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Especially after reading through this thread, I can see that I've made some poor training choices considering armor and was hoping for some personalized advice regarding my situation.
My War Mage, a human, enjoys melee combat, and really has no ambitions towards stealth in any way. He's at around 36 in all of his stats, and has already trained about 240 ranks of LC. I'm seeing now that Heavy Plate would have been a much better choice and have begun the backtraining process.
Now, I'm not incredibly concerned with training armors as a TDP source, but am not neglecting this aspect completly. I guess I'm wondering if I should mix my LC and HP, consdering I already have the 240 ranks LC, or just got all out Heavy Plate. I will say that my Shield Usage is signifacantly lower than all my other defenses, and even though I'm trying to remedy this problem, I can't imagine it ever really getting to where my parry/evasion are.
Just get HP accessories: Sure they will hit you with a stealth penalty. But that will train your HP up until you feel comfortable with it. It works like a charm for me.
Ryeka
Sometimes the key to happiness is not assuming it is locked in the first place- Ziggy
A journey of a thousand SMILES begins with a single step- Ziggy
Ryeka
Sometimes the key to happiness is not assuming it is locked in the first place- Ziggy
A journey of a thousand SMILES begins with a single step- Ziggy
Shield offers something parry can't give. Just lock it up every chance you get and it will eventually get there.
I use HC/HP. I had 150 HC when I picked up HP and now my HP is 170 and my HC is just over 200ish. I've skipped around armors quite a bit and haven't felt much negative impact from it. Skills get a learning bonus until 100? 120? ranks anyways. I'd recommend a good forged HP helm (and maybe gauntlets) with your LC body armor. With just my helm I can still ML both armor skills without a problem. Good luck!
http://www.drplat.com - The DragonRealms Platimum Community Website. Be sure to vote DragonRealms as your #1 MUD!
I use HC/HP. I had 150 HC when I picked up HP and now my HP is 170 and my HC is just over 200ish. I've skipped around armors quite a bit and haven't felt much negative impact from it. Skills get a learning bonus until 100? 120? ranks anyways. I'd recommend a good forged HP helm (and maybe gauntlets) with your LC body armor. With just my helm I can still ML both armor skills without a problem. Good luck!
http://www.drplat.com - The DragonRealms Platimum Community Website. Be sure to vote DragonRealms as your #1 MUD!
I was/am in the same boat as you. I started with LC and picked up HP a couple hundred ranks in. My HP will never be equal to my LC, even though I use it as torso armor, but I don't mind- that just means I am training BOTH LC and HP (and also the other two metal armors, actually) optimally, keeping them locked in combat.
My shield is also lower than both my evasion and parry. I think this is inevitable, since we learn parry at a secondary rate and evasion gets learned during all defensive training. It isn't a problem though- I can work shield just fine with the engagement cap of the critters I'm in.
Don't think about your skills in relative terms (I have to catch X skills up to Y skill; I have such good skills for my level, etc.). The only thing that matters is absolute skill. How high is your TM? How high is your evasion? How good are your stats? Maximize learning of as many relevant skills as you can.
-Sephos
My shield is also lower than both my evasion and parry. I think this is inevitable, since we learn parry at a secondary rate and evasion gets learned during all defensive training. It isn't a problem though- I can work shield just fine with the engagement cap of the critters I'm in.
Don't think about your skills in relative terms (I have to catch X skills up to Y skill; I have such good skills for my level, etc.). The only thing that matters is absolute skill. How high is your TM? How high is your evasion? How good are your stats? Maximize learning of as many relevant skills as you can.
-Sephos
>Especially after reading through this thread, I can see that I've made some poor training choices considering armor and was hoping for some personalized advice regarding my situation.
My War Mage, a human, enjoys melee combat, and really has no ambitions towards stealth in any way. He's at around 36 in all of his stats, and has already trained about 240 ranks of LC. I'm seeing now that Heavy Plate would have been a much better choice and have begun the backtraining process.
Yes that is a classic mistake a LOT of us have made. Back when I was young and foolish I did LC and LP of all things. Why? Simply because I had a set of Lion Gauntlets which are LP and I HAD to use them and they were LP. Took a LONG while to realize my mistake as I hardly ever used to read the boards for the first 5 years of my DP playing career. When I did I was aghast to realize just how crappy my selection was due to the increased hinderance from mixing Plate and Chain not to mention the fact that LP is utterly useless other than Hand/leg armor. Tought about going all LP and was dismaly disappointed in Torso and head protection with even the best forged LP. LC has better protection for those areas over LP... thats just WRONG. Tought of going all LC... than saw what kind of protection forged HP has to offer :drool: Looked at same for forged LP accessories and realized that was the way to go. LP accessories with HP body and head.
