re: Tentative Bard Magic 3.0 Spell List on 10/18/2010 06:49 PM CDT
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Saweet!

Now to actually read the thing... I'll be back tomorrow with thoughts and discussions. :)

P.S. You did wait for me! Yay!

-Evran
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re: Tentative Bard Magic 3.0 Spell List on 10/18/2010 07:24 PM CDT
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Can you say a bit about the balance considerations between cyclics and non-cyclics? How does Phoenix's Pyre compare to a non-cyclic TM spell, for example?

Overall, I'm very happy with the way this looks. I'm a little sad we no longer have a cyclic combat augmentation (e.g. current Harmony). Of course, we're gaining Rage + Harmony + DEMA for simultaneously buffing and debuffing everything important.

I also notice we don't have any "Spirit vs" or "vs Reflex" effects. Was this a deliberate omission or just how things worked out? If the latter, I think Abandoned Heart might fit better as Spirit than Charm.

>Hodierna's Lilt
>Basic Cyclic Augmentation. Restores Vitality, Fatigue, Spirit in area. No real change.

Spirit restoration is a change (back to 1.0), one that I'm very happy to see. Is it losing the concentration restoration?

>Call of the Siren

Please reconsider the spawn blocking. It's not an effect people want very often, and we already have it elsewhere in our spellbook (Sanctuary). I'd rather it be removed so that it doesn't affect the slot cost. It would also be nice to be able to sing Sire in a way that encourages spawn but doesn't hit random PCs wandering by.

>Resonance

Looks nice. If it could be made to work with Throwing Blades, that would be awesome.

>Phoenix's Pyre

Single target or area? I assume it pulses with every cycle. Does that make it count as a multi-shot spell, with all that that entails?

Will the damaging effect be full strength, instead of the weak effect it is now? (I know you said all effects are full strength, but I wasn't sure if that was only talking about buff effects.)

>Redeemer's Pride

Will this interfere with the caster's spells the way Aether Cloak and Shear will? Same question for Glythtide's Joy.

>Aether Wolves

This looks really cool.

> Chorus of Madmen

Since it's going to use TM, will it lose the damage cap?
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re: Tentative Bard Magic 3.0 Spell List on 10/18/2010 07:31 PM CDT
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Wow, I'm excited about a lot of the possibilities. I was hoping to see some new one's on there but I am very happy with these changes. Here are the concerns I have right this second, or questions rather.

>>pulses to groupmates.
Please explain how this is supposed to work? Once the spell is cast, it will pulse protection to group mates, is there anything set up like this now that I can use as an example?


>>Resonance
>>Advanced Augmentation. Improves weapon you cast it on and brings it back into caster's hand anytime dropped.

Previously Resonance worked only on weapons we had skills in at least secondary weapon. Will this now work on all weapons we choose to use it on? Or is it assumed it will still only work on the same class of weapons?

>>Phoenix Pyre
HUGE Thank you to making this into a primarily functioning damage spell. Will we see some improvement in the messaging please or will it still be the same old "a surge of intense heat hits a dragon priest in the head!"?

Breath of Storms won't make us chug booze will it? Whatever, I'm excited so much for it I think I'd chug whiskey while doing backflips for it (not really).


Also let me get this straight, these enchantes are now regular spells:
Spells:
Naming of Tears
Redeemer's Pride
Drums of the Snake
Resonance
Harmony
Rage of the Clans
Breath of Storms
Chorus of Madmen
Eillie's Cry
Misdirection

So we could essentially have all of those that are buffs on at the same time? I realize that now a cap is a cap, so we could have every offensive boost in the game on but once the cap is hit, the rest do no good. But is that right?

I'm too excited to post too much coherently.

How will Madmen work? It seems perfect as a pulse spell currently.

- Terra
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re: Tentative Bard Magic 3.0 Spell List on 10/18/2010 07:37 PM CDT
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Gonna go through spell by spell and comment :)

>>Ballads and Romances:

>>Hodierna's Lilt
>>Basic Cyclic Augmentation. Restores Vitality, Fatigue, Spirit in area. No real change.

Good to see the Spirit aspect returning! When I saw spirit attacks were coming back I really hoped this would be the case.

>>Faenella's Grace
>>Introductory Cyclic Augmentation. Improves teaching/scholar and slightly improves speed of classes in area. No real change.

Sounds good.

>>Naming of Tears
>>Advanced Warding. Damage barrier, always on caster, pulses to groupmates.

I have a question about the "pulses to groupmates" spells. I haven't had much experience with the usual casting guilds, so is this similar to things they do now? If I cast NoT on myself and someone joins me, every so often it'll pulse to them?

>>Redeemer's Pride
>>Advanced Warding. SvS protection vs Fear attacks and for Will defense. Always on caster, pulses to groupmates. Any hit on groupmates lessens the entire barrier.

Out of curiosity, what all does Fear attacks cover at this point?


>>Damaris' Lullaby
>>Advanced Cyclic Debilitation.Charm vs Will. Debuffs agility, strength, reflex. Causes opponents to fall over / unconscious. No real change.

Looks good, can't wait to use this enchante without stringed instruments!

