Stalking & Hiding on 05/23/2017 02:02 PM CDT
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First of all, Gemstone is amazing. It's such a deep, rewarding game, and I enjoy it immensely.

Before I get into the main reason for this post... I might as well complain a little to warm up. This forum application is the worst I've ever visited. It looks like it's straight from 1986 but with slightly better resolution.

Anyway, I wanted to voice my complaint about the ineffectiveness of stalking and hiding versus creatures as a sniping rogue. Centaur rangers (level 23) are seemingly immune to my rogue's hiding with 71 ranks of S&H, light encumbrance, and shadow mastery running. Undead seem to do extremely well detecting hidden players as well, not sure what the justification is there. A sniping rogue model is far less effective in these areas, making that build almost ineffective against like-level creatures (if I want to pick/disarm 95% of my boxes anyway).

I tried arch wights as well, got detected and boiled immediately. I want to play a Voln rogue but this is almost not viable. It's certainly not fun and is more of a grind. Maybe it gets better at higher levels, but the early 20's is when I usually start having a lot of fun with my other characters. This isn't the case with my rogue right now. I'm in Ta'Vaalor by the way... so my only other options are ogre warriors (full of scripters) or troll chieftans. That's hunting 4 levels below. I haven't even tried zombies/spirits, which would be at my level, because I can't even handle arch wights.

Here's my training/stats:

Me (at level 24), your current skill bonuses and ranks (including all modifiers) are:
Skill Name | Current Current
| Bonus Ranks
Armor Use..........................| 122 31
Combat Maneuvers...................| 114 28
Ranged Weapons.....................| 154 54
Ambush.............................| 152 52
Physical Fitness...................| 128 34
Dodging............................| 152 52
Arcane Symbols.....................| 50 10
Harness Power......................| 5 1
Disarming Traps....................| 152 52
Picking Locks......................| 152 52
Stalking and Hiding................| 171 71
Perception.........................| 152 52
Climbing...........................| 70 15
Swimming...........................| 50 10

Spell Lists
Minor Elemental....................| 3

Race: Elf Profession: Rogue
Gender: Male Age: 33 Expr: 693595 Level: 24
Normal (Bonus) ... Enhanced (Bonus)
Strength (STR): 88 (19) ... 88 (19)
Constitution (CON): 71 (10) ... 71 (10)
Dexterity (DEX): 100 (30) ... 100 (30)
Agility (AGI): 100 (40) ... 100 (40)
Discipline (DIS): 71 (-5) ... 71 (-5)
Aura (AUR): 52 (6) ... 52 (6)
Logic (LOG): 62 (6) ... 62 (6)
Intuition (INT): 80 (15) ... 80 (15)
Wisdom (WIS): 54 (2) ... 54 (2)
Influence (INF): 60 (15) ... 60 (15)
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Re: Stalking & Hiding on 05/23/2017 02:18 PM CDT
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Naaah, this version of the Boards (appearance-wise, at least) is from the late 90s/early 2000s. (In the mid-90s, we were still using a Java-based message board, which really WAS pretty horrible (Courier-font, execrable format).) There've been several more-or-less re-writes since then, too.

The advantages that I find to it are, primarily, that I need NOT have inflicted upon me all the animated crap and cutesy images and formatting that seem to be what is so desirable about the Player's Corner site. <dismiss>
And secondarily that what is posted, is posted; I need not page back up through four days of conversation to confirm that, yes, some jackass went and edited what was said, so the chain of replies is now nonsensical. This ability, too, appears to be highly desired. <dismiss>
As a tertiary effect, people need to actually have an account FOR the game, in order to post about the game, so random passersby are kept from dropping in their two cents' worth.

.

.

To your actual point:

Undead in GemStone have a long history of being able to sniff out the living, dating from the ICE rules for RoleMaster and the UnLife (a discreet force) being able to detect Life (like player-characters. For what it's worth, so do "natural animals" (coyotes, velnalins, pumas, and so on); it is not unusual for 1st level roltons to sniff out near-cap characters.