I came to this conclusion whith over 220 ranks in LC 202 ranks in LP 0 ranks in HP... Took quite a few months but I was eventually able to phase out LC and now wear only LP and HP. As someone before said try and wear HP only as a accesory (stay away from head gear until at least 150 in HP) armor until you hit 150 ranks of it. Than and only than you can switch it to body protection.
The fast way to do it would be to pick up a set of HP along with 3 to 5 new weapons and backtrain every time you log in for a good bit. If you are apt to circle chasing you will chafe at this if you just play for the fun and RP of it this has it's benefits long term. If you are circle chasing try having LC shirt, head and gloves with only HP greaves. You will learn VERY quickly for the first 50 ranks even with just the greaves. As the experience slows down add HP gauntlets and once you reach 150 ranks either switch the body to HP or keep a LC shirt with HP accessories in all three slots. Obviously you want to phase out LC fully down the road to avoid the penalty of mixing Chain with Plate this will be painful for a GOOD long time. I speak from experience as now I have 190 in plate and still get bonked on the head by Adnaf HARD every now and than as a result as that is not quite enough armor to hunt those despite the fact that they are for me optimal hunting at level for my parry/evasion/shield/magic.
Another thing you MAY want to consider is starting up LP at the same time you start HP as there is NO penalty for mixing those and while you are not doing armors for TDPs would be a crime to just throw out this type of eze GIMI TDP.
My War Mage, a human, enjoys melee combat, and really has no ambitions towards stealth in any way. He's at around 36 in all of his stats, and has already trained about 240 ranks of LC. I'm seeing now that Heavy Plate would have been a much better choice and have begun the backtraining process.
Yes that is a classic mistake a LOT of us have made. Back when I was young and foolish I did LC and LP of all things. Why? Simply because I had a set of Lion Gauntlets which are LP and I HAD to use them and they were LP. Took a LONG while to realize my mistake as I hardly ever used to read the boards for the first 5 years of my DP playing career. When I did I was aghast to realize just how crappy my selection was due to the increased hinderance from mixing Plate and Chain not to mention the fact that LP is utterly useless other than Hand/leg armor. Tought about going all LP and was dismaly disappointed in Torso and head protection with even the best forged LP. LC has better protection for those areas over LP... thats just WRONG. Tought of going all LC... than saw what kind of protection forged HP has to offer :drool: Looked at same for forged LP accessories and realized that was the way to go. LP accessories with HP body and head.
I came to this conclusion whith over 220 ranks in LC 202 ranks in LP 0 ranks in HP... Took quite a few months but I was eventually able to phase out LC and now wear only LP and HP. As someone before said try and wear HP only as a accesory (stay away from head gear until at least 150 in HP) armor until you hit 150 ranks of it. Than and only than you can switch it to body protection.
The fast way to do it would be to pick up a set of HP along with 3 to 5 new weapons and backtrain every time you log in for a good bit. If you are apt to circle chasing you will chafe at this if you just play for the fun and RP of it this has it's benefits long term. If you are circle chasing try having LC shirt, head and gloves with only HP greaves. You will learn VERY quickly for the first 50 ranks even with just the greaves. As the experience slows down add HP gauntlets and once you reach 150 ranks either switch the body to HP or keep a LC shirt with HP accessories in all three slots. Obviously you want to phase out LC fully down the road to avoid the penalty of mixing Chain with Plate this will be painful for a GOOD long time. I speak from experience as now I have 190 in plate and still get bonked on the head by Adnaf HARD every now and than as a result as that is not quite enough armor to hunt those despite the fact that they are for me optimal hunting at level for my parry/evasion/shield/magic.
Another thing you MAY want to consider is starting up LP at the same time you start HP as there is NO penalty for mixing those and while you are not doing armors for TDPs would be a crime to just throw out this type of eze GIMI TDP.
>My War Mage, a human, enjoys melee combat, and really has no ambitions towards stealth in any way.
Tropicalo has proven beyond ANY doubt that learning Hidding/Stalking is a non issue for a war mage even one wearing plate.