>>Sanctuary
>>Esoteric Cyclic Utility. Strong Ward against Location, prevents Hiding / Invisibility, prevents generic creature entry.

Nice addition with the hiding/invisibility aspect! I can see actually using this now!


>>Albreda's Balm
>>Basic Cyclic Utility / Debilitation. Charm vs Will to start the enchante and cause a sphere of calm.

Looks good.

>>Call of the Siren
>>Esoteric Cyclic Utility. Attempts to either block the spawning of creatures or attract more creatures. No change.

Still love this enchante!


>>Allegros and Capriccios:

>>Drums of the Snake
>>Advanced Augmentation. Agility + Disarm/Lock bonus. Always on caster, pulses to groupmates.

Very glad to see this switch to castable!

>>Desert's Maelstrom
>>Esoteric Cyclic Debilitation. Magic vs Fortitude. Garbage collection, penalizes TM / offense / defense. Pulsing improved balance of caster friends.

Is the penalty against the ranged weapon usage of the Bard still included in this?


>>Rage of the Clans
>>Advanced Augmentation. Melee / Ranged Accuracy boost. Always on caster, pulses to groupmates.

Glad to see this castable!

>>Caress of the Sun
>>Introductory Cyclic Utility. 0-slot spell that provides protection from weather to your instruments.

Sweet, I was planning on dumping this in the spell wipe, glad to see it's going to be a freebie.

>>Resonance
>>Advanced Augmentation. Improves weapon you cast it on and brings it back into caster's hand anytime dropped.

This sounds awesome! Will the "Must meet X weapon requirement" thing be going away? Also, will this return thrown weapons immediately, or is it purely dropped weapons?

>>Phoenix's Pyre
>>Advanced Cyclic TM. Fire direct damage, ignite naphtha, fatigue damage.

Glad the naphtha lighting is coming back. Is there going to be any improvement in the damage output? As it is now, the damage potential it has would be what I would consider equal to an introductory level spell.

>>Harmony
>>Esoteric Augmentation. Reflex, Parry, Evasion boost. Personal only.

Is there going to be a correlating spell similar to singing Harmony loudly now? This seems to be a castable quiet version, which is awesome, I'm just not seeing anything for offense (the new Rage of the Clans is offense to-hit, but current loud Harmony seems like more than just that)

>>Breath of Storms
>>Basic Targeted. Direct damage.

Any details on how this one will work?

>>Merelew's Legacy
>>Basic Cyclic Augmentation / Utility. Area Athletics + Underwater Breath

What is "Area Athletics?"

>>Concertos and Sonatas:

>>Nexus
>>Esoteric Cyclic Augmentation. Area Global Mana booster.

Good to go.

>>Eye of Kertigen
>>Advanced Utility. Searches area with improved perception for a short time. Lights up area around Bard.

Very glad to see this is going to be castable! I always liked Eye, but it just never made sense to use as an enchante.

>>Demrris' Resolve
>>Advanced Debilitation. Mind vs Will. AoE Stun and Knockdown.

Rockin.

>>Glythtide's Joy
>>Esoteric Cyclic Warding. Area interference with Targeted Magic.

As it stands now, Joy doesn't mess up the bards TM efforts (as far as I know.) I know that other guilds warding spells that mess up TM are cutting both ways, will this be the same? I'm assuming so, figured I'd ask.

>>Aether Wolves
>>Introductory Cyclic Debilitation. Magic vs Fortitude Area Immobilization + damage to attunement stat (not skill).

Does this mean it'll drain peoples mana attunement? I'm not sure what "attunement stat" means exactly. Seems interesting though.

>>Blessing of the Fae
>>Esoteric Cyclic Augmentation. Area Attunement booster + Attunement regeneration

...uh oh... RIP Nagas. RIP GM's when Terra sees this!

>>Aura of Tongues
>>Introductory Cyclic Utility. Allows the caster to understand other languages. Higher potency allows group members to share the benefit.

Any chance that this could become a perma-loop cyclic spell? Or are all cyclic spells going to go on until you actively stop them now?

>>Misdirection
>>Advanced Augmentation / Debilitation. Stealth bonus to caster, Charm vs Will area perception debuff to viewers at time of cast.

Awesome!!

>>Nocturnes and Requiems:


>>Chorus of Madmen
>>Esoteric Cyclic Debilitation / Targeted. Drives the listeners insane, causing uncontrollable random effects, and causes them to attack themselves.

Will the Pink Dragon be returning? :D I haven't used Madmen on others in a while, but last I heard the damage it dealt from self attacks was pretty much abrasions. Has that/will that change?

>>Eillie's Cry
>>Introductory Utility. Allows a bard to shout a message to the nearby area while alive. Can also be utilized rarely when dead.

Well, it's better than it used to be. This could actually be pretty useful in an invasion or something depending on the range. "MADIGAN SAYS FORM UP AT THE BANK, MOVE IT!"

>>Abandoned Heart
>>Esoteric Cyclic Debilitation. Area effect Charm vs Fortitude. Debuffs Discipline, Stamina, Strength. Drains fatigue and spirit. Increases the effect of bleeding wounds.

