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Recently my friend and I were given a trader certificate for roughly 14 platinum Kronar. We weren't sure how to cash it, so we went to the bazaar tent and asked around. A very happy helpful trader, Leyena, offered very kindly to help us. She seemed very nice, and looked like she wouldn't do anything to hurt her reputation, such as steal the money. When she was cashing it in, she asked "How much money should i get out of this for cashing this certificate for you?" We had to do a risky job to get it, drag a dead friend out of polo'izh on Hara'Jaal, so we were going to keep all of the money and split it 50/50. 14 plat is a lot to us, but not to him, so he gave it to us in certificate form so it wouldn't get stolen from us. We figured that simply asking somebody to cash the certificate wasn't a huge deal, such as poping 10 boxes, or healing you, so not giving her a tip wouldn't make her too bad. I guess we were wrong, because right away her happy, cheerful, and helpful attitude went away, and the questions started. How did you get this, what did you do to get it? I told her the story, and she asked why should i believe you? Why do you have this? Who gave it to you? Why did they give it to you? She cashed the money and ran to the bank and deposited it all, staying at the bank where she could be safe. We got a GM, she claimed that seeing non-traders with certificates made her mad, but i doubt it would have made her mad if she was getting a tip. Just figured everybody should know this and not trust Leyena with any gem pouches or money.
we are traders most of us joined the guild to make coin. If I had wanted to be all fuzzy warm snuggly I woulda been an empath. Leyena did not get any experience for helping you exchange the certificate? She did not issue it? She was providing a service, not a favor.
http://www.drtraders.net/gallery
http://www.drtraders.net/gallery
Tips a relatively mandatory but asking "how much of a tip" after already seemingly agreeing to the transaction is just wrong, although your refusal to give a tip was equally rude. If you use our services, a tip is implied in the deal and you shouldnt seek us out if your intent is otherwise. Some traders even have a "no serve" list for those who dont tip. We usually dont learn a whole lot serving PCs and we make much better coin using the NPC trading system, so when we help you, we are only in it for the money. How much to tip? we leave that up to the customer usually, but generally I appreciate 50% of the Bonus I get for gem pouches (not 50% of the pouch), and 5% - 10% on anything else, depending on how involved the transaction is.
However, if this trader was that concerned about getting money out of the deal they should have been up front and asked for a fee before even accepting the certificate. It was also wrong for them to take your certificate because if they didnt like the terms of the transaction, they should have simply given the certificate back and advised you to do business elsewhere.
To avoid this in the future, use BARTER and it'll never happen again.
~Teloxius
However, if this trader was that concerned about getting money out of the deal they should have been up front and asked for a fee before even accepting the certificate. It was also wrong for them to take your certificate because if they didnt like the terms of the transaction, they should have simply given the certificate back and advised you to do business elsewhere.
To avoid this in the future, use BARTER and it'll never happen again.
~Teloxius
Gossford -
True as that is, I know you're not condoning the out and out theft of 14 plats from someone.
I'll grant that maybe (MAYBE!) there was some rudeness in not offering to tip, but taking the entire amount is just snerty and rude. Personally, I would have done it for free. IF I felt that I deserved a tip, and it wasn't being offered, I'd skim money from the certificate, but not the entire amount.
Behavior like that casts a bad light on the entire Guild. Now I understand why people were afraid to have me sell their 8 gold gem pouches when I used to wear 5,000 plats in fluff. It's just sad.
Lokta
True as that is, I know you're not condoning the out and out theft of 14 plats from someone.
I'll grant that maybe (MAYBE!) there was some rudeness in not offering to tip, but taking the entire amount is just snerty and rude. Personally, I would have done it for free. IF I felt that I deserved a tip, and it wasn't being offered, I'd skim money from the certificate, but not the entire amount.
Behavior like that casts a bad light on the entire Guild. Now I understand why people were afraid to have me sell their 8 gold gem pouches when I used to wear 5,000 plats in fluff. It's just sad.
Lokta
After rereading the original post and reviewing back to
http://www.play.net/forums/messages.asp?forum=20&category=22&topic=5&message=801
you should have put an arrow in the person that took it. but I would like to also hear the other side of the story.
http://www.drtraders.net/gallery
http://www.play.net/forums/messages.asp?forum=20&category=22&topic=5&message=801
you should have put an arrow in the person that took it. but I would like to also hear the other side of the story.
http://www.drtraders.net/gallery
Other side of story:
"Wow! I just scammed someone out of 14 plat!"
Okay, so that's not the real story -- couldn't resist!
