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as long as there's some type of perception boost in the WM spellbook. As it is, whenever my WM tries to get into vipers, he has to use a MM spell <avaes runestone> to get in, and even then sometimes he can be there 20 minutes trying if he does it on his own.
You've seen life through distorted eyes;You know you had to learn;The execution of your mind;You really had to turn;,the book is read,The end begins to show,The truth is out, the lies are old, But you don't want to know - Black Sabbath
The new MoF reminds me of a Warrior Mage version of Harmony, which is very much a flashy melee combat enchante that doesn't lend well to stealth.
The fact that MoF is getting an agility bonus to aid in melee accuracy makes sense to me. This could be justified by body temperatures rising which could equivocate to a heightened adrenaline or the muscles getting warm/elastic.
I'm in the bandwagon of agility not really making sense for SuF, but that is only my opinion. Shifting earth beneath your feet do nothing to alter your body's own agility, logically.
__
~Leilond
http://www.elanthipedia.com/wiki/Leilond
http://soundsoftime.bravehost.com
The fact that MoF is getting an agility bonus to aid in melee accuracy makes sense to me. This could be justified by body temperatures rising which could equivocate to a heightened adrenaline or the muscles getting warm/elastic.
I'm in the bandwagon of agility not really making sense for SuF, but that is only my opinion. Shifting earth beneath your feet do nothing to alter your body's own agility, logically.
__
~Leilond
http://www.elanthipedia.com/wiki/Leilond
http://soundsoftime.bravehost.com
>>Because the AEG variant would be more advantageous in most scenarios. Or do you not do ranged either?
I do ranged and I plan on taking both and using them as appropriate. One is obviously aimed at being defensive while the other is aimed at offense.
I'm not sure why the defensive boost would be "more advantageous in most scenarios". But that's ok. It's alright if there are spells that not everyone wants. I have no use for rising mists, for example.
>>I guess being a pin cushion has it's advantages too.
A heavy plate wearing shielded pin cushion, sure.
I do ranged and I plan on taking both and using them as appropriate. One is obviously aimed at being defensive while the other is aimed at offense.
I'm not sure why the defensive boost would be "more advantageous in most scenarios". But that's ok. It's alright if there are spells that not everyone wants. I have no use for rising mists, for example.
>>I guess being a pin cushion has it's advantages too.
A heavy plate wearing shielded pin cushion, sure.
>>I do ranged and I plan on taking both and using them as appropriate. One is obviously aimed at being defensive while the other is aimed at offense.
So if you're just going to be standing around in the open don't you think the defensive one would be more beneficial?
>>A heavy plate wearing shielded pin cushion, sure.
We are still armor tert. Combat 3.0 or not you're not gonna be a tank just like i'm not fooling anyone by sneaking around.
>>Who's argued against adding a perception buff?
Alright let's just leave it at that then.
So if you're just going to be standing around in the open don't you think the defensive one would be more beneficial?
>>A heavy plate wearing shielded pin cushion, sure.
We are still armor tert. Combat 3.0 or not you're not gonna be a tank just like i'm not fooling anyone by sneaking around.
>>Who's argued against adding a perception buff?
Alright let's just leave it at that then.
>>Well, if TM is your best attack (which it most likely will be, given we're magic prime), then a boost to your second best attack isn't that advantageous in most scenarios, not counting training.
MoF as proposed will boost agility and melee. AeG will boost strength, stamina and shield.
How would AeG be more advantageous than MoF to attacking with TM?
MoF as proposed will boost agility and melee. AeG will boost strength, stamina and shield.
How would AeG be more advantageous than MoF to attacking with TM?
>>How would AeG be more advantageous than MoF to attacking with TM?
Because assuming that agility will no longer play a part in TM you're not gaining anything from having MOF up while you would be gaining extra protection from having AEG up. And since you can't hide, and will be sitting out in the open waiting for the other person to make their move wouldn't you prefer to have the extra protection?
Because assuming that agility will no longer play a part in TM you're not gaining anything from having MOF up while you would be gaining extra protection from having AEG up. And since you can't hide, and will be sitting out in the open waiting for the other person to make their move wouldn't you prefer to have the extra protection?
>Because assuming that agility will no longer play a part in TM you're not gaining anything from having MOF up while you would be gaining extra protection from having AEG up. And since you can't hide, and will be sitting out in the open waiting for the other person to make their move wouldn't you prefer to have the extra protection?
This.
But MoF will be useful for training. Not so much for PvP.
This.
But MoF will be useful for training. Not so much for PvP.
>>Because assuming that agility will no longer play a part in TM you're not gaining anything from having MOF up while you would be gaining extra protection from having AEG up. And since you can't hide, and will be sitting out in the open waiting for the other person to make their move wouldn't you prefer to have the extra protection?