Spirit attack! Woo! Will this regain the ability to drain fatigue past the 50% point? That change always bugged me, I'm putting in the mana and effort to drain your fatigue yet it just stops at 50%.


Overall comments: Looks like a lot of great changes. My biggest concern right now is that we still seem pretty light on TM as our only TM effects are from Madmen, Pyre and Breath, two of which are cyclical. While madmen is Esoteric, I'm assuming that's more because the Debilitation is so good. Pyre is Advanced, but IDK if that necessarily will mean a damage improvement. Breath of Storms is basic, but it's impossible to really judge its power without trying it. It's clear that TM isn't our primary sphere of influence, so I'm not surprised, just wondering where those might be placed power-wise.

By the look of it, our strong points are augmentation and debilitation. I can't wait to finally be able to buff up with multiple spells! Debilitation I'm less excited for mainly because I'm used to AoE debilitation being useful for PvE and useless for PvP, but I'm looking forward to playing with things and relearning how to play a bard.

I was really hoping we'd see a few entirely new spells, but the ever anticipated Breath of Storms is as close as we're getting it seems. I guess we'll have to see how it goes with the whole slot system thing, I just wanted more new spells so there's a point to circling past 74 or whichever circle it is where we've topped out.


-=Issus=-
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re: Tentative Bard Magic 3.0 Spell List on 10/18/2010 07:37 PM CDT
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Oh, had some more thoughts.

Will Nexus affect Lunar mana?

With sufficient skill, will the boosts from Nexus/Blessing of the Fae be enough that it will be worth it for a bard to use them to help themselves when casting spells? Or are these only enchantes that can be used to help others?

I notice that we're very good at boosting survivals, but we don't have any way to boost magics and can only boost one (post combination) lore skill. WTB Muse's Inspiration, please.
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re: Tentative Bard Magic 3.0 Spell List on 10/18/2010 07:47 PM CDT
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> Out of curiosity, what all does Fear attacks cover at this point?

It will include Barbarian roars. Fear is one of the two basic non-magic (non-damaging) attack forms. The other is Power (see: warstomp).

> What is "Area Athletics?"

Athletics is the combination of Swimming and Climbing. So, area effect boost to Athletics skills.

> Does this mean it'll drain peoples mana attunement? I'm not sure what "attunement stat" means exactly. Seems interesting though.

Attunement is a new skill combining Harness and PP. So maybe this means it debuffs whatever stat goes along with that skill?

>Pyre is Advanced, but IDK if that necessarily will mean a damage improvement.

Intro/Basic/Advanced/Esoteric don't change the strength of the spell. There is a standardized strength that everything uses.
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re: Tentative Bard Magic 3.0 Spell List on 10/18/2010 07:51 PM CDT
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>Attunement is a new skill combining Harness and PP. So maybe this means it debuffs whatever stat goes along with that skill?

Most likely it drains attunement as if you'd casted a spell.



"Your suffering amuses me" -GM Raesh

Hunta Talna Kortok, built by Gor'Togs, for Gor'Togs
http://www.angelfire.com/rpg2/caraamon/home.html
Blunts for Sale:
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re: Tentative Bard Magic 3.0 Spell List on 10/18/2010 07:54 PM CDT
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> Most likely it drains attunement as if you'd casted a spell.

That makes more sense.
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re: Tentative Bard Magic 3.0 Spell List on 10/18/2010 07:58 PM CDT
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>I'm a little sad we no longer have a cyclic combat augmentation (e.g. current Harmony)

This reads as "I would like to not be able to use a nice combat spell so that I can instead use the cyclic slot to buff myself, when I could have just buffed myself without it being cyclic under the proposed plan." I don't think that's what you actually want though.

>I also notice we don't have any "Spirit vs" or "vs Reflex" effects. Was this a deliberate omission or just how things worked out? If the latter, I think Abandoned Heart might fit better as Spirit than Charm.

A little of both. Honestly having less attack types is more beneficial to the guild because it means less stat inputs they personally need.

>>Phoenix's Pyre

>Single target or area? I assume it pulses with every cycle. Does that make it count as a multi-shot spell, with all that that entails?

Area. Yes. No. A multi-shot cyclic would hit multiple times every cycle.

>>Redeemer's Pride

>Will this interfere with the caster's spells the way Aether Cloak and Shear will?

No, because it can't stop the opponent's spell from being cast, so it's not actually a 'barrier'. It just aids in your own defense.

>Same question for Glythtide's Joy.

Yes, because it can stop a TM spell from being cast entirely.

>> Chorus of Madmen

>Since it's going to use TM, will it lose the damage cap?

Yes.


>>pulses to groupmates.
>Please explain how this is supposed to work? Once the spell is cast, it will pulse protection to group mates, is there anything set up like this now that I can use as an example?

All your enchantes if you're singing QUIET? Heh. Every X seconds anyone in your group will get the bonus for the next X seconds. When they leave, the buff goes away, but the bard has it always. Bards are sort of emphasizing area powers in everything they do, but the caveat is instead of granting a buff that lasts 40 minutes to other people, people have to stay near the bard. The bonus is the Bard doesn't have to recast it for friends that join them later.


