikely any PCs nearby>. But to both of them they outwardly show the proper respect to the "law" of the land, wishing them prosperity in their lands <and naturally if that prosperity means more full pockets to pick, that would be just fine>.

Both of them are more respectful of S'Kra rulers however - Vorclaf is tolerated as a Smoothskin because there is no alternative, but if ruling houses of Ratha or Muspar'I <both S'kra> were to take over - that would be fine with either one of them. That of course doesn't mean they would stop looting the shops of a S'kra run town <G>. Business is business, ya understand.

But rebellions don't get their support. Because frankly, rebellions means - more guards on the streets. More wary citizenry. Both of which are - Bad for business. So, self-interest is as good a motivation as any for discouraging the fomenting of rebellion. :-)

And as her organization was particularly responsible for putting Vorclaf in that position - particularly in Plat, she DOES expect some... overlooking of certain.. illegal <?> activity once in awhile that in no way harms the prince or his interests.




-gonif family-


~Weak of arm,crazy roar;
terrible aim,awful health;
broken fingers,no real stealth;
leave em dead,stabbed some more;
lost your coins,on the floor;
greetings!now you're out the door~
>

I appreciate your responding.

Being chosen for comissions I don't see as that great a deal. It is nice to run contracts for a good cause, but its still just that, running contracts.

What I meant was that Traders and Empaths are generally ignored, in my opinion, when decisions of a political nature are made. For example my character has had multiple dealings with the Feradahl, merchants, villians and other people of the realms. Yet the Prince never has once asked for her input on any matter, has never once given her an assignment. Its not just sour grapes. Apu, Xip, Idora, Annandale, Naria, Brynnhilde, are also leaders in the Trader's guild and command a good deal of respect and influence yet the Prince has never made use of that. It seems that only fighters are approached or even listened to.






>>>>Step forward and be recognized. It is not the Prince's place to come to you and say, 'Good job' if you never take the time to petition or greet with him. Make your deeds known. It is not boisterous or egotistical to tell your story or swear fealty to the Prince. The Prince would rather have someone's true loyalty and fealty than to have them say, here's a 50 plat gift certificate to Tembegs.>>>


I could give the Prince 50 plat without breaking a sweat. I don't need money or gifts from him.
I have talked to the Prince on quite a few occasions, however on the rare occasions he has deigned to present himself, he is invariably swarmed by people. Both IC and OCC I consider it rude and pushy not to mention the worst kind of manners to basically kidnap my liege just for few moments of his time.

Everyone else in Zoluren knows Nirveli, her repuatation, her views and her deeds. Why doesn't the Prince? If anything I would expect that he would recieving intelligence reports on ALL the influential guildmembers. I feel in every way that I have made myself as known to the Prince as I can short of having fliers made up and plastering them on the throne. I have talked to him, danced with him, won in the Kaith Kirm, sworn loyalty to him, helped two of his guardsmen after they were attacked, given sworn statements to his herald and defended him on the gweth.

Nirveli has always felt actions speak louder than words.

I'm not talking about just rewards like RPAs, money, etc. I am talking about being a part of the court, not as a noble lady...well not right away anyway...but involved in the RP of gossip and intrigue and making deals. Being the lackey of another noble would be fine however it doesn't seem like the nobles have much of a life outside of the prince.

I am not asking for 'special privledges". I would just like to see the ruler's courts run more like the way they are supposed to be and have more oppertunities for roleplaying than just attacking GMPCs or being trying to compete for notice at events <the Kobold Necromancer thing was an example of a long, complicated and ultimately pointless foray>.

Some of the best rp sessions I've had where with Countess Vanassa and other 'merchants'. Just kicking back and talking about things of mutual interest. I really enjoyed talking to Evirak too, gave me an oppertunity to tell a story.


Forgiving people is great. I guess I am just disappointed the same people keep getting the spotlight no matter how they act, while I struggle to get noticied for being what I am supposed to be (good, loyal etc.) I really can't think of another IC way to make Nirveli more outspoken if that is what you were trying to say, she is pretty darn outspoken and brazen.




Want to know what I listen to?
Listen to Launchcast at http://launch.yahoo.com/lc/?rt=0&rp1=0&rp2=1326709416

you tell em athiana!

~Sammee

I think my problem is I am not a GM chaser. If one happens to come across me or I have a really good reason to interact with one, I do. I don't stop what I am doing and run across the contient to meet them.

>Guilded people are not commoners, they are the extraordinary, the gifted, the well-born but younger children of nobles, the wealthy heirs of Merchant Princes and Princess, the endowed offspring of craftsmen and women who envisioned a better future for their children, and perhaps even the runaway heirs of Kings and Queens...

I was talking about PCs, you know..us.

You don't even know who I am, don't tell me how I act.



A ship's rat scurries into view.
The ship's rat tries to tend its wounds.