Train more (triple those ranks, rather than merely double). Get Enhancives for even more ranks. Use Sneaking (like from scrolls), or other spells that help.
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Re: Stalking & Hiding on 05/23/2017 03:10 PM CDT
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>The advantages that I find to it are, primarily, that I need NOT have inflicted upon me all the animated crap and cutesy images and formatting that seem to be what is so desirable about the Player's Corner site. <dismiss>
>And secondarily that what is posted, is posted; I need not page back up through four days of conversation to confirm that, yes, some jackass went and edited what was said, so the chain of replies is now nonsensical. This ability, too, appears to be highly desired. <dismiss>

No comment on the stalking and hiding, but I completely agree with Robert on both of these points about the boards.

--David

"At a moment like this, I can't help but wonder, 'What would Jimmy Buffett do?'"
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Re: Stalking & Hiding on 05/23/2017 03:23 PM CDT
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<blink>

Who are you, and what have you done with David?!?

.

Either that, you're delirious and out of your head... so it's a good time for me to bring up Breakage, while you're agree with me! :)
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Re: Stalking & Hiding on 05/23/2017 03:40 PM CDT
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<Anyway, I wanted to voice my complaint about the ineffectiveness of stalking and hiding versus creatures as a sniping rogue>

At level 24, you're just starting to get decent at hiding around critters with average perception and all the critters you listed are at least above average for perception. Undead are generally the toughest things to hide from, even in his 70's my rogue still gets spotted by them once every blue moon. Animal type critters are the next toughest, followed by any rogue/ranger based critters, then there's everything else.

By the time you reach level 30, you shouldn't have any problems staying hidden around anything other then undead and some animal type critters. By 40, even those will have a tough time finding you and it will usually be level differences that allow them to sniff you out.

You don't list the CMANs or Armor Skills you train in, but if you're not training in Shadow Mastery and Armored Stealth, both of those will help make hiding much easier around whatever you hunt. The reduced RT from Shadow Mastery for sneaking and hiding is worth mastering it all on it's own, for Armored Stealth just get whatever your armor training will allow (prolly only 1 rank, but it's still a big help). As a sniper the shadows are your main line of defense, so getting these two skills should come before any other CMAN or Armor Specialization.

Lastly, the heavier your armor, the more difficult staying hidden will be even if you're fully trained for it. If you're already wearing brig, you might want to consider dropping back down to doubles for a hunt or two and seeing how you fare. It might be worth staying in doubles until around level 30 (when you'll have more S&H ranks) if what you're hunting is more perceptive then normal.

Starchitin

A severed gnomish hand crawls in on its fingertips and makes a rude gesture before quickly decaying and rotting into dust. A gust of wind quickly scatters the dust.
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Re: Stalking & Hiding on 05/23/2017 03:46 PM CDT
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<Get Enhancives for even more ranks. Use Sneaking (like from scrolls), or other spells that help.>

It's not necessary to get enhansives or outside spells (though 509 is always a godsend for my gnome) for rogue snipers to be effective. If the OP gets their S&H up to a full 3x (it's only a few ranks off) and maybe finds something less perceptive to hunt, they'll be good.

Starchitin

A severed gnomish hand crawls in on its fingertips and makes a rude gesture before quickly decaying and rotting into dust. A gust of wind quickly scatters the dust.
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Re: Stalking & Hiding on 05/23/2017 03:50 PM CDT
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>> though 509 is always a godsend for my gnome

And every other character in the game, with almost no exceptions :p
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Re: Stalking & Hiding on 05/23/2017 04:01 PM CDT
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I've got a level 45 rogue that's 2.5x in hiding and I have to be quick when hunting Shan - stupid dog creatures can sniff me out probably 60% of the time. My rogue has a couple of levels on shan, but they can sniff you out good.