>>Resonance
>>Advanced Augmentation. Improves weapon you cast it on and brings it back into caster's hand anytime dropped.

>Previously Resonance worked only on weapons we had skills in at least secondary weapon. Will this now work on all weapons we choose to use it on? Or is it assumed it will still only work on the same class of weapons?

Any weapon you want to cast it on, you will cast it directly on the weapon.

>>>Phoenix Pyre
>HUGE Thank you to making this into a primarily functioning damage spell. Will we see some improvement in the messaging please or will it still be the same old "a surge of intense heat hits a dragon priest in the head!"?

I will fancy up the messaging some but we'll probably want to avoid this being too spammy also.

>Breath of Storms won't make us chug booze will it?

It will not.

>How will Madmen work? It seems perfect as a pulse spell currently.

Similar to now, but there will be a TM contest on some pulses to see if they hurt themselves.

>Out of curiosity, what all does Fear attacks cover at this point?

Barbarian Roars.

>Is the penalty against the ranged weapon usage of the Bard still included in this?

I don't see a need for it to penalize the Bard, personally.

>>>Harmony
>>Esoteric Augmentation. Reflex, Parry, Evasion boost. Personal only.

>Is there going to be a correlating spell similar to singing Harmony loudly now?

It actually is RAGE. 'To-Hit' also improves damage, really.

>>Merelew's Legacy
>>Basic Cyclic Augmentation / Utility. Area Athletics + Underwater Breath

>What is "Area Athletics?"

Athletics is the combination of Climbing + Swimming.

>>Aether Wolves
>>Introductory Cyclic Debilitation. Magic vs Fortitude Area Immobilization + damage to attunement stat (not skill).

>Does this mean it'll drain peoples mana attunement?

Yes.

>Or are all cyclic spells going to go on until you actively stop them now?

Yes.

>>Eillie's Cry
>>Introductory Utility. Allows a bard to shout a message to the nearby area while alive. Can also be utilized rarely when dead.

>Well, it's better than it used to be. This could actually be pretty useful in an invasion or something depending on the range. "MADIGAN SAYS FORM UP AT THE BANK, MOVE IT!"

That's one use I foresaw, and I hope Performance Bards might see some use out of it.

>Will Nexus affect Lunar mana?

Maybe? Haven't decided yet.

>With sufficient skill, will the boosts from Nexus/Blessing of the Fae be enough that it will be worth it for a bard to use them to help themselves when casting spells? Or are these only enchantes that can be used to help others?

Maybe. In general I'd not expect too much here, there is definitely still bard stuff geared more towards assisting others. You won't get to what Magic 2.0 Cleric POM is doing, that's for sure.


-Z
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re: Tentative Bard Magic 3.0 Spell List on 10/18/2010 08:07 PM CDT
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Very, very good list. I am excited!


>>Hodierna's Lilt
>>Basic Cyclic Augmentation. Restores Vitality, Fatigue, Spirit in area. No real change.

To chime in with others I love Spirit healing coming back, but am curious if this is at the loss of concentration restoration.

>>Faenella's Grace
>>Introductory Cyclic Augmentation. Improves teaching/scholar and slightly improves speed of classes in area. No real change.

Will this lose the legacy effect of boosting Arcane skill only for the purpose of reading spell scrolls?

>>Resonance
>>Advanced Augmentation. Improves weapon you cast it on and brings it back into caster's hand anytime dropped.

What do you mean by 'improves weapon'? Does it improve our skill with that weapon skill? Or does it actually enhance the weapon itself like the Paladin spell Rutilor's Edge?

>>Nexus
>>Esoteric Cyclic Augmentation. Area Global Mana booster.

Is Nexus losing it's Primary Magic skill boosting effect?

>>Eillie's Cry
>>Introductory Utility. Allows a bard to shout a message to the nearby area while alive. Can also be utilized rarely when dead.

What does 'utilized rarely' actually mean? Will there be a skill check? Or just a timer on reuse? Also will we still get the notice of how many, if any, Bards in the area hear the cry for help?

General Thoughts:
-Could either Nexus or Blessings of the Fae be made into a castable spell? Having two spells that boost mana is great, but having both as cyclic spells limits the use a Bard can get out of using them.
-I noticed only two stat boosts amongst all of our spells. I thought guilds were going to be able to boost three stats? Or is it two because of being magic secondary?
-Will we be able to cast some of our castable spells on others? Or will they have to remain in our group to get any effects from our spells?


I think I ended up posting more than I wanted, but I am really excited about reading this list. I havn't been this jazzed about Bard magic since we left Magic 1.0!
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re: Tentative Bard Magic 3.0 Spell List on 10/18/2010 08:20 PM CDT
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> This reads as "I would like to not be able to use a nice combat spell so that I can instead use the cyclic slot to buff myself, when I could have just buffed myself without it being cyclic under the proposed plan." I don't think that's what you actually want though.

Well, it depends on what the buff does. I'd want it to do enough to justify devoting my cyclic to it. I like the new plan, though, with traditional buffs and cyclic debuffs.