>First, the Prince is hardly heavy-handed OR clumsy. Anyone who spends any time with him - and a ton of people have - knows that. The GM that controls the Prince dedicates an inordinate amount of time to providing RP opportunity to just a huge base of people.

you mean that my characters perceptions of the events that happened to me are wrong?

Oh My. I guess that my perceptions of the things that I witnessed and that happened to me are wrong as well.

I don't care why he has traitors and crazy people working for him. That's clumsy. I don't care what the reasoning is a lot of the things he wants to do are heavy handed. just because you agree with them does not make it not true.

>How anyone can refuse to respect and recognize that is beyond me.

I am not refusing to respect him or his office. and I doubt that Nirveli is refusing to respect him either. In fact i know that Nirveli has a lot of respect for the prince and thinks he is a great leader.

However Nirveli's Player is a bit oppinionated about the way some of the things regarding Vorclaf have gone down over the years. I am sure that nirveli has danced with the prince on at least one occasion, has met with him on others, and has never given the prince any reason to beleive she is anything less than competely devoted to him. Nirveli would Gladly turn over her wealth to him if she thought it would make a difference. She Chooses to live in Crossing and LIKES it. these are the impressions I have received from her.

Maybe her toast was a little Gauche, however it was very cute. and she offered up a token of her loyalty, whoever owns that sword will be obeyed by Nirveli AS THOUGH they were the prince. That is the meaning of the custom she performed.

How are these bad things?


> I will never understand how some people fail to recognize what's offered to them, and only see what wasn't handed to them.

well honestly it wasn't about last night. The whole thing started when I said that I .. Idora think the prince is a bloomin idiot.. and I believe I have explained my reasoning on that. some of the things that explain Vorclaf's reasoning are unknown to my character. and being told that on a message board by a GM is not going to change her oppinion.


Now I feel that a lot of what happens to people regarding the nobility is because the players who are 'rewarded' chase the events, contrive any reason to get involved. and eventually they do get rewarded. this is NOT true in all cases. However I have seen people act this way and get rewarded for it.

I (Idora) have interacted with The Prince and he has not impressed me at all. Perhaps I'm Biased, however the events that have happened to me, do bear out my oppinion.

>A less important side note: There is a common thread between every class listed above. They typically ALL knew the etiquette of the Court, at least to some degree or another. And, opposing opinion or not, they were raised to understand the undeniable need for good manners. I would say there are a few guilded people that expect what they aren't willing to give.

ther eare a few guilded people who expect soemthing they are unwilling to give? I'm confused. I didn't see one trader act in an untword way at the Corrination... Perhaps I have been too familiar with the prince in the past <it's obvious he thought I was>, however it was not in a formal setting. Nor did I snore my way through an audience.

Perhaps it's my thought that actions speak louder than words.. and that some people are all talk. It's easy to talk a good game, but delivery is something that some people have a problem with.

Now as to the yes man point... Most rulers do surround themselves with people who agree with them. However I think the point that was trying to be made was that some people who otherwise have no reason to be involved will go to great lengths to get positions which were not too long ago outside their characters probable goals.

again this does not apply to EVERYONE... but it does apply.

We are just going to have to disagree on the way it is working out, as quite obviously you have a completely different point of view than some of us others (which is ok).


I also feel that we should try to stick to the argument and not trash the other people. I know sometimes I too am guilty of trashing others (Horrors) but I do try to not make these discussions personal.

Thank You

Idora Skylure of Ilithi.

______________________________________
Your mind hears Elriic thinking, "Hey George? Yeah Bill? What was that bump in the road? I dunno Bill? Did it squish? Yep.. Oh well."

Interact with the prince?

I'm reminded of the famous line from Fiddler on the Roof where the townspeople ask the Rabbi what brocha < blessing> to make for the Tsar.

The Rabbi replies... "May God bless and keep the Tsar...far away from us."


:-)


~Weak of arm,crazy roar;
terrible aim,awful health;
broken fingers,no real stealth;
leave em dead,stabbed some more;
lost your coins,on the floor;
greetings!now you're out the door~
>

<<<<Just as an aside, the Ferdahl IS Elothean and as such the product of a markedly different cultural and racial milieu, one which places a premium on less militant pursuits - learning, craftsmanship, the arts of peace. However, a love of peace and the pursuit of diplomacy over force doesn't mean Elotheans cannot fight as fiercely as any people at need. Frankly, I think that calm, cool racial ideal makes an ideal cover for - who knows what potential? One of the Three IS a military leader, after all :) >>>

I certainly didnt mean she was a wussy by any means, but, when compared to the other leaders, her passive policy towards general situations just isnt agreeable to me is all. Others probably love it, and theres nothing wrong with that. But, ICly, I think its a little weak of her to allow Grishnoks fort to still be standing after what he did to Lady Edenlaen and the other empaths. That place should be burned to a pile of ashes by now! But thats just my opinion, of course.