After I switched from LC to HP/LP set up I had a good long cry about the death of my stealth learning skills (self imagined death) and for nearly a year I stopped training them. Than I found out that a stunned target requires roughly half the Hidding ranks to hide on that you would need otherwise need. Add RM (rising mist) to the mix and WMs can hidde on critters with minimal ranks of hidding and still learn regardless of penalties from armor.
Either Shockweave or SD can keep you learning Hidding/Stalking eze. Throw in RM and you will be learning stealth for EVER even if your hidding/stalking ranks are well below what you hunt. To illustrate I lock Hidding/Stalking in Adnaf wearing HP/LP with ease with just 170hidding and 160 in stalking. Simple sequence I use is each Adnaf I engage I make sure I got them on me in meele 2 to 3 for a big EXP gain or even 1 for a nice bump. Prep RP cast it. While I wait for the mists to thicken I prep SD. When they do I cast SD retreat to Pole advance and hide, when my RT clears from the hidding I stalk (for optimal stalkg exp stalk either at pole or better yet if you can at meele). I have NO problem doing this even while holding a LARGE shield AND wearing the aformentioned plate with those ranks in hidding/stalking.
Tropicalo has proven beyond ANY doubt that learning Hidding/Stalking is a non issue for a war mage even one wearing plate.
After I switched from LC to HP/LP set up I had a good long cry about the death of my stealth learning skills (self imagined death) and for nearly a year I stopped training them. Than I found out that a stunned target requires roughly half the Hidding ranks to hide on that you would need otherwise need. Add RM (rising mist) to the mix and WMs can hidde on critters with minimal ranks of hidding and still learn regardless of penalties from armor.
Either Shockweave or SD can keep you learning Hidding/Stalking eze. Throw in RM and you will be learning stealth for EVER even if your hidding/stalking ranks are well below what you hunt. To illustrate I lock Hidding/Stalking in Adnaf wearing HP/LP with ease with just 170hidding and 160 in stalking. Simple sequence I use is each Adnaf I engage I make sure I got them on me in meele 2 to 3 for a big EXP gain or even 1 for a nice bump. Prep RP cast it. While I wait for the mists to thicken I prep SD. When they do I cast SD retreat to Pole advance and hide, when my RT clears from the hidding I stalk (for optimal stalkg exp stalk either at pole or better yet if you can at meele). I have NO problem doing this even while holding a LARGE shield AND wearing the aformentioned plate with those ranks in hidding/stalking.
Wow, thanks for all the input! I ended up getting a set forged, HP gauntlets and halfplate, and LP Helm and greaves. I can't stand backtraining completely so I wrote a script to quickly switch armors. I'll spend a few moments in sand sprites locking my new armors, then switch back to LC and hunt Dobeks until my HP and LP are back to concentrating. It seems to be working great for now! I'm already at about 70 ranks in HP/LP.
>HP gauntlets and halfplate, and LP Helm and greaves
If you want optimal HP/LP set up avoid using LP for head protection. Get a forged HP helm and compare it to a LP helm you will see what I mean. Forged LP head gear SUX yes with capital S and U and X. It is worst than store bought LC belive me.
Optimal set up for LP/HP is LP Gauntlets and Greaves forged both of which provide real good protection with a HP Helm and Half Plate forged. 380 stone Half plate to be exact real nice.
If you want optimal HP/LP set up avoid using LP for head protection. Get a forged HP helm and compare it to a LP helm you will see what I mean. Forged LP head gear SUX yes with capital S and U and X. It is worst than store bought LC belive me.
Optimal set up for LP/HP is LP Gauntlets and Greaves forged both of which provide real good protection with a HP Helm and Half Plate forged. 380 stone Half plate to be exact real nice.
>Forged LP headgear can hit insignificant hindrance though.
To demonstrate why forged HP is better than forged LP helm ANY day and than some.
The armet helm is light plate.
The helm looks like it offers protection for the following areas:
head
neck
right eye
left eye
You feel certain that an armet helm appears to impose insignificant maneuvering hindrance and offers:
moderate protection and good damage absorption for puncture attacks.
good protection and good damage absorption for slice attacks.
low protection and good damage absorption for impact attacks.
good protection and moderate damage absorption for fire attacks.
moderate protection and moderate damage absorption for cold attacks.
poor protection and moderate damage absorption for electrical attacks.
