Background: I played a Cleric to around 100th back in 2008-9 and loved it. Left DR, returned recently to play another Cleric and am struggling. I'm going to try to not make this a rant, but I'm afraid there's no way around it.

Theurgy and Communes are horrible now. Words can't express how horrible. Where I used to have communes that were actually useful (Tamsine/Eluned offense/defense buff), now I find my Cleric a glorified water fountain.

Theurgy/Communes seem to be in this horrible sort of circular logic, where Theurgy exists to power communes that only exist to train Theurgy. I use Merauds to sanctify a room so I can do more devotionals, and Eluneds just serves to provide water for more rituals.

I could hunt undead and use Kertigen's and Tamsines, but there are none in my combat range.

I guess the purpose of my rant/question/whatever... is there a governing theme or purpose to Communes/Theurgy other than 'Make water every 6 minutes to prove your piety'

>With that said, I think its just adjustment on our part. Change our mind sets, change our training styles, change the way we gain devotion.

Pretty much this. I stopped playing my cleric for a year or two because I didn't like the new magic system or the new theurgy/devotion system. Once I sat down and figured both out, devotion really isn't any worse to train than, say, primary magic. DR is turtles all the way down as far as 'why am I even training this skill' goes. You train everything so you can whack bigger monsters so you can train faster so you can whack bigger monsters, etc.

Also remember that most players in pre 3.0 land didn't bother using communes. They walked around with full devotion 99% of the time, which wasn't the real intent.

Theurgy still irritates me because it requires physical items and special locations and is on a timer and requires a resource which also has all of these limits.

Bear in mind most every guild (No Paladins yet) has a guild specific skill which is required to level but isn't particularly useful. They are all planned to be fleshed out and 'worth training' at some point. What Theurgy currently does, off the top of my head, is reduce the timer on performing more communes, and give you a bigger output on quantifiable ones (more water, better rezz odds, etc.). It basically takes the place of 'level' in the old calculations, which is somewhat nice. It's a skill you can train to get better at communes as opposed to 'level up nub'.

As far as combat goes, post your ranks, there's probably something cursed/undead suitable for you. I personally recommend avoiding the undead ladder until Meys or togballs, it's more annoying than anything till then. But togballs are the most awesome critter ever. Or if you don't want to post your ranks, try the wiki, if you haven't (elanthipedia.play.net)

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I'm a badger, I be badgerin'

Does anyone know if you have to make your own beads for the prayer bead ritual?

I don't think so, but I'm not sure.

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I'm a badger, I be badgerin'

I'm not having any trouble training Theurgy, I just hate it. I also hate that it's yet ONE MORE thing Dragonrealms is forcing me to script. When I try to just 'play' I find myself missing timers (because the communes are useless) and sitting on 0 Theurgy learning (because rituals don't teach), but as soon as I turn on my script to track/maximize all those timers...I'm golden. Good job developers.

But I understand how to train the skill, that's not really what the complaint is for. I'm complaining because it's a worthless skill that exists solely to exist and be trained. Oh wait, higher Theurgy means Eluneds makes MOAR WATER. I can become a better water fountain! Or Meraud's lasts longer so I can send more critters into the afterlife with glittery style.

As far as hunting, I'm currently at 80-100s in combats, hunting blood wolves...planning on trying moss meys soon as these cap, maybe by then I'll find a use for the Theurgy skill.

80-100's in combats: Skeletal/Zombie Kobolds, Darkmist Moors (in the Church), Shard, Ilithi Province
120(ish) in combats: Mutant Togballs, Boar Clan, Forfedhar Province
Graduate from there to Lithe/Stumpy/Giant Blight Ogres, Boar Clan, Forefedhar Province
230(ish) in combats: Option for Adan'f Blood Warriors/Shadow Mages, Shard, Ilithi Province
375 (ish) in combats: Currently questionable depending on update of 3.0 hunting caps (and spawn rates)

If anyone knows a creature that is Cursed/Undead and becomes huntable around 350-375 in the Ilithi or Forfedhar province, that can be skinned and the area is HUNT capable, I'd love to hear about it. I'm unsure about Faenrae Assassins spawn or anything about them as of yet.