If it's a Trader (or anyone) you're not familiar with.. always ask: how much?
-Veii
Veii's Veranda : http://drveii.mysitespace.com
- The Index of Trader Services -
- An Origami Calculator -
"Wow! I just scammed someone out of 14 plat!"
Okay, so that's not the real story -- couldn't resist!
If it's a Trader (or anyone) you're not familiar with.. always ask: how much?
-Veii
Veii's Veranda : http://drveii.mysitespace.com
- The Index of Trader Services -
- An Origami Calculator -
>>How much to tip? we leave that up to the customer usually, but generally I appreciate 50% of the Bonus I get for gem pouches (not 50% of the pouch), and 5% - 10% on anything else, depending on how involved the transaction is.
That just makes my skin crawl. Since I usually tip most of the bonus anyhow (Paying for the service of selling 70 gems), you'd think I shouldn't be that upset, but I am a little. It's shady, devious (and if this was Earth, highly illegal). Do you truly not make enough money that you skim half the bonus off of the top of 1 plat pouches? Why is it necessary to not be straight up with people? And since it seems to be a somewhat-standard process, I don't buy it if you suggest you're playing an "evil" or "unscrupulous" character.
And to scale it back: I really AM curious, no malice intended. Why? I'd feel so dirty.
~Katrenos
The bottom line here is that cursing is fun, and thats whats important. Also breaking things over peoples heads is fun. So as long as we can all argue in a way that is both fun and obscene we can all have a good time. -Sigmer
That just makes my skin crawl. Since I usually tip most of the bonus anyhow (Paying for the service of selling 70 gems), you'd think I shouldn't be that upset, but I am a little. It's shady, devious (and if this was Earth, highly illegal). Do you truly not make enough money that you skim half the bonus off of the top of 1 plat pouches? Why is it necessary to not be straight up with people? And since it seems to be a somewhat-standard process, I don't buy it if you suggest you're playing an "evil" or "unscrupulous" character.
And to scale it back: I really AM curious, no malice intended. Why? I'd feel so dirty.
~Katrenos
The bottom line here is that cursing is fun, and thats whats important. Also breaking things over peoples heads is fun. So as long as we can all argue in a way that is both fun and obscene we can all have a good time. -Sigmer
>That just makes my skin crawl. Since I usually tip most of the bonus anyhow (Paying for the service of selling 70 gems), you'd think I shouldn't be that upset, but I am a little. It's shady, devious (and if this was Earth, highly illegal). Do you truly not make enough money that you skim half the bonus off of the top of 1 plat pouches? Why is it necessary to not be straight up with people? And since it seems to be a somewhat-standard process, I don't buy it if you suggest you're playing an "evil" or "unscrupulous" character.
Just a few comments (like your post, with no malice intended):
- I didn't see anything in that text you clipped which even remotely implied that that Trader would skim money from peoples' pouches. He was saying how much he 'appreciated' being tipped, not how much he skimmed from the customer. Surely you don't have a problem with people liking to get paid a certain amount for their services, and occasionally refusing to help people in the future who they feel tip poorly? It's not something I do, because a) I need trading experience too badly, and b) I'm too lazy to keep track of who the really bad tippers are. But I don't see why anyone would have a problem with that.
- Saying that skimming would be highly illegal on Earth is just plain silly :) If you go to a pawnshop and sell something, do you really think the pawnbroker is going to give you the full value for your items? As long as you agree to his price, it's a perfectly legal business transaction - just like here in DR.
- Traders truly don't make nearly as much money as most people think, especially ones who sell gems for people. That doesn't make me want to skim money from people pouches, since most people tip well enough that I'm far better off just being 'straight up with people' and getting extra business that way. Plus there's that whole thing about needing 8 or more ranks of trading per level once our new reqs come out.
- I don't know where you got the idea that skimming is a 'somewhat-standard process', and it's not like I can actually refute that since I only know for certain what I do, but my guess is that is a somewhat-way-off assumption. Almost all Traders I've talked to claim to never skim money from pouches (and sure, they could be lying to me, but if they were skimming any significant amount of money, I'm pretty confident that they WOULD eventually be discovered by alert customers).
Apu
Just a few comments (like your post, with no malice intended):
- I didn't see anything in that text you clipped which even remotely implied that that Trader would skim money from peoples' pouches. He was saying how much he 'appreciated' being tipped, not how much he skimmed from the customer. Surely you don't have a problem with people liking to get paid a certain amount for their services, and occasionally refusing to help people in the future who they feel tip poorly? It's not something I do, because a) I need trading experience too badly, and b) I'm too lazy to keep track of who the really bad tippers are. But I don't see why anyone would have a problem with that.