In this exact scenario, yeah, AeG would be the better choice. But why wouldn't I want an agility and melee booster to use during the other 80-90% of my day?
In this exact scenario, yeah, AeG would be the better choice. But why wouldn't I want an agility and melee booster to use during the other 80-90% of my day?
>>Wouldn't it be more preferred to make the spell useful for both PvP and PvE?
Not under magic 3.0 where we have to pay in slots for effects in spells.
It's more beneficial to everyone involved to split out the effects into separate spells so that each player can choose the parts they actually want.
Not under magic 3.0 where we have to pay in slots for effects in spells.
It's more beneficial to everyone involved to split out the effects into separate spells so that each player can choose the parts they actually want.
>Just a suggestion, since i'm assuming that hiding while engulfed in flames will still be almost impossible
You assume wrong, actually. I'm not going to bother adding hiding penalties to the bazillion spells that make you glow in ways that are utterly contrary to normal stealth. So I'm taking it out of MoF.
-Z
You assume wrong, actually. I'm not going to bother adding hiding penalties to the bazillion spells that make you glow in ways that are utterly contrary to normal stealth. So I'm taking it out of MoF.
-Z
I'm with Mord on this. While having better balance and footing (SUF) would seem more likely to give you better agility in combat than being surrounded by flames. Perception boost does make more sense in MOF since it will be giving out light in all directions.
This spell would be 10x more useful if we could drop it, in fact a lot of our spells would be better if we could choose to drop them IE DB BG RM etc... I can see not having the ability or knowledge of interrupting a elemental pattern at a lower circle, but as a mage becomes more experienced i can't see why one wouldn't be able to control the elements enough to stop them at will. Not necessarily snapping my fingers and ending a spell but mastering the elements enough to be able to use elements against each other to counter act, or build on a spell depending on how the elements react . The spell synergy has always been extremely useful in combat, more so in training. I always saw it as being one of the major benefits of being a WM.
Even with all that, I'm excited about most of the spell rewrites. Any rough estimates on when magic and combat will go live?
- Erixx
This spell would be 10x more useful if we could drop it, in fact a lot of our spells would be better if we could choose to drop them IE DB BG RM etc... I can see not having the ability or knowledge of interrupting a elemental pattern at a lower circle, but as a mage becomes more experienced i can't see why one wouldn't be able to control the elements enough to stop them at will. Not necessarily snapping my fingers and ending a spell but mastering the elements enough to be able to use elements against each other to counter act, or build on a spell depending on how the elements react . The spell synergy has always been extremely useful in combat, more so in training. I always saw it as being one of the major benefits of being a WM.
Even with all that, I'm excited about most of the spell rewrites. Any rough estimates on when magic and combat will go live?
- Erixx
PLEASE stop skimming if you're going to post your fears.
>>on top of that you lose the ability to do damage with shockwave while MOF is on.
According to the GM post, New Shockwave looks like it will be a targeted AoE with impact damage and knockback, plus optional fire damage if you want to use that instead of impact. No interaction with any buffs.
>>This spell would be 10x more useful if we could drop it, in fact a lot of our spells would be better if we could choose to drop them
As someone mentioned one or two pages back, there is an analogous patterns spell planned that will instantly dispell anything you've cast on yourself.
>>on top of that you lose the ability to do damage with shockwave while MOF is on.
According to the GM post, New Shockwave looks like it will be a targeted AoE with impact damage and knockback, plus optional fire damage if you want to use that instead of impact. No interaction with any buffs.
>>This spell would be 10x more useful if we could drop it, in fact a lot of our spells would be better if we could choose to drop them
As someone mentioned one or two pages back, there is an analogous patterns spell planned that will instantly dispell anything you've cast on yourself.
>I'm guessing it's this:
>All Forums
>|-DragonRealms
>|-|-The Warrior Mages
The fact that you are all being civil and mostly constructive even when a little confused is about the only saving grace of having to read today's thread. ;-)
Carry on with the discussing!
Wordan
DragonRealms Board Monitor
If you have questions or comments, please email me at MOD-Wordan@play.net or Senior Board Monitor Sidatura at (DR-Sidatura@play.net) or Message Board Supervisor Annwyl (DR-Annwyl@play.net).
>All Forums
>|-DragonRealms
>|-|-The Warrior Mages
The fact that you are all being civil and mostly constructive even when a little confused is about the only saving grace of having to read today's thread. ;-)
Carry on with the discussing!
Wordan
DragonRealms Board Monitor
If you have questions or comments, please email me at MOD-Wordan@play.net or Senior Board Monitor Sidatura at (DR-Sidatura@play.net) or Message Board Supervisor Annwyl (DR-Annwyl@play.net).