>Yes, because it can stop a TM spell from being cast entirely.

Gotcha. Non-ablative?

>I will fancy up the messaging some but we'll probably want to avoid this being too spammy also.

One thing I'd suggest would be some "You missed" line if you don't hit any of the targets.

>In general I'd not expect too much here, there is definitely still bard stuff geared more towards assisting others.

Fair enough.

>pulses to groupmates.

That's a nifty mechanic.
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re: Tentative Bard Magic 3.0 Spell List on 10/18/2010 08:21 PM CDT
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>>Faenella's Grace
>>Introductory Cyclic Augmentation. Improves teaching/scholar and slightly improves speed of classes in area. No real change.

>Will this lose the legacy effect of boosting Arcane skill only for the purpose of reading spell scrolls?

No. I actually didn't realize it was there so it didn't make it into the list :P

>>Nexus
>>Esoteric Cyclic Augmentation. Area Global Mana booster.

>Is Nexus losing it's Primary Magic skill boosting effect?

Probably the same deal.

>-Could either Nexus or Blessings of the Fae be made into a castable spell? Having two spells that boost mana is great, but having both as cyclic spells limits the use a Bard can get out of using them.

Unlikely, as the desire is for Bards to shine in group situations still.

>-I noticed only two stat boosts amongst all of our spells. I thought guilds were going to be able to boost three stats? Or is it two because of being magic secondary?

All guilds have three stats in their sphere. It is not guaranteed they will actually start with spells that boost said stats. This is more about conversion and less about 'a lot of new spells'.

>>>Eillie's Cry
>>Introductory Utility. Allows a bard to shout a message to the nearby area while alive. Can also be utilized rarely when dead.

>What does 'utilized rarely' actually mean? Will there be a skill check? Or just a timer on reuse? Also will we still get the notice of how many, if any, Bards in the area hear the cry for help?

It means you can only do it every X time period to avoid you spamming everyone around you while you're dead.

>Also will we still get the notice of how many, if any, Bards in the area hear the cry for help?

Um.. if you really want? It won't be limited to Bards hearing you though.

>-Will we be able to cast some of our castable spells on others?

They will all be personal only in this list.

-Z
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re: Tentative Bard Magic 3.0 Spell List on 10/18/2010 08:26 PM CDT
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Looks great and thanks for the responses already.
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re: Tentative Bard Magic 3.0 Spell List on 10/18/2010 08:30 PM CDT
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Thanks for all the quick replies! I'm really glad to be having all this discussion going into a huge change for Bards (and DR as a whole).

If we happen to notice other random spell effects that we currently have but that aren't in your list, should we post them? Bardic magic is currently so convoluted I'd be surprised if even all the elder Bards know all of the possible effects to all our songs.

>>>Also will we still get the notice of how many, if any, Bards in the area hear the cry for help?
>>Um.. if you really want? It won't be limited to Bards hearing you though.

Wow! It's always been just other Bards hearing in the past so I assumed! Since everyone will be hearing, will we get a notice of how many heard our cry for help, or no one as the case my be? Also, is there any word on this spell working in currently buggy areas such as the Viper area near Stone Clan?
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re: Tentative Bard Magic 3.0 Spell List on 10/18/2010 08:33 PM CDT
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>If we happen to notice other random spell effects that we currently have but that aren't in your list, should we post them?

Please.

>Wow! It's always been just other Bards hearing in the past so I assumed! Since everyone will be hearing, will we get a notice of how many heard our cry for help, or no one as the case my be?

A "somebody heard you" or "nobody heard you" is a pretty reasonable request.

-Z
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re: Tentative Bard Magic 3.0 Spell List on 10/18/2010 08:38 PM CDT
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I normally write super long analytical posts and stuff, but I see no real need to here. I am totally speechless at how awesome this list looks.

I just wanted to give an incredibly huge THANK YOU for such a well thought out array of spells. I could not be happier and I cannot think of a point in time where I have been happier to be a Bard.

I cannot wait to play with these bad boys in the midst of new combat and new lore.

P.S. if you could just make the TM damage messaging stuff look/sound cool that would be super awesome and very much appreciated.

<3

__
~Leilond
http://www.elanthipedia.com/wiki/Leilond
http://soundsoftime.bravehost.com
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re: Tentative Bard Magic 3.0 Spell List on 10/18/2010 08:40 PM CDT
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>>If we happen to notice other random spell effects that we currently have but that aren't in your list, should we post them?

> Please.

Current Siren's is also an area effect debilitation. Anyone hit loses the ability to retreat. This is actually inconvenient, since you need to sing it loudly to summon critters. So PCs wandering by will get hit, which can be a problem if critters start at pole.

Current Sanctuary prevents the Hunt verb from seeing in or out of the room.
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re: Tentative Bard Magic 3.0 Spell List on 10/18/2010 08:45 PM CDT
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> I just wanted to give an incredibly huge THANK YOU for such a well thought out array of spells. I could not be happier and I cannot think of a point in time where I have been happier to be a Bard.