- Saying that skimming would be highly illegal on Earth is just plain silly :) If you go to a pawnshop and sell something, do you really think the pawnbroker is going to give you the full value for your items? As long as you agree to his price, it's a perfectly legal business transaction - just like here in DR.
- Traders truly don't make nearly as much money as most people think, especially ones who sell gems for people. That doesn't make me want to skim money from people pouches, since most people tip well enough that I'm far better off just being 'straight up with people' and getting extra business that way. Plus there's that whole thing about needing 8 or more ranks of trading per level once our new reqs come out.
- I don't know where you got the idea that skimming is a 'somewhat-standard process', and it's not like I can actually refute that since I only know for certain what I do, but my guess is that is a somewhat-way-off assumption. Almost all Traders I've talked to claim to never skim money from pouches (and sure, they could be lying to me, but if they were skimming any significant amount of money, I'm pretty confident that they WOULD eventually be discovered by alert customers).
Apu
Katrenos' Post:
>>That just makes my skin crawl. Since I usually tip most of the bonus anyhow (Paying for the service of selling 70 gems), you'd think I shouldn't be that upset, but I am a little. It's shady, devious (and if this was Earth, highly illegal). Do you truly not make enough money that you skim half the bonus off of the top of 1 plat pouches? Why is it necessary to not be straight up with people? And since it seems to be a somewhat-standard process, I don't buy it if you suggest you're playing an "evil" or "unscrupulous" character.
Which was in response to my post (and this is the whole thing):
>>Tips a relatively mandatory but asking "how much of a tip" after already seemingly agreeing to the transaction is just wrong, although your refusal to give a tip was equally rude. If you use our services, a tip is implied in the deal and you shouldnt seek us out if your intent is otherwise. Some traders even have a "no serve" list for those who dont tip. We usually dont learn a whole lot serving PCs and we make much better coin using the NPC trading system, so when we help you, we are only in it for the money. How much to tip? we leave that up to the customer usually, but generally I appreciate 50% of the Bonus I get for gem pouches (not 50% of the pouch), and 5% - 10% on anything else, depending on how involved the transaction is.
>>However, if this trader was that concerned about getting money out of the deal they should have been up front and asked for a fee before even accepting the certificate. It was also wrong for them to take your certificate because if they didnt like the terms of the transaction, they should have simply given the certificate back and advised you to do business elsewhere.
>>To avoid this in the future, use BARTER and it'll never happen again.
My rebuttal
Katrenos completely misunderstood what I was saying. As much as I would like to say otherwise in light of the Ridiculous misquote that they gave me, I too intend no malice.
1. I dont skim, I never have, and I never will. I also assume that most of the other traders wouldnt skim either because it is immoral, dishonorable, bad for business in the long run, and even life threatening. This accusation was completely uncalled for and has nothing to do with what I wrote in my previous post. (Please Read Posts carefully before responding to them). This type of mindless accusation makes me very upset.
2. I appreciate and will accept ANY tip, I was simply trying to provide my idea of a good tip. I had to work my tail off for countless hours to get the trading, appraisal, and circle ranks to get a good pouch bonus, I should be entitled to some of the monetary benefits of that bonus. If I am tipped 50% of my own bonus, I would consider that a decent tip. Both parties win. The customer profits and I get compensated for the immense amount of time it took me to get to the point where I could get that bonus. However, as I said before, I will happily accept ANY tip.
3. What I do not like, is no tip at all. Although, I'll make exceptions for empaths who I will always try to refuse a tip from if Im aware that they are an empath, as well as small pouches where the bonus barely applies any signifigance anyway (and the person selling prolably needs every red cent). I will not neccessarily refuse service to non-tippers, but if I sell 10+ pouches in a row for someone, and they dont give a tip at all, THAT's when I might consider highlighting their name and refusing service in the future because they prolably made several plats off of my bonus that I (and not them) had to work hard for.
4. I dont even have a clue where Katrenos got the idea that I thought it was not neccessary to be "straight up" with people. I even suggested in my original post that if a trader required a specific fee for doing something, they should let that be known before even begginning the transaction. Tips are different when it comes to being straight up. Tips are ultimately up to the customer so it's hard to be "straight up" beyond saying "tips are appreciated" which is bordering on rude because most people always tip and by saying something like that, one is implying that they werent going to tip at all. I would certainly be annoyed if an empath said "please tip me" to me because I usually tip them at least a plat, usually more and by saying that, I would feel as if they thought that I wasent planning to tip.