If you were only maneuvering in an armet helm you could expect to be unhindered.
You are certain that the armet helm is fairly sturdy, and is in pristine condition.
The armet helm is made with metal.
You think it is likely that the armet helm weighs around 100 stones.
You are certain that the armet helm is worth exactly 180 dokoras.
The great helm is heavy plate.
The helm looks like it offers protection for the following areas:
head
neck
right eye
left eye
You feel certain that a great helm appears to impose light maneuvering hindrance and offers:
high protection and high damage absorption for puncture attacks.
high protection and high damage absorption for slice attacks.
moderate protection and high damage absorption for impact attacks.
good protection and high damage absorption for fire attacks.
moderate protection and high damage absorption for cold attacks.
poor protection and high damage absorption for electrical attacks.
If you were only maneuvering in a great helm you would be unhindered.
But considering all the armor and shields you are wearing or carrying, you are currently lightly hindered.
You are certain that the great helm is moderately strong, and is in pristine condition.
The great helm is made with metal.
You wonder if the great helm might weigh a few hundred stones.
You are certain that the great helm is worth exactly 451 dokoras.
With a good YS up that light hinderance won't matter much. But the massive protection difference will.
Trust me. Just go with HP forged Helm and Half plate and LP forged Gauntlets and Greaves. Here is apprial of what I wear of same set up.
you have the HP helm above.
The half plate is heavy plate.
The plate looks like it offers protection for the following areas:
right arm
left arm
chest
abdomen
back
You feel certain that some half plate appears to impose moderate maneuvering hindrance and offers:
high protection and great damage absorption for puncture attacks.
high protection and great damage absorption for slice attacks.
moderate protection and great damage absorption for impact attacks.
good protection and high damage absorption for fire attacks.
moderate protection and high damage absorption for cold attacks.
poor protection and high damage absorption for electrical attacks.
If you were only maneuvering in some half plate you would be insignificantly hindered.
But considering all the armor and shields you are wearing or carrying, you are currently lightly hindered.
You are certain that the half plate is fairly sturdy, and is in pristine condition.
The half plate is made with metal.
You are certain that the half plate weighs exactly 380 stones.
You are certain that the half plate is worth exactly 2706 dokoras.
The gauntlets are light plate.
The gauntlets look like they offer protection for the following areas:
right hand
left hand
You feel certain that some gauntlets appear to impose insignificant maneuvering hindrance and offers:
high protection and high damage absorption for puncture attacks.
high protection and high damage absorption for slice attacks.
moderate protection and high damage absorption for impact attacks.
good protection and high damage absorption for fire attacks.
moderate protection and high damage absorption for cold attacks.
poor protection and high damage absorption for electrical attacks.
If you were only maneuvering in some gauntlets you would be unhindered.
But considering all the armor and shields you are wearing or carrying, you are currently lightly hindered.
You are certain that the gauntlets are moderately strong, and are in pristine condition.
The gauntlets are made with metal.
You guess that the gauntlets probably weighs several tens of stones.
You are certain that the gauntlets are worth exactly 135 dokoras.
The plate greaves are light plate.
The greaves look like they offer protection for the following areas:
right leg
left leg
You feel certain that some plate greaves appear to impose insignificant maneuvering hindrance and offers:
high protection and high damage absorption for puncture attacks.
high protection and high damage absorption for slice attacks.
moderate protection and high damage absorption for impact attacks.
good protection and high damage absorption for fire attacks.
moderate protection and high damage absorption for cold attacks.
poor protection and high damage absorption for electrical attacks.
If you were only maneuvering in some plate greaves you would be unhindered.
But considering all the armor and shields you are wearing or carrying, you are currently lightly hindered.
You are certain that the plate greaves are very strong, and are in pristine condition.
The plate greaves are made with metal.
You believe that the plate greaves weighs around 105 stones.
You are certain that the plate greaves are worth exactly 162 dokoras.
For the most part all my body pieces are protected with H/H and even H/G and G/G, with Light hinderance and my HP is not even at 200 yet.
To demonstrate why forged HP is better than forged LP helm ANY day and than some.
The armet helm is light plate.
The helm looks like it offers protection for the following areas:
head
neck
right eye
left eye
You feel certain that an armet helm appears to impose insignificant maneuvering hindrance and offers:
moderate protection and good damage absorption for puncture attacks.
good protection and good damage absorption for slice attacks.
low protection and good damage absorption for impact attacks.
good protection and moderate damage absorption for fire attacks.
moderate protection and moderate damage absorption for cold attacks.
poor protection and moderate damage absorption for electrical attacks.
