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Small complaint and request for info about the limitation of the raffles at FOF. Here is an example:
>>The raffle is for "The winner will receive +5 to the enchant of their weapon, armor, shield, or runestaff. The winner MUST be present when their name is drawn or another winner will be selected immediately. Restrictions: No weighting, sighting, or padding in excess of 10 pts (150 by the new value), no combat scripts, no claids, no katanas, final enchant cannot exceed +40.".
Why are there so many restrictions on this raffle? Why isn't 179 the cutoff value instead of 150 (because there isn't a mechanical benefit until 180 pts)? I understand the limiting of banes (which makes sense, just limit it to 1 creature.
Restrictions are not present on Duskruin certificates that are purchased with Simucoins. Are the restrictions in place because this is a free event or is there another rational for this? Should we expect similar restrictions at other free events?
>Are the restrictions in place because this is a free event or is there another rational for this? Should we expect similar restrictions at other free events?
there have always been heavy restrictions with free events that I recall. I'm not saying that each and every raffle ticket should not list those restrictions (they should definitely), but they've existed.
>Why isn't 179 the cutoff value instead of 150 (because there isn't a mechanical benefit until 180 pts)?
omg this. if you're not getting a mechanical benefit at service 151-179, then you should be able to do anything to those barring other properties that you can do to something with 150 services.
The restrictions we're seeing are the same ones from last year's FoF, I believe. There's some new language (around the new service point scale), but otherwise I'm pretty sure it's no different from before.
It's a tough comparison, since it's coming a few days after the highest end service event we have all year, but this is a free festival. And these rules are pretty standard fare.
I DO wish we could start sorting combat scripts into categories (lower tier vs higher tier)- things like T1 and T2 Iasha- which is just a sanctified weapon with plasma flares (which would be otherwise allowable) or realm flarers (which- at any given time- are never more than just a 5x weapon with a standard flare on it) could be separated out from things like Blink or T3 black ora. But that's a larger conversation that isn't really up to the GMs running this festival, I assume.
"realm flarers (which- at any given time- are never more than just a 5x weapon with a standard flare on it)" -- NicoleLarans
Which is great, and all, except for the script-y part of the whole thing, which looks at where you are located and converts the flare based on that...
.
"separated out from ... T3 black ora" -- ibid
I don't believe that they have a "tier1 Iasha" script, and a "tier2 Iasha" script, and a "tier3 Iasha" script; I believe they have an "Iasha" script, and on any given weapon there is a declared variable of "ActiveTier == <1 | 2 | 3>". When you unlock a new tier, that variable gets changed upwards (and possibly other stuff happens, like updating an Enchant value and so on).
So far as prohibitions are concerned, there would be no functional difference between a tier1 Iasha off-the-shelf weapon, and a tier3 GodWeapon. They both have an "Iasha" script-y thing on them.
Which is great, and all, except for the script-y part of the whole thing, which looks at where you are located and converts the flare based on that...
.
"separated out from ... T3 black ora" -- ibid
I don't believe that they have a "tier1 Iasha" script, and a "tier2 Iasha" script, and a "tier3 Iasha" script; I believe they have an "Iasha" script, and on any given weapon there is a declared variable of "ActiveTier == <1 | 2 | 3>". When you unlock a new tier, that variable gets changed upwards (and possibly other stuff happens, like updating an Enchant value and so on).
So far as prohibitions are concerned, there would be no functional difference between a tier1 Iasha off-the-shelf weapon, and a tier3 GodWeapon. They both have an "Iasha" script-y thing on them.
| The raffle is for "This raffle is allows the winner to have the voln armor script added to a piece of armor. The winners must be PRESENT and have the armor on their person. Failure to do so will result in the win being redistributed by spinner. Some restrictions may apply but must be determined on a case by case basis. Good luck.". |
What happens if your armor has one of those "case by case" restrictions? Do you forfeit the win if you don't have an additional set of armor on your character that is eligible? What happens for that halfling character who can't carry around an entire lockers worth of armor with backups?
I'd like to request that you stop adding "Must have the armor/weapon/whatever on your person" because from my point of view it's not necessary and it's adding frustration when trying to plan how to actually use a service, if it is won.
