Leafi makes a good point about Erithians. Representing a people (what we call "race" IRL) with an in-game "race" (different concept) was almost certainly not a good idea. When Erithians were first released, it felt like it was done to attempt to justify a couple particular weapons of Eastern design that had been special and game canon for years. And, in particular, to allow more of the same.

The problem is simply this: racial stereotypes make the game. Slender elves with pointy ears that are fast on their feet. Short dwarves with beards that are sturdy and dour. Tiny gnomes that are great craftsmen. Orcs and trolls and you get the picture. These are not different human people, but creatures of fantasy. Some are good and some are horrible. Racial quirks often make the hook of a story. And in creating a fantasy race based on a people, it focuses readers on stereotypes, because we want to know what they look like, and how they are different. It's more or less the same problem as the Dark Elf discussion.

Staff seems to be aware of the issue and has been diverging the Erithian lore away from real-life culture.

<I have served in the Armed Forces and had yelling matches with people wearing Confederate belt buckles, not understanding their points of view. I have been called slurs, intentionally and unintentionally, and had bunk mates say that I was the only person of color that they have ever had as a friend. Rather than live in rage, I have had to learn to live side by side these people, so that we could be a cohesive fighting unit. One of them died on the way to my home, and I mourn him ever year as a brother, even knowing that he still held some of these beliefs, because he was the kindest and sweetest goof that I can remember. I say this in all calmness, I know how to look at both sides, and it's not about a few moments of hurt feelings. This is a lifetime of learning to accept and grow.>

In fairness, I cannot recall you saying you could not understand, but it has popped up in the thread. Also in fairness, since you have respectfully expanded, I will attempt the same.

I lived my first 20 years being told not that I did not deserve to exist. I received this message, either overtly or covertly, from society at large, the religion I was raised in, teachers, family, friends... hundreds of thousands of people just like me were in the process of being wiped out by a disease and those that weren't ignoring it were telling me they deserved it and that it was "god's punishment" for their sins. Now, none of these people knew they were talking about me, I wasn't even close to being out. How could I be? I had no idea who I could trust and who I couldn't... those that might have been on my side had all the same fears I did.

Now, towards the end of those 20 years I got into a little game called Gemstone. I loved this game, everyone was on the same footing and I could be whatever I wanted and just have fun... and then I started coming out IRL. I decided I wanted to either have one of my existing characters come out or roll up a new one that was. So, I looked around Elanthia for ideas on how such a character might look or act in this world, what culture or race might best suit them, what profession would lend to it.... and found absolutely nothing, I was playing in a world where all those people that didn't want me to exist had what they wanted. Close to 20 years after that initial look around, I've still found nothing from any official source I would even call baiting (by all means, prove me wrong if there's something I haven't seen or over-looked, the best I got is a runestaff that I handed to a merchant and whispered "make it gay" to).

Now, what I have seen over the years is that those PCs that are LGBT (both my own and others) are not treated any differently by GMs no matter how obvious it is. I'm forced to conclude that the exclusion was either unintentional or a result of the fear of going there in any manner. Still, exclusion hurts worse then any word they could use to describe something. Even if an official interpretation was "offensive", it would mean we officially exist in the world.... and in a quarter century I've never seen anything to lead me to believe such an offense would be intentional. So, to quote Jinx Monsoon, it would be "water off a duck's back" cause we exist.

I'm not saying a person's choice of words won't affect how I respond to them.... but when a word has both innocuous and offensive uses, I assume the former was the intent unless given reason to believe otherwise.

Starchitin, the OG

A severed gnomish hand crawls in on its fingertips and makes a rude gesture before quickly decaying and rotting into dust. A gust of wind quickly scatters the dust.

"when a word has both innocuous and offensive uses, I assume the former was the intent unless given reason to believe otherwise." -- Starchitin

Phrasing, context, and tone of voice pretty much handle this in meat-space. Harder, in text, but more do-able now that we have tones.

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But yeah, I'm right there with you.

>This is the messaging that is currently in game when a half-elf asks about citizenship in Ta'Vaalor:
>The clerk slams down her quill and looks you in the face with a mixture of revulsion and disqust before saying, "XXX, you are allowed in the Fortress by the grace of the King and the Council. Do not mistake the opportunity to trade for an invitation to belong. You do not now, nor will you ever, qualify for citizenship in the Fortress."<

>If one has never dealt with that in a visceral and real way, one might not realize how horrifying those words are. The solution is to squelch them from our play existence, play another race, or play someplace else, because it is a game. Here is a large clue: There are players that are only recently seeing the eastern side of the Dragonspine since the restrictions on race have opened up. Because of this sort of horribleness. No one that deals with it in real life wants to play it.

The fantasy trope of half-elves being ostracized by pure blood elves and pure blood humans has existed forever. Believe it or not, folks that are mixed raced in real life still choose to play half-elves knowing how they'll be treated in game.

I'd like to think that in the history of Gemstone there has been one honest to goodness racist in real life that played a half-elf, visited Ta'Vaalor, and was enlightened as to how they've been treating others. Maybe this fantasy experience opened their eyes. It's about as equally likely as someone being traumatized by a fantasy game.

As I gaze over the horizon, the wind tugs at my cloak and whispers, "Adventure" in my ear.

A squeaky halfling nearby asks, "Why you playing with orcs heads and troll rearends?!"

I appreciate the impactful and powerful vision evoked by the 'gypsy' fortuneteller. I remember the gypsy's role of sharing things unseen, when one could overcome the very visceral feeling of approaching her.

Her titular description is appropriate to the period and venue this game espouses.

I can not personally understand how joining a game to pretend in a fantasy has to be so tied to personal real-life experiences. I can personally understand that making game changes in a fantasy world of fantastical medieval equivalent timeframes based on personal real-life experience is not desirable.

Her name, as gypsy fortuneteller should remain, as central and vibrant to the game and its history as ever it has been.

Um. . . but keep the baths clean.

Doug

<The Gate Guard in Landing has an option to ask for a kiss, and yet if you are a male character, he will recoil from you and offer an insult.>

Would have never occurred to me to try to kiss the guard, but good to know there's something.


<It might be better for him not to have that option available if he is straight, yes? He doesn't HAVE to give a person a kiss if he doesn't want to, but why the casual and blatant rudeness coded in?>

My response below is purely my own, I make no presumption to speak for others:

I disagree that it would be better to just not have the option. Yes, the reaction is negative, but it is also honest and inclusive.

From what we know of the guard, it is perfectly in character that he would react in that way and I would honestly find it odd if he didn't have that reaction or something similar. The guard is acting with casual and blatant rudeness because of who he is. If he was either welcoming of the offer or gave a polite refusal, it would be out of character for the guard given his responses to other questions. It's a pretty good example of inclusion.

If the option to ask is there for females but not males, that's exclusion. If we take away the question altogether after decades of it being there, that's coddling... and quite honestly insulting.

I'm here cause I want a fantasy, not a utopia. Inclusion does not mean everyone has to be nice to each other or depicted as saints, it means everyone has a place.


Starchitin, the OG

A severed gnomish hand crawls in on its fingertips and makes a rude gesture before quickly decaying and rotting into dust. A gust of wind quickly scatters the dust.

<I'm here cause I want a fantasy, not a utopia. Inclusion does not mean everyone has to be nice to each other or depicted as saints, it means everyone has a place.

This is a great statement that sums up everything imo. Well done.

As I gaze over the horizon, the wind tugs at my cloak and whispers, "Adventure" in my ear.

A squeaky halfling nearby asks, "Why you playing with orcs heads and troll rearends?!"