>>You assume wrong, actually. I'm not going to bother adding hiding penalties to the bazillion spells that make you glow in ways that are utterly contrary to normal stealth. So I'm taking it out of MoF.
Noone ever thinks to look in the roaring fire, perfect hiding spot. or in crowded areas I cast stone seat and hide behind it.
....
so assuming things go as planned... what kind of room does this leave us for future spell that haven't been thought of yet?
I understand AP's will be opened up more. Not sure if I'd want a self despell, maybe if there was a version I could cast on others. But would like AC's anti-fam/locate ability be like a general AP ward? or is stuff like that going away?
Oh and the geyser spell, heavy impact sounds cool, but it needs a better name. Right now it invokes a magic bidet. Scarey yes, but still...
I know you mentioned you'd get to pathways later, but I'm hoping you keep barrage around in some form. Brawling would be nice if it does...
I'm hoping there's a little lore to come out of this. Either some side stuff that maybe introduces a new spell and ignores the shift in all the spells, or someone like the True Path shows up and teaches us alternate ways of using the elements(like nonguilded elementalists from west of the barrier, nonguilded clans or naturally talented mages, Gorbesh, etc.) that's not necessarily based on leftovers from the Empire Imperial College or the current guild stucture... course i'm always asking for WM lore. the alternative magic theory stuff has been good though.
_________________________________
An old cranky ogre with no legs says, "Naarg wives all this Naarg wives now."
Noone ever thinks to look in the roaring fire, perfect hiding spot. or in crowded areas I cast stone seat and hide behind it.
....
so assuming things go as planned... what kind of room does this leave us for future spell that haven't been thought of yet?
I understand AP's will be opened up more. Not sure if I'd want a self despell, maybe if there was a version I could cast on others. But would like AC's anti-fam/locate ability be like a general AP ward? or is stuff like that going away?
Oh and the geyser spell, heavy impact sounds cool, but it needs a better name. Right now it invokes a magic bidet. Scarey yes, but still...
I know you mentioned you'd get to pathways later, but I'm hoping you keep barrage around in some form. Brawling would be nice if it does...
I'm hoping there's a little lore to come out of this. Either some side stuff that maybe introduces a new spell and ignores the shift in all the spells, or someone like the True Path shows up and teaches us alternate ways of using the elements(like nonguilded elementalists from west of the barrier, nonguilded clans or naturally talented mages, Gorbesh, etc.) that's not necessarily based on leftovers from the Empire Imperial College or the current guild stucture... course i'm always asking for WM lore. the alternative magic theory stuff has been good though.
_________________________________
An old cranky ogre with no legs says, "Naarg wives all this Naarg wives now."
>>You assume wrong, actually. I'm not going to bother adding hiding penalties to the bazillion spells that make you glow in ways that are utterly contrary to normal stealth. So I'm taking it out of MoF.
Nice.
>>As someone mentioned one or two pages back, there is an analogous patterns spell planned that will instantly dispell anything you've cast on yourself.
That seems more likely to drop ALL spells not using one spell to cancel out another. Just the simple stuff like using Zephry to blow away rising mist or frost bite to drop my own MOF or Rising mist. It's not a huge change and not really a big deal but its definitely a flavor I will miss having in the guild.
- Erixx
Nice.
>>As someone mentioned one or two pages back, there is an analogous patterns spell planned that will instantly dispell anything you've cast on yourself.
That seems more likely to drop ALL spells not using one spell to cancel out another. Just the simple stuff like using Zephry to blow away rising mist or frost bite to drop my own MOF or Rising mist. It's not a huge change and not really a big deal but its definitely a flavor I will miss having in the guild.
- Erixx
>>You assume wrong, actually. I'm not going to bother adding hiding penalties to the bazillion spells that make you glow in ways that are utterly contrary to normal stealth.
I think it'd be cool to see MoF castable on an opponent for a decent debuff to their hiding/stalking, and perhaps some kind of evasion/reflex penalty. Maybe some vitality drain or wound damage over time?
With present combat it wouldn't be too helpful since the WM would get one-shot from a good hider before casting. But assuming first-strike is no longer as deadly with new combat I can see MoF being effective if made that way.
Individuals, families, countries, continents are destroyed at the heavy hand of Vinjince.
-GM Abasha
I think it'd be cool to see MoF castable on an opponent for a decent debuff to their hiding/stalking, and perhaps some kind of evasion/reflex penalty. Maybe some vitality drain or wound damage over time?
With present combat it wouldn't be too helpful since the WM would get one-shot from a good hider before casting. But assuming first-strike is no longer as deadly with new combat I can see MoF being effective if made that way.
Individuals, families, countries, continents are destroyed at the heavy hand of Vinjince.