I currently update creatures on the wiki with apprasials and relevant stats as I progress through them, so this list can easily progress to simply checking the wiki in time. Every hunting area/creature I've listed here is Cursed/Undead, skinnable, drops boxes and you can use HUNT in the area. Hope this helps!

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If you act like prey, do not blame me for acting like the predator I am.
DR_Shaidval @ AIM

>The communes do the exact same thing they have always done.

No they don't. Prior to Eluneds creating water, it was a general defensive boost. Tamsine used to be a general offensive boost, now it's a TM bonus to undead. 2.0 Communes were always useful. Now they're situational and the majority of them are only used for the sole purpose of training the skill, not for their benefits. The commune system isn't fully fleshed out in its current state, sure it's usable but that's not the complaint.

>No. It powers communes. Just because the tie ins are limited at this moment, and don't give you a combat 'I win' button, doesn't mean it is worthless.

If the purpose of using communes is to just learn the Theurgy skill, then there's very little, if any, usefulness. I find zero usefulness in Tamsine, Kertigen, Eluned II, Gylthide, and Truffenyi. The only commune that has any worth to me besides exp is Merauds because it's not situational. Since learning the communes I've never once needed, wanted, or even used Kertigen, Eluned II, and Truffenyi. I've used Gylthide once, to make a divorce rose for someone but I could care less if it were removed. I only even use Eluneds I so that I always have holy water available for Merauds.


Amiron says, "Even a mute would have said something about this amount of people being about."

I have not attempted to train theurgy since it came out. I get some residual learning from the occasional eluned for water for the occasional Merauds, but otherwise I have zero use for any of the communes. While I get that it is "not fully fleshed out" why both releasing it at all until it is? For small clerics its a pain, especially before marauds, and for high clerics, they just aren't needed except for circling(kinda like requiring comp science majors to always have philosophy classes) and TDP's. Just not worth the bother.

Is is truth, I haven't felt any need to use any commune (With the possible exception of Truffenyi's, but that isn't for mechanical reasons) except for training purposes which renders it a rather pointless skill. If the only point of using the skill is to train the skill than enough is missing that it should never have been released.

It made some sense to have communes and devotion prior to Theurgy. If you wanted the extra benefits afforded by the communes, you paid the price. Otherwise you didn't use them. No harm, no foul. Now we are forced to use them and pay the price to train a skill that doesn't actually do anything for us. Are we being punished for something?

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If you act like prey, do not blame me for acting like the predator I am.
DR_Shaidval @ AIM

>Now we are forced to use them and pay the price to train a skill that doesn't actually do anything for us. Are we being punished for something?

There was a design decision that all guilds would get their own skill. From what I can tell, the only qualifier was that each skill had to have a method to TRAIN it, not that it needed to be useful.

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Weapons for Sale:
https://elanthipedia.play.net/mediawiki/index.php/User:CARAAMON#Wares
Hunta Talna Kortok, built by Gor'Togs, for Gor'Togs
http://www.angelfire.com/rpg2/caraamon/home.html

I thought Kertigen's was a more buffer version of the standard bless? But that's not all that worthwhile to most Clerics?

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"I think anything that forces you to do something no sane adventurer would do just in order to train is ridiculous."
DR-SOCHARIS

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Victory Over Lyras, on the 397th year and 156 days since the Victory of Lanival the Redeemer.

>I thought Kertigen's was a more buffer version of the standard bless? But that's not all that worthwhile to most Clerics?

No, I don't hunt Undead and if I have to kill one I'll just cast Bless if I need to hit it with weapons.

Amiron says, "Even a mute would have said something about this amount of people being about."

Nope.

Theurgy training is miserable before Merauds.

Several guilds have a distinct lack of feasible training before a relatively low circle, like 30th. It sucks, but apparently 'everyone is past that point'.

Bear in mind, too, that while you were trying to lock the skill, some of it was draining. So maybe you started at 10.00 0/34 but you ended up at 13.29 12/34. Obviously I'm making up worthless numbers here, just an example. Some skills, especially in the primary skillset, can be very hard to lock when the character is low level. I have a low circle empath who only locks empathy in extreme situations--e.g., triage in invasions. And traders without work orders, heh, well... thank goodness for work orders. Just keep the skill going at least a little and you'll circle fine.

I do think training and usefulness could be improved, I agree with the posts here. But you're not spending an hour and just gaining 12/34--some of what you've been doing for that hour turned into real ranks.