Let me chime in on this. Despite any nitpicky comments I'm giving, I am very excited about this. Thank you Z for posting this.
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re: Tentative Bard Magic 3.0 Spell List on 10/18/2010 08:46 PM CDT
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I like the no retreat thing for Siren, personally. Sometimes it's annoying with PCs, but I like it for critters.

One effect of Drums (I believe) is lowered RT for picking and disarming. I'm not sure if that's a result of the AGI boost directly or it's own thing.




-=Issus=-
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re: Tentative Bard Magic 3.0 Spell List on 10/18/2010 09:00 PM CDT
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>>What do you mean by 'improves weapon'? Does it improve our skill with that weapon skill? Or does it actually enhance the weapon itself like the Paladin spell Rutilor's Edge?

Good question. Also, just because this was a thing with the old version: If this is a rank boost to the weapon skill, please make it so weapons of multiple types get a boost for both type (LE/LT, for example). If it improves the stats of the weapon, that won't be an issue!

-=Issus=-
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re: Tentative Bard Magic 3.0 Spell List on 10/18/2010 09:04 PM CDT
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P.P.S. Harmony as it exists now will bring you to your feet occasionally. I don't really mind that it's not there, just thought I'd make you aware incase you weren't.

__
~Leilond
http://www.elanthipedia.com/wiki/Leilond
http://soundsoftime.bravehost.com
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re: Tentative Bard Magic 3.0 Spell List on 10/18/2010 09:39 PM CDT
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>>
Abandoned Heart
Esoteric Cyclic Debilitation. Area effect Charm vs Fortitude. Debuffs Discipline, Stamina, Strength. Drains fatigue and spirit.
<<

Question, as this enchante drains spirit will it also have a TM check for spirit death?

__
~Leilond
http://www.elanthipedia.com/wiki/Leilond
http://soundsoftime.bravehost.com
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re: Tentative Bard Magic 3.0 Spell List on 10/18/2010 10:09 PM CDT
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I'd like to ask questions on specific spells later, but I had an interesting idea/question regarding Bard's and cyclic spells...

Since cyclic spells are the Bard's "sphere of influence", any chance we can see an ability (for points under the new system) to keep two or more cyclic spells active at the same time? Perhaps limit it to the same "book" or "books" of similar tone?
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re: Tentative Bard Magic 3.0 Spell List on 10/18/2010 10:54 PM CDT
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Oh, a few other questions about Bard magic in general with this change. How will Bards interact with other Bard's songs with this change? Currently two Bards can have their songs class when performing, causing one or both to loose their spells. Can this go away? Also if another Bard is currently performing a song and a second Bard tries to start that same song they get the message about 'helping' the first Bard. (I don't think it actually does help, but that's just me). Will two Bards be able to perform the same cyclic spell? Thanks again!
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re: Tentative Bard Magic 3.0 Spell List on 10/19/2010 01:16 AM CDT
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any way of adding a swimming boost to merelew's? seems it is within the idea of the enchante, and the idea of bards being able to wander all over spreading news, etc.


Also, I have categorized all the enchantes based on what they are listed as: being as all types of magic will have to be trained <the split of PM>, any chance in filling in some of the gaps? Particularly warding, which lists no introductory or basic enchantes/spells.


TypeAugmentationDebilitationTargetWardingUtility
IntroFaenellaGAlbredaBalmnone**noneAlbredaBalm
xxxxxxxxAetherWolvesxxxxxxxxCaressSun
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxTongues
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxEllies
BasicHodierna'snone*BreathStorms*none**none
xxxxMerelew'sxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
AdvancedRagedamarislullPhoenixPyreTearsDrums
xxxxResonanceDemrrisxxxxRedeemersKertigen
xxxxMisdirectionxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
EsotericHarmonymadmennoneGlythtide'sSanctuary
xxxxNexusAbandonHeartxxxxxxxxSiren
xxxxBlessFaexxxxxxxxxxxxMaelstrom






You've seen life through distorted eyes;You know you had to learn;The execution of your mind;You really had to turn;,the book is read,The end begins to show,The truth is out, the lies are old, But you don't want to know - Black Sabbath

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re: Tentative Bard Magic 3.0 Spell List on 10/19/2010 01:32 AM CDT
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> any way of adding a swimming boost to merelew's

That's what it does. Athletics is the merger of climbing and swimming.
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re: Tentative Bard Magic 3.0 Spell List on 10/19/2010 02:27 AM CDT
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Ok loving these so far, I have to digest them a bit and come back with comments. Woot! :)
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re: Tentative Bard Magic 3.0 Spell List on 10/19/2010 03:14 AM CDT
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While I don't play a bard, I try to look at bigger pictures when it comes to DR development. I want to compliment the GMs for building a great developmental theme around Bard Magic 3.0. The buffs and group mechanics behind their magical abilities not only help to make playing a bard desirable, it fills a hole that DR was missing.

Great job you all. Thanks.

Nikpack
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re: Tentative Bard Magic 3.0 Spell List on 10/19/2010 05:33 AM CDT
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Current Lilt has a FA boost.
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re: Tentative Bard Magic 3.0 Spell List on 10/19/2010 06:45 AM CDT
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>>...any chance in filling in some of the gaps? Particularly warding, which lists no introductory or basic enchantes/spells.