From Apu's Post (and thanks for defending me, by the way):
>>...occasionally refusing to help people in the future who they feel tip poorly?
I just want to clarify that if ANY tip is given, I am happy no matter what. However, if a tip is not offered at all, and only under certain circumstances (as mentioned above), I might decide to refuse service in the future.
~Teloxius
>>That just makes my skin crawl. Since I usually tip most of the bonus anyhow (Paying for the service of selling 70 gems), you'd think I shouldn't be that upset, but I am a little. It's shady, devious (and if this was Earth, highly illegal). Do you truly not make enough money that you skim half the bonus off of the top of 1 plat pouches? Why is it necessary to not be straight up with people? And since it seems to be a somewhat-standard process, I don't buy it if you suggest you're playing an "evil" or "unscrupulous" character.
Which was in response to my post (and this is the whole thing):
>>Tips a relatively mandatory but asking "how much of a tip" after already seemingly agreeing to the transaction is just wrong, although your refusal to give a tip was equally rude. If you use our services, a tip is implied in the deal and you shouldnt seek us out if your intent is otherwise. Some traders even have a "no serve" list for those who dont tip. We usually dont learn a whole lot serving PCs and we make much better coin using the NPC trading system, so when we help you, we are only in it for the money. How much to tip? we leave that up to the customer usually, but generally I appreciate 50% of the Bonus I get for gem pouches (not 50% of the pouch), and 5% - 10% on anything else, depending on how involved the transaction is.
>>However, if this trader was that concerned about getting money out of the deal they should have been up front and asked for a fee before even accepting the certificate. It was also wrong for them to take your certificate because if they didnt like the terms of the transaction, they should have simply given the certificate back and advised you to do business elsewhere.
>>To avoid this in the future, use BARTER and it'll never happen again.
My rebuttal
Katrenos completely misunderstood what I was saying. As much as I would like to say otherwise in light of the Ridiculous misquote that they gave me, I too intend no malice.
1. I dont skim, I never have, and I never will. I also assume that most of the other traders wouldnt skim either because it is immoral, dishonorable, bad for business in the long run, and even life threatening. This accusation was completely uncalled for and has nothing to do with what I wrote in my previous post. (Please Read Posts carefully before responding to them). This type of mindless accusation makes me very upset.
2. I appreciate and will accept ANY tip, I was simply trying to provide my idea of a good tip. I had to work my tail off for countless hours to get the trading, appraisal, and circle ranks to get a good pouch bonus, I should be entitled to some of the monetary benefits of that bonus. If I am tipped 50% of my own bonus, I would consider that a decent tip. Both parties win. The customer profits and I get compensated for the immense amount of time it took me to get to the point where I could get that bonus. However, as I said before, I will happily accept ANY tip.
3. What I do not like, is no tip at all. Although, I'll make exceptions for empaths who I will always try to refuse a tip from if Im aware that they are an empath, as well as small pouches where the bonus barely applies any signifigance anyway (and the person selling prolably needs every red cent). I will not neccessarily refuse service to non-tippers, but if I sell 10+ pouches in a row for someone, and they dont give a tip at all, THAT's when I might consider highlighting their name and refusing service in the future because they prolably made several plats off of my bonus that I (and not them) had to work hard for.
4. I dont even have a clue where Katrenos got the idea that I thought it was not neccessary to be "straight up" with people. I even suggested in my original post that if a trader required a specific fee for doing something, they should let that be known before even begginning the transaction. Tips are different when it comes to being straight up. Tips are ultimately up to the customer so it's hard to be "straight up" beyond saying "tips are appreciated" which is bordering on rude because most people always tip and by saying something like that, one is implying that they werent going to tip at all. I would certainly be annoyed if an empath said "please tip me" to me because I usually tip them at least a plat, usually more and by saying that, I would feel as if they thought that I wasent planning to tip.
From Apu's Post (and thanks for defending me, by the way):
>>...occasionally refusing to help people in the future who they feel tip poorly?
I just want to clarify that if ANY tip is given, I am happy no matter what. However, if a tip is not offered at all, and only under certain circumstances (as mentioned above), I might decide to refuse service in the future.
~Teloxius
It's obvious that I read your post wrong and got riled up.
>>but generally I appreciate 50% of the Bonus I get for gem pouches (not 50% of the pouch), and 5% - 10% on anything else, depending on how involved the transaction is.
Specifically, this. I read this as "I appreciate it right off the top and into my bank account". Which is obviously wrong.
And I didn't misquote you at all. Just copy and paste. I interpreted it wrong, yes. But the quote is valid in it's entirety.