If you were only maneuvering in an armet helm you could expect to be unhindered.
You are certain that the armet helm is fairly sturdy, and is in pristine condition.
The armet helm is made with metal.
You think it is likely that the armet helm weighs around 100 stones.
You are certain that the armet helm is worth exactly 180 dokoras.
The great helm is heavy plate.
The helm looks like it offers protection for the following areas:
head
neck
right eye
left eye
You feel certain that a great helm appears to impose light maneuvering hindrance and offers:
high protection and high damage absorption for puncture attacks.
high protection and high damage absorption for slice attacks.
moderate protection and high damage absorption for impact attacks.
good protection and high damage absorption for fire attacks.
moderate protection and high damage absorption for cold attacks.
poor protection and high damage absorption for electrical attacks.
If you were only maneuvering in a great helm you would be unhindered.
But considering all the armor and shields you are wearing or carrying, you are currently lightly hindered.
You are certain that the great helm is moderately strong, and is in pristine condition.
The great helm is made with metal.
You wonder if the great helm might weigh a few hundred stones.
You are certain that the great helm is worth exactly 451 dokoras.
With a good YS up that light hinderance won't matter much. But the massive protection difference will.
Trust me. Just go with HP forged Helm and Half plate and LP forged Gauntlets and Greaves. Here is apprial of what I wear of same set up.
you have the HP helm above.
The half plate is heavy plate.
The plate looks like it offers protection for the following areas:
right arm
left arm
chest
abdomen
back
You feel certain that some half plate appears to impose moderate maneuvering hindrance and offers:
high protection and great damage absorption for puncture attacks.
high protection and great damage absorption for slice attacks.
moderate protection and great damage absorption for impact attacks.
good protection and high damage absorption for fire attacks.
moderate protection and high damage absorption for cold attacks.
poor protection and high damage absorption for electrical attacks.
If you were only maneuvering in some half plate you would be insignificantly hindered.
But considering all the armor and shields you are wearing or carrying, you are currently lightly hindered.
You are certain that the half plate is fairly sturdy, and is in pristine condition.
The half plate is made with metal.
You are certain that the half plate weighs exactly 380 stones.
You are certain that the half plate is worth exactly 2706 dokoras.
The gauntlets are light plate.
The gauntlets look like they offer protection for the following areas:
right hand
left hand
You feel certain that some gauntlets appear to impose insignificant maneuvering hindrance and offers:
high protection and high damage absorption for puncture attacks.
high protection and high damage absorption for slice attacks.
moderate protection and high damage absorption for impact attacks.
good protection and high damage absorption for fire attacks.
moderate protection and high damage absorption for cold attacks.
poor protection and high damage absorption for electrical attacks.
If you were only maneuvering in some gauntlets you would be unhindered.
But considering all the armor and shields you are wearing or carrying, you are currently lightly hindered.
You are certain that the gauntlets are moderately strong, and are in pristine condition.
The gauntlets are made with metal.
You guess that the gauntlets probably weighs several tens of stones.
You are certain that the gauntlets are worth exactly 135 dokoras.
The plate greaves are light plate.
The greaves look like they offer protection for the following areas:
right leg
left leg
You feel certain that some plate greaves appear to impose insignificant maneuvering hindrance and offers:
high protection and high damage absorption for puncture attacks.
high protection and high damage absorption for slice attacks.
moderate protection and high damage absorption for impact attacks.
good protection and high damage absorption for fire attacks.
moderate protection and high damage absorption for cold attacks.
poor protection and high damage absorption for electrical attacks.
If you were only maneuvering in some plate greaves you would be unhindered.
But considering all the armor and shields you are wearing or carrying, you are currently lightly hindered.
You are certain that the plate greaves are very strong, and are in pristine condition.
The plate greaves are made with metal.
You believe that the plate greaves weighs around 105 stones.
You are certain that the plate greaves are worth exactly 162 dokoras.
For the most part all my body pieces are protected with H/H and even H/G and G/G, with Light hinderance and my HP is not even at 200 yet.
>>Tropicalo has proven beyond ANY doubt that learning Hidding/Stalking is a non issue for a war mage even one wearing plate.