~Sammee

>A less important side note: There is a common thread between every class listed above. They typically ALL knew the etiquette of the Court, at least to some degree or another. And, opposing opinion or not, they were raised to understand the undeniable need for good manners. I would say there are a few guilded people that expect what they aren't willing to give.<<

Heh. You apparently missed the Rissan Delegation's audience. They weren't intentionally impolite, of course. Just lacking court polish.

>A lot of people didn't realized they were duped by the traitor Molphant into believing Sirolarn was in the right and Vorclaf was in the wrong. Many of those who 'rebelled' against Vorclaf later learned of the truth and have since repented.

Bah if they had listened to reason they would have known long before. Fact is many of them and not all are just sycophants to the spotlight. They'll lick the boots of anyone that keeps them there so keeping them around isn't really harmful. After all their ability to stay in the spotlight has become dependent on his well being as they once felt it was dependent on Sirolarn's. Some of those boot lickers he probably wants to keep a closer eye on and some of them were probably legitimately duped and have repented.


>Step forward and be recognized. It is not the Prince's place to come to you and say, 'Good job' if you never take the time to petition or greet with him. Make your deeds known. It is not boisterous or egotistical to tell your story or swear fealty to the Prince. The Prince would rather have someone's true loyalty and fealty than to have them say, here's a 50 plat gift certificate to Tembegs.

Any chance he'ld free up some of that 50 plat for those that died defending zoluren and his name countless times;), my account could use the help. During his self enforced exile for personal safety reasons I and a few others remained loyal to him some far more openly than me. I certainly don't expect him to know about it as the only people likely able to relate my charachters actions to him would be Lindryl (Whom I don't trust) and Sybina who doesn't seem to be around(Not to mention those actions were in game years ago like 13 or so as Lindryl became pregnant after some of them). Likewise as a charachter swearing fealty isn't an option. In fact if I ever learned he had been the one that killed his father I would be on the opposite side and an oath of fealty would definitely interfere with that ability as well as my primary obligation to see Lyras dead. My loyalty to him was solely based on him being the son of the man who granted the Rakash shelter. My opposition to sirolarn while carefully respectful(When your in the minority don't anger the man that can behead you) was based on perceiving him as the at best murderer of that man I owed a debt to or the unwitting puppet of those that orchestrated that death. Regardless of his role he forfeit his life when he failed to ceed the throne as he had promised he would upon Vorclaf's return (A promise I took great pleasure in extracting from him many years before). I personally have only met Vorclaf a couple of times, I actually interacted much more with Sirolarn than I have him. My support for him has nothing to do with his competence which I to consider suspect in some regards. I can think of one other person whose head I would absolutely have placed beside Sirolarn's but he choose otherwise and mercy while something I as a charachter see as a weakness, as a player I know in the game of thrones is at times a necessary evil. Also looking at the current situation I think I understand better why he did what he did. I think he's actually sharper than people give him credit for.


>The original treasonists did just that, and the GMs were ready too have us killed on command. The only reason we WEREN'T executed was because the OTHER PCs saved us.

A sign that his loyalists were fewer than you although we worked hard to try and make you die;). That was enjoyable. Also being fewer than you his mercy was perhaps a political necessity. If the majority had opposed you he was safe in your death. It was actually a pretty smart punishment. He was the winner either result.

The funny thing is I like keresyk which if my favored theory is right is hoped to be the next puppet of those that killed bellindrek(sp). I think the guy might surprise them however. He doesn't strike me as anyones puppet unlike Sirolarn.

As always my charachters motivations in these events are my own, are self serving and undertaken with one primary goal in mind. I regret I had to miss the coronation I'm sure some subtle political clues were given by people there that it would have been helpful to see. If anyone has a log of Lindryl's activities encounters and aquaintences I'ld really like to see it.

As a player my experience is the GM's undertaking these events do an incredible job of adding layers of depth to their charachters and giving subtle clues.

Arrys

>>Fact is many of them and not all are just sycophants to the spotlight. They'll lick the boots of anyone that keeps them there so keeping them around isn't really harmful. After all their ability to stay in the spotlight has become dependent on his well being as they once felt it was dependent on Sirolarn's.

And that's the attitude that makes no sense. Noone who was working with Molphant were chasing a spotlight, since most didn't even know who were traitors and who weren't until the capture (which only happened because the GMs made a booboo, rar!)

The original assassins after Prince Vorclaf were not in any spotlight. They KNEW to lay low, not be open about it, and to never speak of things in public to anyone who was not already marked as part of the clan.

>>That was enjoyable. Also being fewer than you his mercy was perhaps a political necessity. If the majority had opposed you he was safe in your death. It was actually a pretty smart punishment. He was the winner either result.

Yep, but others can see that as taking the wimps way out. :P

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