>>"tips are appreciated" which is bordering on rude because most people always tip and by saying something like that, one is implying that they werent going to tip at all.
Now that we understand I misunderstood, that's about the most polite way I've seen it asked. If the customer can wrap their head around the fact that tipping isn't "mandatory", but it's the way you should conduct business, then that's not really very rude at all.
>>I don't know where you got the idea that skimming is a 'somewhat-standard process'
I've read it on the boards from people that either suggested heavily, or outright said they did. Somewhat-standard probably gave the impression that I thought 1 out of 3 traders did it. I just meant that enough people said they did that it was more than just a handful.
~Katrenos
The bottom line here is that cursing is fun, and thats whats important. Also breaking things over peoples heads is fun. So as long as we can all argue in a way that is both fun and obscene we can all have a good time. -Sigmer
>>but generally I appreciate 50% of the Bonus I get for gem pouches (not 50% of the pouch), and 5% - 10% on anything else, depending on how involved the transaction is.
Specifically, this. I read this as "I appreciate it right off the top and into my bank account". Which is obviously wrong.
And I didn't misquote you at all. Just copy and paste. I interpreted it wrong, yes. But the quote is valid in it's entirety.
>>"tips are appreciated" which is bordering on rude because most people always tip and by saying something like that, one is implying that they werent going to tip at all.
Now that we understand I misunderstood, that's about the most polite way I've seen it asked. If the customer can wrap their head around the fact that tipping isn't "mandatory", but it's the way you should conduct business, then that's not really very rude at all.
>>I don't know where you got the idea that skimming is a 'somewhat-standard process'
I've read it on the boards from people that either suggested heavily, or outright said they did. Somewhat-standard probably gave the impression that I thought 1 out of 3 traders did it. I just meant that enough people said they did that it was more than just a handful.
~Katrenos
The bottom line here is that cursing is fun, and thats whats important. Also breaking things over peoples heads is fun. So as long as we can all argue in a way that is both fun and obscene we can all have a good time. -Sigmer
This whole thing is a joke, leyena has tried since the moment she realized the certificate was legal tender to return it.
I've known her for a long time, and her and light handfull of others are the only ones i would trust with anything.
She dosnt need your money, and she wont deliver it to your friend, if you want it ask her, she didnt move or go into hiding.
I've known her for a long time, and her and light handfull of others are the only ones i would trust with anything.
She dosnt need your money, and she wont deliver it to your friend, if you want it ask her, she didnt move or go into hiding.
Sounds like a thieves guild plot to me. trying to discredit certificates.
http://www.drtraders.net/gallery
http://www.drtraders.net/gallery
Wee, dead horse!
Skimming, and the preception of skimming, used to be a big problem in the Trader Guild, because it was causing an imbalance in the fidelity of the gem shop business. There were two main causes for customer dissatisfaction, both of which Godrich has fixed (at least to my satisfaction).
1) Young traders with poor bonuses were selling pouches for less than their base value. Customers who are, by and large, indiscriminate about who they hand their pouch off to, assumed they were getting ripped off. From 1st circle to around 25th, the bonus was shaky. Low-circle traders would camp in the gem shop and sell pouches in order to circle quickly, and many were mules of non-trader primaries who needed a gem-seller. In this case, the primary motivator is experience, not money. Now, no one can sell gem pouches until they have enough status in the guild to negotiate properly with the gem shop, and the difficulty in circling a trader to that level seems to have squelched the mule industry satisfactorily.
2) The bonuses wildly varied. Assume a 10th circle trader can break even, and a 70th circle trader can break 50-60%. A customer who is indiscriminate will find his rate of return fluxuating by a factor of a plat or more per pouch. In this case, the primary motivator is money--even on tips alone, I can make a plat in the gem shop in 20 minutes, skimming would easily double that. Apu has shown (and I grovel before thee if I get the data incorrect, I'm going from memory) that the value of the trader bonus on a pouch fluxuates by as much as 10%. For 20th-30th circle traders, hitting the low end of the scale and taking too much off the top resulted in a pouch too close to the base value.
Godrich has flattened the scale. Bonuses are now lower (At 50th I get 27%) but they're also more standard from trader to trader. A 35th circle trader may hit 23%, and a 70th circle trader may hit 33%, but the swing, along with the lack of skimming, is no longer noticable by the customer.
Why have those traders in the middle range stopped skimming? I've stated this before, but I believe it is fundamental--traders have stopped making gem selling their main interest because of the bazaar. The mules who make it to 15th to sell gems are quickly pushed to 20th to open tables. If they're higher bought mules, they just go straight to the tables. There's still a class of traders in the 15th-19th range who squat in the gem shop and are focused primarily on coin, but they're such a small group I don't believe they affect the market. The gem shop now seems to attract traders over 30th who are complacent or rich enough not to skim.