If you're trying to prevent people from passing gear around, why? What benefit is there to that limitation? If the person won the raffle, why can't they use the win as they see fit? If you think it will stop people from entering every raffle, it won't. It will just cause people to use the win on something they don't really want to use it on. Also, why can't my friends enter the raffle and use it for my benefit if they win?
What is wrong with something like the following?
| The raffle is for "The Voln armor script added to a piece of armor. The winners must be PRESENT for the drawing. Failure to be present during the drawing will result in the win being redistributed by spinner. Some restrictions may apply but must be determined on a case by case basis. Good luck.". |
There are a number of reasons for why this might happen but for this specific festival it is time constraints. I'm sure you've seen the sheer volume of raffles and services being offered. Keep in mind that anything offered here, is also offered in Platinum so if it looks busy to you... X2. Combine that with the tournament, general merchanting, and the ball, then quite simply, I do not have time for previous experiences of (digging through your locker for 20 min to find appropriate armor or waiting for your locker to move to this town and THEN digging through it for 20 min - yes it has happened). I'm simply asking you to come prepared and have a backup with you.
~Mazreth
"Mother, should I trust the Government?"
~Mazreth
"Mother, should I trust the Government?"
People are present all the time and still sell their spot, the no passing is to make sure someone who wants it gets it. I agree it can be a pain to try to carry multiple sets of armor, i'm juggling 3 sets of full plate right now. Also a pain to someone who has more than one account.
I still like the restriction though personally.
Fyrentennimar
Quote: "Jaynah says, "This is more fun than rolton tipping and blood eagle ridin combined.""
I still like the restriction though personally.
Fyrentennimar
Quote: "Jaynah says, "This is more fun than rolton tipping and blood eagle ridin combined.""
| There are a number of reasons for why this might happen but for this specific festival it is time constraints. I'm sure you've seen the sheer volume of raffles and services being offered. Keep in mind that anything offered here, is also offered in Platinum so if it looks busy to you... X2. Combine that with the tournament, general merchanting, and the ball, then quite simply, I do not have time for previous experiences of (digging through your locker for 20 min to find appropriate armor or waiting for your locker to move to this town and THEN digging through it for 20 min - yes it has happened). I'm simply asking you to come prepared and have a backup with you. |
| ~Mazreth |
Forgive me for being blunt, but I feel it's unacceptable to restrict us because you've stretched yourself so thin. I also question why you would run this festival in prime and plat at the same time if you can't manage the workload and have to use overbearing restrictions in an attempt to "save time".
I have a set of armor that I'd like to have the voln script added to. It's a service I've wanted for a very long time, but have been unable to get for ... years. You expect us to carry around an entire lockers worth of items with these restrictions and it's frustrating.
I feel I should also be allowed to pass my armor to a friend if they win and want to use it on my behalf. I understand you may not want to wait 20 minutes for a player to find armor, but you can't even say what's acceptable or not. "Some restrictions may apply but must be determined on a case by case basis." You expect us to be prepared, and have backups, and meet your deadline or else we lose out. It doesn't seem fair to expect us to jump through hoop A, B and C when you're unwilling to compromise because you have too much on your plate.
I would be far less frustrated if you simply limited the amount of time that people have. A 5 or 10 minute limit to hand you eligible armor seems appropriate. If 5 or 10 minutes passes and you haven't been offered eligible armor, you spin for someone else.
I will also point out that your raffles are the only raffles with these restrictions. Perhaps it would be more appropriate for someone else to redeem the win if you can't be available for more than 20 minutes at a time.
| People are present all the time and still sell their spot, the no passing is to make sure someone who wants it gets it. I agree it can be a pain to try to carry multiple sets of armor, i'm juggling 3 sets of full plate right now. Also a pain to someone who has more than one account. |
| I still like the restriction though personally. |
| Fyrentennimar |
The no passing certainly does not guarantee someone who wants it, gets it. I would argue it has the exact opposite effect. It means that the winner will be forced to use it on whatever armor they can find that is eligible at that moment. Which could mean that it's used on armor that isn't a "first choice" so it goes to waste. With the current restriction I am being forced to carry plain 4x armor as a backup. That is definitely NOT the armor I want to add it to, but that's what I'll have to use if the unclear restrictions deem my "first choice" as unacceptable. My friends will also have plain 4x armor as a backup. Again, not a first choice, just a requirement because of the restriction.