-GM Abasha
Ah, seems I found the answer to the anti-locate ward. Yes there probably will be it seems.
And for those that don't know, might wanna look over at the moonie and necro folders to see their lists, and get a gist of what the other guilds may look like.
_________________________________
An old cranky ogre with no legs says, "Naarg wives all this Naarg wives now."
And for those that don't know, might wanna look over at the moonie and necro folders to see their lists, and get a gist of what the other guilds may look like.
_________________________________
An old cranky ogre with no legs says, "Naarg wives all this Naarg wives now."
Aside to elemental weapons...
I kind of hope we don't end up making things like 'air bows' and 'fire swords' by default. That we make novel and slighty nonsensical weapons like scythes and fists is a nice break from the formula of generic fantasy elemental magic you see everywhere.
The more modular these spells become, the more it seems like they're going to tend to the generic, and I can play the generic for cheaper.
"Magic has rules and so does posting on these forums." -Annwyl
I kind of hope we don't end up making things like 'air bows' and 'fire swords' by default. That we make novel and slighty nonsensical weapons like scythes and fists is a nice break from the formula of generic fantasy elemental magic you see everywhere.
The more modular these spells become, the more it seems like they're going to tend to the generic, and I can play the generic for cheaper.
"Magic has rules and so does posting on these forums." -Annwyl
>I'm not going to bother adding hiding penalties to the bazillion spells that make you glow in ways that are utterly contrary to normal stealth. So I'm taking it out of MoF.
Why on earth not. Surely now while you are in the middle of this massive change in the way DR works this is the ideal time to do exactly that ?
All I am is who I am, you can work it out for yourself.
Why on earth not. Surely now while you are in the middle of this massive change in the way DR works this is the ideal time to do exactly that ?
All I am is who I am, you can work it out for yourself.
>>Why on earth not. Surely now while you are in the middle of this massive change in the way DR works this is the ideal time to do exactly that ?
>Because it would be stupid?
More diplomatically put, it would pretty much fall under poor game design and we'd have to instead rework all the spells to be non-flashy and unimpressive looking.
-Z
>Because it would be stupid?
More diplomatically put, it would pretty much fall under poor game design and we'd have to instead rework all the spells to be non-flashy and unimpressive looking.
-Z
Zeyurn,
You've said no to a perception buff, which I can't understand why you'd flat out say that. Instead, can we compromise?
With Mantle of Flame transformation, make it harder for people to HIDE around us, especially with matters concerning the approach to melee range.
Which would be worse? To live as a monster or to die as a good man?
You've said no to a perception buff, which I can't understand why you'd flat out say that. Instead, can we compromise?
With Mantle of Flame transformation, make it harder for people to HIDE around us, especially with matters concerning the approach to melee range.
Which would be worse? To live as a monster or to die as a good man?
lol
"Can I have a spell that buffs Evasion?"
"No."
"Ok, can I have a spell that makes it harder for everyone to hit me then?"
__
~Leilond
http://www.elanthipedia.com/wiki/Leilond
http://soundsoftime.bravehost.com
"Can I have a spell that buffs Evasion?"
"No."
"Ok, can I have a spell that makes it harder for everyone to hit me then?"
__
~Leilond
http://www.elanthipedia.com/wiki/Leilond
http://soundsoftime.bravehost.com
>>With Mantle of Flame transformation, make it harder for people to HIDE around us, especially with matters concerning the approach to melee range.
I'm not Zeyurn, but I don't see why you being a living fire-being would make it harder for anybody to hide around you, under the new paradigm being established. They've already said that being a walking mass of fire will not hinder your own ability to hide. That is pretty solid reasoning to believe that the amount of light present in an area has nothing to do with ability to hide. I really like this change, as it makes stealth into much more of the supernatural ability it's been described as for a while now, and not simply slipping into errant shadows and ducking behind boxes or something.
I have no feelings in any direction, about WMs getting a stealth buff or debuff or perception buff or debuff, I just don't think that "I'm on fire" makes sense as an automatic debuff to the supernatural stealth ability of anybody around you.
Ogdaro
I'm not Zeyurn, but I don't see why you being a living fire-being would make it harder for anybody to hide around you, under the new paradigm being established. They've already said that being a walking mass of fire will not hinder your own ability to hide. That is pretty solid reasoning to believe that the amount of light present in an area has nothing to do with ability to hide. I really like this change, as it makes stealth into much more of the supernatural ability it's been described as for a while now, and not simply slipping into errant shadows and ducking behind boxes or something.
I have no feelings in any direction, about WMs getting a stealth buff or debuff or perception buff or debuff, I just don't think that "I'm on fire" makes sense as an automatic debuff to the supernatural stealth ability of anybody around you.
Ogdaro