Or, it's possible that folks like Apu, Nirveli, and myself have simply won the battle, and people have stopped skimming because it's in bad taste.
- Nyken
Skimming, and the preception of skimming, used to be a big problem in the Trader Guild, because it was causing an imbalance in the fidelity of the gem shop business. There were two main causes for customer dissatisfaction, both of which Godrich has fixed (at least to my satisfaction).
1) Young traders with poor bonuses were selling pouches for less than their base value. Customers who are, by and large, indiscriminate about who they hand their pouch off to, assumed they were getting ripped off. From 1st circle to around 25th, the bonus was shaky. Low-circle traders would camp in the gem shop and sell pouches in order to circle quickly, and many were mules of non-trader primaries who needed a gem-seller. In this case, the primary motivator is experience, not money. Now, no one can sell gem pouches until they have enough status in the guild to negotiate properly with the gem shop, and the difficulty in circling a trader to that level seems to have squelched the mule industry satisfactorily.
2) The bonuses wildly varied. Assume a 10th circle trader can break even, and a 70th circle trader can break 50-60%. A customer who is indiscriminate will find his rate of return fluxuating by a factor of a plat or more per pouch. In this case, the primary motivator is money--even on tips alone, I can make a plat in the gem shop in 20 minutes, skimming would easily double that. Apu has shown (and I grovel before thee if I get the data incorrect, I'm going from memory) that the value of the trader bonus on a pouch fluxuates by as much as 10%. For 20th-30th circle traders, hitting the low end of the scale and taking too much off the top resulted in a pouch too close to the base value.
Godrich has flattened the scale. Bonuses are now lower (At 50th I get 27%) but they're also more standard from trader to trader. A 35th circle trader may hit 23%, and a 70th circle trader may hit 33%, but the swing, along with the lack of skimming, is no longer noticable by the customer.
Why have those traders in the middle range stopped skimming? I've stated this before, but I believe it is fundamental--traders have stopped making gem selling their main interest because of the bazaar. The mules who make it to 15th to sell gems are quickly pushed to 20th to open tables. If they're higher bought mules, they just go straight to the tables. There's still a class of traders in the 15th-19th range who squat in the gem shop and are focused primarily on coin, but they're such a small group I don't believe they affect the market. The gem shop now seems to attract traders over 30th who are complacent or rich enough not to skim.
Or, it's possible that folks like Apu, Nirveli, and myself have simply won the battle, and people have stopped skimming because it's in bad taste.
- Nyken
Im not going to pretend that skimming has "stopped." I am assuming that there are still some skimmers out there but I doubt that they're anywhere near a majority. I also doubt that there will ever be a time when skimming stops unless technical measures are taken against it.
Skimming, like you said is "in bad taste." It also violates trust and eventually leads to a depletion in business, making the consequences just as bad for the skimmer (and innocent traders) as they are for the customer. Most Traders realize this, and do not skim for any reason. Once the general elanthian public realizes this as well, they will stop assuming that traders skim as wide spread as they now seem to (I hope wrongfully) assume.
I think it is important for all traders concerned about the future of our guild's trust in the gem shop to voice their discontent when they find the rare traders that do skim, they ruin it for all of us.
~Teloxius
Skimming, like you said is "in bad taste." It also violates trust and eventually leads to a depletion in business, making the consequences just as bad for the skimmer (and innocent traders) as they are for the customer. Most Traders realize this, and do not skim for any reason. Once the general elanthian public realizes this as well, they will stop assuming that traders skim as wide spread as they now seem to (I hope wrongfully) assume.
I think it is important for all traders concerned about the future of our guild's trust in the gem shop to voice their discontent when they find the rare traders that do skim, they ruin it for all of us.
~Teloxius
>Apu has shown (and I grovel before thee if I get the data incorrect, I'm going from memory) that the value of the trader bonus on a pouch fluxuates by as much as 10%.