>>The no passing certainly does not guarantee someone who wants it, gets it. I would argue it has the exact opposite effect. It means that the winner will be forced to use it on whatever armor they can find that is eligible at that moment. Which could mean that it's used on armor that isn't a "first choice" so it goes to waste. With the current restriction I am being forced to carry plain 4x armor as a backup. That is definitely NOT the armor I want to add it to, but that's what I'll have to use if the unclear restrictions deem my "first choice" as unacceptable. My friends will also have plain 4x armor as a backup. Again, not a first choice, just a requirement because of the restriction.
Most unlocking's or adding services like this have a risk of not having something you feel worthy of them. Personally if I don't feel there is something I want to add it to then I won't enter it. In this case voln armor is player enchantable, so even adding it to 4x armor is not horrible, although you will probably have a chance to buy 4x t1 off the shelf again at some point. I would guess standard services will apply, probably nothing over 7x maybe 8x. Likely nothing past heavy padding. Fusion and voln don't mix so that is out. Yes it's a pain carrying 3 to 5 sets of armor but are you eally hunting during the festival? Empty yourself of stuff and it's not impossible.
I agree more details on the restrictions would be nice ,but I still think no passing is a very good thing. You and I might simply trade services with a friend to help them or they help us, but there are people who will only want to sell it and won't enter now. This has been done in the past and kept entries way down thus increasing your odds.
Fyrentennimar
Quote: "Jaynah says, "This is more fun than rolton tipping and blood eagle ridin combined.""
Most unlocking's or adding services like this have a risk of not having something you feel worthy of them. Personally if I don't feel there is something I want to add it to then I won't enter it. In this case voln armor is player enchantable, so even adding it to 4x armor is not horrible, although you will probably have a chance to buy 4x t1 off the shelf again at some point. I would guess standard services will apply, probably nothing over 7x maybe 8x. Likely nothing past heavy padding. Fusion and voln don't mix so that is out. Yes it's a pain carrying 3 to 5 sets of armor but are you eally hunting during the festival? Empty yourself of stuff and it's not impossible.
I agree more details on the restrictions would be nice ,but I still think no passing is a very good thing. You and I might simply trade services with a friend to help them or they help us, but there are people who will only want to sell it and won't enter now. This has been done in the past and kept entries way down thus increasing your odds.
Fyrentennimar
Quote: "Jaynah says, "This is more fun than rolton tipping and blood eagle ridin combined.""
I think you may be reading too much into the 'some restrictions'. They're not on the lookout for, "Hey, we can DIS-allow this armor! Woo! Score!"
Since Finros' post about what slots are where, if you have your Target Armor, and you can identify--based on the info he gave--that, "Gee, there's something <right here> where the Voln stuff would go," there's probably a pretty damn good chance that Voln stuff would NOT be allowed on that armor.
The "some restrictions" is to give them an out when that +50 T5 ensorcelled wondrously padded (both, naturally) kroderine armor with rotflares comes through, and they have to say, "Not this one."
Since Finros' post about what slots are where, if you have your Target Armor, and you can identify--based on the info he gave--that, "Gee, there's something <right here> where the Voln stuff would go," there's probably a pretty damn good chance that Voln stuff would NOT be allowed on that armor.
The "some restrictions" is to give them an out when that +50 T5 ensorcelled wondrously padded (both, naturally) kroderine armor with rotflares comes through, and they have to say, "Not this one."
| Most unlocking's or adding services like this have a risk of not having something you feel worthy of them. Personally if I don't feel there is something I want to add it to then I won't enter it. In this case voln armor is player enchantable, so even adding it to 4x armor is not horrible, although you will probably have a chance to buy 4x t1 off the shelf again at some point. I would guess standard services will apply, probably nothing over 7x maybe 8x. Likely nothing past heavy padding. Fusion and voln don't mix so that is out. Yes it's a pain carrying 3 to 5 sets of armor but are you eally hunting during the festival? Empty yourself of stuff and it's not impossible. |
| I agree more details on the restrictions would be nice ,but I still think no passing is a very good thing. You and I might simply trade services with a friend to help them or they help us, but there are people who will only want to sell it and won't enter now. This has been done in the past and kept entries way down thus increasing your odds. |
| Fyrentennimar |
I'm going to enter the raffle either way. Mazreths willingness to compromise will determine if I'm able to add the script to my "first choice" should I win, or a backup. I disagree that it's "not horrible" to add it to plain 4x armor if you desire to add it to higher enchant armor that is already padded. It increases the cost in terms of silvers, time and opportunity by a significant amount.