Just an FYI, this is slated for a change. They are going to divorce stealth mechanics from base hindrance.
Warrior Mages being the best plate-wearers besides Paladins is fanciful enough; having them be the best at training stealth in the heaviest armor in the game (both of which are tertiary skills for them) is quite too much. That's just my opinion, but yes the aforementioned changed will most likely eliminate the ability to effectively train hiding while wearing plate.
*******
Doctor: Are you Alliance?
Early: Am I lion? Huh. I don't think of myself as a lion. But you might as well have a mighty roar!
Just an FYI, this is slated for a change. They are going to divorce stealth mechanics from base hindrance.
Warrior Mages being the best plate-wearers besides Paladins is fanciful enough; having them be the best at training stealth in the heaviest armor in the game (both of which are tertiary skills for them) is quite too much. That's just my opinion, but yes the aforementioned changed will most likely eliminate the ability to effectively train hiding while wearing plate.
*******
Doctor: Are you Alliance?
Early: Am I lion? Huh. I don't think of myself as a lion. But you might as well have a mighty roar!
>Warrior Mages being the best plate-wearers besides Paladins is fanciful enough; having them be the best at training stealth in the heaviest armor in the game (both of which are tertiary skills for them) is quite too much. That's just my opinion, but yes the aforementioned changed will most likely eliminate the ability to effectively train hiding while wearing plate.
Hmm... welllll aren't you a bit of rain on a sunny day?
I hope:
One they delay this change for the standand DR duration of time things take to get done so I can pick up as many ranks of stealth as I can meanwhile.
Two they don,t make it impossible to hide in plate. If they don't being able to use Rising Mists and stunn your target at will should still allow us to train stealth wearing plate regardless.
Hmm... welllll aren't you a bit of rain on a sunny day?
I hope:
One they delay this change for the standand DR duration of time things take to get done so I can pick up as many ranks of stealth as I can meanwhile.
Two they don,t make it impossible to hide in plate. If they don't being able to use Rising Mists and stunn your target at will should still allow us to train stealth wearing plate regardless.
>>You can always remove the plate to train hiding. However, those hiding ranks won't do you much good if you always wear plate.
That's the plan. They hiding ranks weren't any good anyways against anything that is an actual threat.
I'll miss it though. I love stalking around invasions.
http://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n142/Sirzason/wmsheet2.jpg
a black panther comes flying into view! it hits the ground, bouncing once before sliding to a stop.
A black panther is stunned!
That's the plan. They hiding ranks weren't any good anyways against anything that is an actual threat.
I'll miss it though. I love stalking around invasions.
http://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n142/Sirzason/wmsheet2.jpg
a black panther comes flying into view! it hits the ground, bouncing once before sliding to a stop.
A black panther is stunned!
>>I wouldn't count on it. Good trainers who want to train both will still do it. Trainers who are not so good will be worse off.
I'm not sure how a "good" trainer could work off something that can be as bad as a 50% skill penalty. Remember, I said training hiding while wearing plate. Quickly removing it is, of course, always an option.
*******
Doctor: Are you Alliance?
Early: Am I lion? Huh. I don't think of myself as a lion. But you might as well have a mighty roar!
I'm not sure how a "good" trainer could work off something that can be as bad as a 50% skill penalty. Remember, I said training hiding while wearing plate. Quickly removing it is, of course, always an option.
*******
Doctor: Are you Alliance?
Early: Am I lion? Huh. I don't think of myself as a lion. But you might as well have a mighty roar!
>I'm not sure how a "good" trainer could work off something that can be as bad as a 50% skill penalty. Remember, I said training hiding while wearing plate. Quickly removing it is, of course, always an option
Simple if the bonus to hidding against a stunned target remains still eze for a WM to hide wearing plate. Also the bonus from Rising Mists spell. Combine the two and the penalty is negated. Wont be as eze and will have to prbably have a lot more ranks to hide against things that I can do so with what I have in stealth but as long as they don't make it so that "wearing plate = 0 hidding ability" should be trainable by WM.
Simple if the bonus to hidding against a stunned target remains still eze for a WM to hide wearing plate. Also the bonus from Rising Mists spell. Combine the two and the penalty is negated. Wont be as eze and will have to prbably have a lot more ranks to hide against things that I can do so with what I have in stealth but as long as they don't make it so that "wearing plate = 0 hidding ability" should be trainable by WM.