To be a bit more accurate, it should say fluctuate by +/- 10% (so the total fluctuation between the highest and lowest possible values is actually 20%)
Apu
To be a bit more accurate, it should say fluctuate by +/- 10% (so the total fluctuation between the highest and lowest possible values is actually 20%)
Apu
When I tell the person who has the gems that I offer 30% over the appraisal value for the gems they think I am cheating them. All you fuzzy wuzzy traders out there have destroyed the profits for us honest upfront traders. Hunters now think it is there right for the service and that the gains from out skills is theirs.
http://www.drtraders.net/gallery
http://www.drtraders.net/gallery
<<I have sold people certificates to help them exchange thier money. I Secure it in Lirums, charge them 1% over the fee, and they can get it redeemed by any trader at any tent. Quite a few people like it. very safe way to transport large amounts of coin. Well it used to be. >>
thats mechanics abuse
http://www.drtraders.net/gallery
thats mechanics abuse
http://www.drtraders.net/gallery
https://www.play.net/forums/messages.asp?forum=20&category=22&topic=1&message=44
that is the post on the release... Please note it says nothing about the transport of coin, in fact this quote is the reference that I assumed made it allowable.
'A secured certificate is usable at any table of any trader in any market the same as coin. Secured certificates can also be redeemed by any trader with any monger for their face value in local currency.'
added to that the cost of purchasing a certificate starts out at about the Exchange rate, and goes down fromt here based on skill, I assumed it was the trader reduction in exchange rates everyone had asked for. If indeed we are not supposed to use them in this manner I will of course stop, however I can not control what the people I sell them to do. If indeed it is wrong, I suggest that they only be redeemable for the currency in which they were purchased, which of course would mean that they could only be redeemed in the province in which they were purchased. which contradicts the quote given above. Please reference the announcement for more detail.
Thanks
that is the post on the release... Please note it says nothing about the transport of coin, in fact this quote is the reference that I assumed made it allowable.
'A secured certificate is usable at any table of any trader in any market the same as coin. Secured certificates can also be redeemed by any trader with any monger for their face value in local currency.'
added to that the cost of purchasing a certificate starts out at about the Exchange rate, and goes down fromt here based on skill, I assumed it was the trader reduction in exchange rates everyone had asked for. If indeed we are not supposed to use them in this manner I will of course stop, however I can not control what the people I sell them to do. If indeed it is wrong, I suggest that they only be redeemable for the currency in which they were purchased, which of course would mean that they could only be redeemed in the province in which they were purchased. which contradicts the quote given above. Please reference the announcement for more detail.
Thanks
>Maybe you should ask over in the thieves guild if it is?
haha funny man
they think bank accounts and RF are mech abuse, and that everyone should have to carry all thier coins on them all the time.
It is a trader system. I ask the trader GM. If he decides that it is, it will modify the way the anouncment post is written. However based on the way it is phrased, I do beleive that the transport portion is an intended feature.
However I am sure that very shortly we will know the answer of Secured Certificates being or not being a 'for fee' form of moneybelt.
somehow it seems like you do not like having stuff... Makes a guy wonder why.
haha funny man
they think bank accounts and RF are mech abuse, and that everyone should have to carry all thier coins on them all the time.
It is a trader system. I ask the trader GM. If he decides that it is, it will modify the way the anouncment post is written. However based on the way it is phrased, I do beleive that the transport portion is an intended feature.
However I am sure that very shortly we will know the answer of Secured Certificates being or not being a 'for fee' form of moneybelt.
somehow it seems like you do not like having stuff... Makes a guy wonder why.
<<The question becomes, howcome she cashed it, and did not realize it was legal tender? Is this the I'm Stupid defence?
Yes it is the stupidity defense, my own stupidity about what types of certificates there were out there. I had awareness of the type a trader assigns a percentage to and signs, giving them to customers to use at their tables. I had never seen nor heard of a certificate with a cash value assigned to it <my fault for not doing more research about all aspects of being a trader>. When I saw the certificate I asked Usodor to join me, went into the tent and offered the certificate to the monger fully expecting to be told how to redeem it or to confirm I wanted to redeem it.
<<and when she found out that instead of killing her they were going to slime her, she decided to give it back.
Let me say again, this all happened in the very early morning hours and I left and went to bed as soon as I was done talking with the GH after Gholen assisted <the GH actually came to me as I was preparing to leave the realms and gave me some information about secured certificates which was the first I was aware of their existence>. Less than 8 hours later when I woke I checked to see if Gholen and/or Usodor were awake in the lands, gwething for them to contact me when I saw that they were with the full intent of giving the coin to Usodor and apologizing for the confusion on my part. I got no response from either, and kept checking when I was able to wake that day. <I finally heard from Gholen the next day> <I have yet to hear from Usodor who gave me the certificate>
<<I doubt she needs the money, but sometimes people do things to hurt others. That is what I perceived this to be, an attempt to hurt someone she did not like. I doubt it was ever about the money, or honesty to her at all.