Theurgy is a magic skill, and it's easy to train. You get a pretty nice benefit out of training Theurgy, especially using Kertigen and Meraud's. It can be trained in combat and grows with you. I don't get the beef. Speaking for myself, it adds a nice distinction between prep/harness/cast.

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Theurgy is a magic skill, and it's easy to train. You get a pretty nice benefit out of training Theurgy, especially using Kertigen and Meraud's. It can be trained in combat and grows with you. I don't get the beef. Speaking for myself, it adds a nice distinction between prep/harness/cast.

Meraud's is the one I'll use as often as possible for the increased room mana. The others just sit there, as another tool in my toolbox waiting to see the light of day. Except they haven't, that's the beef with Theurgy and communes.

Amiron says, "Even a mute would have said something about this amount of people being about."

Regarding holy oil: Buy (or steal, if you have even a few ranks and your character lacks that morality) regular oil from a regular alchemy shop (e.g., Chizili's in Crossing), then bless it.

I don't use Kertigen's much; it creates fewer strikes at my circle than a capped Bless. I'm not sure if it's still entirely circle-based on the number of strikes since Theurgy came out. The damage bonus definitely exists, I've run numbers on it before. But it's too small for me to generally trouble with when I can either bless myself or get 400 strikes on my weapon. That said, sometimes I do use it solely for the color. I like the white flash more than the color I get for being aligned to a positive aspect. That's a pretty minor bonus, though.

>The only reasonable argument I've heard against beads is that

Personally, I find the creation process a bit irksome.

I wish it was streamlined a little to 'forage branch, make bead' without the interstitial steps of bless/water/carve block.

Could someone remind me, I'm having a stupid, are block aprons available anywhere except Muspari?

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I'm a badger, I be badgerin'

>...block aprons? There are a stacker for blocks in game?! !!!

>https://elanthipedia.play.net/mediawiki/index.php/Misenseor_Goods_(4)#Abbot.27s_Blessings

>https://elanthipedia.play.net/mediawiki/index.php/Cleric_Shop_(Muspar%27i)

Only two sources of them I'm aware of.

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I'm a badger, I be badgerin'

>>are block aprons available anywhere except Muspari?

Sadly not, except from the fest shop that you linked.

I "like" carving beads (as much as anyone can enjoy a lore IMO) due to the fact it's something I can do in combat without having to retreat. I keep a couple wallets in my backpack and refill them from time to time. I liked the apron because it was worn in a generic slot, but Uritel in an apron.. eh. Wallets shoved in a backpack will suffice.

However I just generally use Truffenyi for beads and then drop the rest. I guess I could use them for devotion, just personally not a fan of kneeling in combat. I'll give it a try though. It might encourage me to use Meraud's more often - I typically just use Eluned/Tasmine/Truffenyi over and over as they are the least mat "heavy" when it comes to devotion. Change dirt to water (Eluned), use water for Tasmine, then carve beads and use said beads for Truffenyi and toss the orbs/leftover beads. Not the most efficient way of working theurgy, but I don't have to worry about keeping a constant supply of incense and stuff on hand so it helps keep inventory count down.

Also, please remove the random element to Sirese seeds, or dramatically increase the level of devotion planting them gives. Because ridiculousness:


>.gather
[Script gather is running, Esc to cancel, Shift-Esc to pause]
>gather seed
You come up empty handed.
Roundtime: 5 seconds.
>gather seed
You come up empty handed.
Roundtime: 5 seconds.
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You come up empty handed.
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You've gained a new rank in maneuvering with a shield.
>gather seed
You come up empty handed.
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You come up empty handed.
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The reflective stars orbiting Gnimm's right forearm gleam as their surfaces catch the light and reflect it at varying angles.
>gather seed
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Tinkerer Jhesili just arrived.
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Tinkerer Jhesili runs north.
>gather seed
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Roundtime: 5 seconds.
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>gather seed
A sturdy caravan arrives from the north.
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The sturdy caravan moves south.
>gather seed
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>gather seed
You come up empty handed.
Roundtime: 5 seconds.
>gather seed
You come up empty handed.
Roundtime: 5 seconds.
>gather seed
You find a tiny sirese seed and carefully collect it.
Roundtime: 7 seconds.