I had a similar issue when hunting bats, they weren't as good at finding my rogue, but maybe sniffed him out 25% of the time.

I've always known that undead just sort of "detect" hidden characters and your stalking and hiding is about as useful as a capped wizard that casts invisibility and a kobold finds him, so my rogue just avoids undead for that reason alone.

>Train more (triple those ranks, rather than merely double). Get Enhancives for even more ranks. Use Sneaking (like from scrolls), or other spells that help.

At level 24 with 71 ranks in S&H that's nearly 3x....can't really train much more in it.

Back in the day, I had a rogue that had some supple black hunting boots (to go with my supple black hunting leathers - SWCP double leathers, if I remember correctly) that had Camouflage (spell 608) in them. They had 40(?) charges - I think I picked them up on the Juggernaught when it was around. I thought they were the best dang thing to happen to my rogue then, made him much harder to spot while out hunting those creatures that just sniffed you out good.

Anyway, you'll find it frustrating trying to hind against some living creatures and especially against undead. You need to pick and choose your hunting grounds or adjust your hunting methods.

-Drumpel
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Re: Stalking & Hiding on 05/23/2017 04:19 PM CDT
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> @Krakii The advantages that I find to it are, primarily, that I need NOT have inflicted upon me all the animated crap and cutesy images and formatting that seem to be what is so desirable about the Player's Corner site. <dismiss>

You know you can turn off images and avatars in your control panel at the PC (Thanks Stormyrain for this tip.) It makes the place much more bearable.

---
Rohese: "... the TownCrier (tune in if you haven’t, it’s without doubt the best thing to ever happen on LNet)"
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Re: Stalking & Hiding on 05/23/2017 08:30 PM CDT
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That would require a) visiting again and b) tolerating it long enough to find the control panel. :)
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Re: Stalking & Hiding on 05/23/2017 10:23 PM CDT
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>Either that, you're delirious and out of your head... so it's a good time for me to bring up Breakage, while you're agree with me! :)

Now, we had this limited, wonderful kumbaya moment going. Let's not ruin it by bringing up breakage. :)

--David

"At a moment like this, I can't help but wonder, 'What would Jimmy Buffett do?'"
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Re: Stalking & Hiding on 05/24/2017 01:01 AM CDT
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P.S. The PC also requires selective reading...

---
Rohese: "... the TownCrier (tune in if you haven’t, it’s without doubt the best thing to ever happen on LNet)"
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Re: Stalking & Hiding on 05/24/2017 07:11 AM CDT
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>P.S. The PC also requires selective reading...

If you can just picture some of the people that post on PC as such (see link), then you may be able to handle PC.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=no_elVGGgW8

-Drumpel
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Re: Stalking & Hiding on 05/25/2017 12:36 PM CDT
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I had forgotten about the armor factor. I'll go to doubles and see what happens, thanks for all the responses :)
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Re: Stalking & Hiding on 07/15/2017 06:49 PM CDT
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It would be cool if we could kill undead and whipe their remains on us walking dead style to hide better.

New rogue guild skill to craft items like the smoke spheres and other rogue like items for hiding.
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Re: Stalking & Hiding on 07/20/2017 04:25 AM CDT
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It would make sense to me for Voln armor and ensorcelled armor (and possibly whatever other relevant type) to aid in hiding from undead by masking your life force.

I did not see this thread at the time, but Krakii was right. These things do not even have eyes. They should "see" you even if you are hiding.


- Xorus' player

(Which plays into my interpretation of the original Despana / Maelshyve story. "Lesser demons" implied Level 16-25 at the time, at best half the strength of her banshees. The point in my view was: 1. The undead should have no instinct to attack demons. 2. The ones listed were mindless types that in I.C.E. lore obeyed forces of darkness more powerful than themselves, so her control over them should have been broken. The living flee into the fortress, the undead chase after them. Void gets rid of the liches.)


Several intact gravesites lie to the east. You also see a skeleton that appears dead.
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