No I do not need nor want the coin, I never did but I also did not want to be a part of something illegal or shady. I don't even know Usodor, had never seen him before that night so how can you say I was trying to hurt someone I don't like? Anyone who knows me knows me to be kind, generous, honest, and straightforward with a reputation for wanting to help others.
So yes in this situation I was stupid about how certain things worked, I made some errors in judgement that night and tried to correct them as soon as I woke several hours later. I have been unable to wake as often as I normally would, but I always looked for Gholen and/or Usodor when I was awake to try to arrange a meet with Usodor so I could rectify the mistakes made by me. I thought this was going to be resolved in game in character, and was shocked when I was made aware of what was being said on the boards. I responded and still people believe this to be about a tip that was refused or my wish to hurt or scam others. This will be my last post regarding this situation, I have spoken with Gholen <who that night showed up after things progressed and said it was his certificate that he had asked Usodor to turn in for him> on a couple of different occassions and each time he has demanded I give him the coin and each time I have told him I would give the coin only to the person who handed me the certificate. He promised to ruin me over this and all I can do is tell the truth about what happened in my own words and let the chips fall where they may.
Leyena
P.S. I am still looking for Usodor to give him his coin, if anyone knows him or sees him please ask him to contact me. Thank you.
Yes it is the stupidity defense, my own stupidity about what types of certificates there were out there. I had awareness of the type a trader assigns a percentage to and signs, giving them to customers to use at their tables. I had never seen nor heard of a certificate with a cash value assigned to it <my fault for not doing more research about all aspects of being a trader>. When I saw the certificate I asked Usodor to join me, went into the tent and offered the certificate to the monger fully expecting to be told how to redeem it or to confirm I wanted to redeem it.
<<and when she found out that instead of killing her they were going to slime her, she decided to give it back.
Let me say again, this all happened in the very early morning hours and I left and went to bed as soon as I was done talking with the GH after Gholen assisted <the GH actually came to me as I was preparing to leave the realms and gave me some information about secured certificates which was the first I was aware of their existence>. Less than 8 hours later when I woke I checked to see if Gholen and/or Usodor were awake in the lands, gwething for them to contact me when I saw that they were with the full intent of giving the coin to Usodor and apologizing for the confusion on my part. I got no response from either, and kept checking when I was able to wake that day. <I finally heard from Gholen the next day> <I have yet to hear from Usodor who gave me the certificate>
<<I doubt she needs the money, but sometimes people do things to hurt others. That is what I perceived this to be, an attempt to hurt someone she did not like. I doubt it was ever about the money, or honesty to her at all.
No I do not need nor want the coin, I never did but I also did not want to be a part of something illegal or shady. I don't even know Usodor, had never seen him before that night so how can you say I was trying to hurt someone I don't like? Anyone who knows me knows me to be kind, generous, honest, and straightforward with a reputation for wanting to help others.
So yes in this situation I was stupid about how certain things worked, I made some errors in judgement that night and tried to correct them as soon as I woke several hours later. I have been unable to wake as often as I normally would, but I always looked for Gholen and/or Usodor when I was awake to try to arrange a meet with Usodor so I could rectify the mistakes made by me. I thought this was going to be resolved in game in character, and was shocked when I was made aware of what was being said on the boards. I responded and still people believe this to be about a tip that was refused or my wish to hurt or scam others. This will be my last post regarding this situation, I have spoken with Gholen <who that night showed up after things progressed and said it was his certificate that he had asked Usodor to turn in for him> on a couple of different occassions and each time he has demanded I give him the coin and each time I have told him I would give the coin only to the person who handed me the certificate. He promised to ruin me over this and all I can do is tell the truth about what happened in my own words and let the chips fall where they may.
Leyena
P.S. I am still looking for Usodor to give him his coin, if anyone knows him or sees him please ask him to contact me. Thank you.
>All you fuzzy wuzzy traders out there have destroyed the profits for us honest upfront traders. Hunters now think it is there right for the service and that the gains from out skills is theirs.
Oh well. It's a competitive business, if you can't compete with the offers other Traders give and still make a profit, you can always trade contracts all day.
Apu
Oh well. It's a competitive business, if you can't compete with the offers other Traders give and still make a profit, you can always trade contracts all day.
Apu
Still shoulda' shot her in the face when she gave ya tha coins out of tha principle of tha situation. Ya could have claimed it as bein an interest bearin wound for holdin tha coins hostage, least that's what I woulda done.
Then I woulda prolly taken the wheels offa her caravan. <nods solemnly>
Then I woulda prolly taken the wheels offa her caravan. <nods solemnly>