This just means there won't be any exceptionally easy Warding spells/enchantes right out the gate. This isn't necessarily a bad thing as there will be Anagolous Warding spells which are introductoary/basic IIRC.

Also this is basically just a conversion(freaking awesome conversion) of our pre-existing stuff. I wouldn't worry too much about what we don't have now, as there is much room for expansion in the future :)

__
~Leilond
http://www.elanthipedia.com/wiki/Leilond
http://soundsoftime.bravehost.com
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re: Tentative Bard Magic 3.0 Spell List on 10/19/2010 08:45 AM CDT
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Only going to comment on spells that I have questions about. If I don't list them here I'm happy they're staying the same way or completely content in their new function. That being said, this is a terrific change to how Bard magic works and as others have said, makes it desirable to play one.

>Faenella's Grace
I feel like this cyclic needs something else behind it to make it really awesome. Perhaps a learning stat boost or something similar at the high end (mana wise)?

>Naming of Tears
Not sure if this actually boosted parry before but it's worth asking if it'll still be there. Otherwise, awesome change, I love the new mechanic of pulsating static spells.

>Redeemer's Pride
Feel like it could use something extra but I'm happy it adds the Will defense.

>Sanctuary
Awesome, wow. Pushing my luck but any chance it could forestall violence in the area like a banner?

>Albreda's Balm
What happens when a new person walks in the room? Are they not affected at all or each new person gets contested once until they leave?

>Call of the Siren
Since Sanctuary covers the quiet aspect of this spell, perhaps a better idea would be that both quiet and loud increase generation rate while quiet prevents critters from retreating and loud prevents/contests everyone in the room from retreating (save the caster of course).

>Desert's Maelstrom
Love this spell, any chance we can toggle on/off the garbage collection?

>Caress of the Sun
Very glad to see this become a 0-slot spell. Any chance it will retain the defense against water/ice spells? Also never knew if this worked before, but can this spell allow wayerd pyramids to work regardless of time?

>Resonance
Awesome change, love it. I really -really- hope it works with stackable throwing blades, please? Pushing my luck, could this work with ranged weapons in such a way to rip the ammunition out of the target and reload it (with regular load times of course)?

>Phoenix's Pyre
Always loved this spell, glad to see it's getting some oomph. Nice fatigue damage addition.

>Harmony
Excellent change, will be nice to have Harmony, Resonance, and Rage all on at the same time. Bravo.

>Breath of Storms
Awesome, would be nifty to have a synergy with a cyclic spell but I think synergies are going away.

>Merelew's Legacy
Nice, will be more useful now for sure. Will the defense against fire magic be staying?

>Nexus
Would love to see this benefit the bard as much as others. Currently (not the rewrite) it seems more of a boon for everyone else.

>Eye of Kertigen
Will it knock those in hiding/invis out of concealment at the high-end of success?

>Demrris' Resolve
Sick, not sure if the current version stuns but I like it even more now.

>Glythtide's Joy
Like the change. Still cause roundtime at high-end success? Will this interfere with the preparation, target, or the cast stage?

>Aether Wolves
Nice rewrite, quite useful now.

>Blessing of the Fae
Same question as Nexus. Although I liked the idea behind Nagas, Fae does seem more fitting.

>Aura of Tongues
Would like it more if it weren't cyclic. Probably one I won't be getting (which is ok, not all spells are for everyone).

>Misdirection
Any chance this can contest/debuff perception of new players/critters that wander in? Other than that, awesome change.

>Chorus of Madmen
Always loved the idea behind this enchante, hope it gets some oomph as it's esoteric.

>Eillie's Cry
Would be even better if it were a meta-spell that allowed you to shout at the cost of mana or as if you'd cast it. Previous usage was built around it being used when you were about to die or had died. I think if you could use this faster than casting a spell it'd be better used for old uses and the expanded functions it will have.

>Abandoned Heart
Wow, awesome. Any chance for vitality hit at high-end success?

I know this probably isn't the place, but how will cyclics be "played" in the new magic/skill merger? Will instrumental/vocal skills factor into the magic ranks that the spell/cyclic uses?

I thought I heard somewhere about instruments being combined in some way (curious on what's being merged). Although I like the idea of playing an enchante/cyclic with an instrument instead of singing it, it doesn't allow for full utilization of it by the caster (which I think it should).

TL;DR - Great job, love the list. Thanks for all the hard work, truly impressed.
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re: Tentative Bard Magic 3.0 Spell List on 10/19/2010 10:01 AM CDT
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>>Faenella's Grace
I feel like this cyclic needs something else behind it to make it really awesome. Perhaps a learning stat boost or something similar at the high end (mana wise)?

I doubt this really needs anything else, actually. It boosts the teacher's Teaching, the student's Scholarship, and increases the speed of classes (I assume how fast the class pulses). All of that adds up to a significant boost to a classroom, which is the song's niche. Adding an extra Int modifier might make it useful in more situations, but I don't see a pressing need for it.