Your second point that people won't enter because they won't be able to sell the service is incorrect. They may not be able to sell the service, but they could toss it on any eligible armor and then sell it. If you think people are not going to enter a raffle, it makes me believe you haven't attended any event, ever. There are many examples of people buying a ticket to every raffle possible and then asking, what did I just win?
If I can pass suitable armor within a short amount of time, I see no reason why I shouldn't be allowed to. When the only reason for the restriction is because "I'm doing things in prime and platinum", that's not acceptable to me, I'm sorry. Especially when it comes to such a sought after service that is offered once every 2 years.
>Why isn't 179 the cutoff value instead of 150 (because there isn't a mechanical benefit until 180 pts)?
Although you may not see a difference combat-wise, anything beyond 150 is still over 150, and thus incrementally over 10 points of weighting/padding. That is the reasoning behind putting 150 on the ticket, and not 150-179.
~~GM Kynlee~~
Elanthian Architect
Breaker of Things
GS4-Kynlee@play.net
3/50
Although you may not see a difference combat-wise, anything beyond 150 is still over 150, and thus incrementally over 10 points of weighting/padding. That is the reasoning behind putting 150 on the ticket, and not 150-179.
~~GM Kynlee~~
Elanthian Architect
Breaker of Things
GS4-Kynlee@play.net
3/50
Tossing it onto something and selling it for a profit would mean they also think they have a pretty nice bit of gear. Will some people who don't want it for themselves still go for it? Probably some, not nearly as many as there would be otherwise though. You get way more people entering who don't want it when know they can flip their spot instantly for a huge profit. At that point your odds are even higher that it's going to someone who doesn't really really want it, unless of course you outbid everyone on their spot. Heck, you might even see something newly volned suddenly pop up for sale that's better than what you were going put it on and buy it.
Fyrentennimar
Quote: "Jaynah says, "This is more fun than rolton tipping and blood eagle ridin combined.""
Fyrentennimar
Quote: "Jaynah says, "This is more fun than rolton tipping and blood eagle ridin combined.""
This festival, the Midsummer, and Frontier Days seem to me to be geared towards our newer players. These raffles seem to have heavy restriction to those of us with "project pieces". But for the newer player it's a chance to get some of these coveted abilities on their basic gear. In that sense these restrictions do not bother me in the least. For a free festival FoF rocks.
Chad, player of a few
Chad, player of a few
A good rule of thumb for the Voln armor is to ask yourself, "Would I have needed a CCF ticket to get my armor worked on before?" If the answer is yes, it will probably be disallowed. The restrictions aren't arbitrary, though they may seem onerous to you at times, they are there for a reason. Voln armor when fully unlocked is a very powerful piece of armor and, as such, what it gets added to is limited. (Thus the case by case basis) I'm not trying to keep you guessing but I honestly cannot tell you if your armor qualifies until I see it.
As for the passing restrictions, those will be staying in place.
~Mazreth
"Mother should I trust the Government?"
| A good rule of thumb for the Voln armor is to ask yourself, "Would I have needed a CCF ticket to get my armor worked on before?" If the answer is yes, it will probably be disallowed. The restrictions aren't arbitrary, though they may seem onerous to you at times, they are there for a reason. Voln armor when fully unlocked is a very powerful piece of armor and, as such, what it gets added to is limited. (Thus the case by case basis) I'm not trying to keep you guessing but I honestly cannot tell you if your armor qualifies until I see it. |
| As for the passing restrictions, those will be staying in place. |
| ~Mazreth |
I think most people would have no clue if a CCF ticket would be required or not. It would be easier to use drama armor as an example.
Can the voln script be added to drama armor? (6x HCP?)
If not, what is the cut off? 5x HCP? 4x HCP? No padding? 10x? 6x? 4x? Give us some examples without all the bells and whistles. Just enchant (+ padding?) up to X level is allowed.
If we're required to have the armor on the character, and not be allowed to pass or retrieve suitable armor. The restrictions should be far less open to interpretation.
I plan to bring padded armor. But should I plan to bring plain 4x armor because of the restrictions?