Killing you softly with his song,
- Stormsinger Shavay


Faerie tales do not tell children that dragons exist. Children already know dragons exist. Faerie tales tell children that dragons can be killed.
- G.K. Chesterton
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re: Tentative Bard Magic 3.0 Spell List on 10/19/2010 10:56 AM CDT
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I am greatly enthusiastic to see these changes implemented. I agree that it really helps us to fill that missing niche in DR, one that i think we were always suppose to fill anyways. Everything seems to be greatly thought out and complements the other aspects of 3.0(for Bards) tremendously well. Thank you, to all involved.

Regards,
Vteec

PS <<I like the no retreat thing for Siren, personally. Sometimes it's annoying with PCs, but I like it for critters.

Agreed, it is great in helping to train hiding, and also i like to watch people semi-freak out when they cant leave my room.
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re: Tentative Bard Magic 3.0 Spell List on 10/19/2010 11:28 AM CDT
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I really like the division of the spells as suggested and am really loving the self only pulsing to group members aspect.

Rather than all of our spells being AOE and applying effects to the whole room I'm glad to see this distinction between our truly AOE spells and the ones which are primarily self only, but have the functionality to pulse towards close group members. I think that is a very important division point which was necessary in order to make Bards more than just party companions.

Rather than QUIET/LOUD mechanics I'm assuming our AOE spells will adopt the traditional AOE cast mechanics of ENGAGED/AREA/CREATURE?

If someone could please refresh my memory, but Introductory/Basic/Advanced/Esoteric level descriptions only really have a hand in determining functionality and spell difficulty, yes?

__
~Leilond
http://www.elanthipedia.com/wiki/Leilond
http://soundsoftime.bravehost.com
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re: Tentative Bard Magic 3.0 Spell List on 10/19/2010 11:32 AM CDT
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Functionality / what effects it can do and difficulty as far as I remember.
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re: Tentative Bard Magic 3.0 Spell List on 10/19/2010 11:45 AM CDT
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<<Aether Wolves>>
<<Introductory Cyclic Debilitation. Magic vs Fortitude Area Immobilization + damage to attunement stat (not skill).>>

Unless the time between pulses is extremely long (on the order of minutes) and the immobilization is very short (a small handful of seconds), this kinda looks like an Immobilizer of indefinite duration. That would be so obnoxious on the receiving end that I think even critters would come complaining about it...how will this be resolved?

Thanks,
-Death's Nemesis Karthor
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re: Tentative Bard Magic 3.0 Spell List on 10/19/2010 11:53 AM CDT
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Probably by Bards cheering that they have something that other people fear / are jealous of?

No spell will allow people to be completely unable to act for long periods of time.

-Z
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re: Tentative Bard Magic 3.0 Spell List on 10/19/2010 12:00 PM CDT
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<<Probably by Bards cheering that they have something that other people fear / are jealous of?

I <3 you Z.
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re: Tentative Bard Magic 3.0 Spell List on 10/19/2010 12:03 PM CDT
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>>Probably by Bards cheering that they have something that other people fear / are jealous of?

<3

__
~Leilond
http://www.elanthipedia.com/wiki/Leilond
http://soundsoftime.bravehost.com
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re: Tentative Bard Magic 3.0 Spell List on 10/19/2010 12:25 PM CDT
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Okay. Now that I've read the list, I have a few comments and analysis for y'all.

Comments:

1. Omg... RAGE + TEAR + EYE + RESO + HARM + DRUM + MISD + PRIDE + Your choice of Cyclic + AoE stun/knockdown as needed without losing buffs = OMG! I just crapped my pants! Thank you!
2. No more comments. The above is enough to describe my overall joy. Bards now have a decent set of core buffs and we can modify the flavour of our combat by utilising the cyclic spell of our choice. I am happy.

Analysis:
In no particular order, and discounting things that have shifted from one enchante to another or exist in a modified form the following is a list of things we gained and lost.
I have bolded the stuff in the 'Things We Lose' column that I would really like to see kept in some form. The ones I haven't bolded are either meh abilities or ones that have been replaced in some other acceptable to me format.

Things we gain**Things we lose
Spririt RegenConcentration Regen (LILT)
Barrier vs. WillFirst Aid Bonus (LILT)
Stealth PreventionTending RT reduction (LILT)
TM/offence/defence debuffArcana boost for scrolls (FAE)
melee/ranged accuracy(Multi Opponent boost (PRIDE)
reflex boost (yay!)Anti*-*Retreat*/*Leave (SIRE)
weapon stat improvementWeapon skill boost (RESO/RAGE)
a practical weapon bondBalance debuff (DEMA)
holy/lunar/life/arcane mana boosterbarrier vs. water magic (CARE)
swimming boost (as part of athletics)Severe weather protection(CARE)
AoE stunDropping cursed items (RESO)
attunement damageGeneral offence/defence boost (HARM)
short-distance communicationBarrier vs. Fire magic (MERE)
STR/STA debuffSnuffing of fires? Not sure about this one...(MERE)
spirit damagePrimary Magic boost (NEXUS)
Auto point (EYE)
Ability to force a retreat (AEWO)
Lockpicking*/*Disarming RT reduction (DRUM)
Auto*-*rise from Prone (HARM)


-Evran
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