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Every day is a good day to remove ethnic slurs from GemStone.
https://www.entsoc.org/entomological-society-america-discontinues-use-gypsy-moth-ant-names
I'm sorry. Have you heard this before? I was gone for a while, so coming back recently and seeing a slur in the game surprised me. I'd expect that will continue to occur with new/returning players. You may want to prepare yourself to see this request from time to time. Or, it could just be removed, and you wouldn't have to be bothered. :)
"I was gone for a while, so coming back recently and seeing a slur in the game surprised me. I'd expect that will continue to occur with new/returning players." -- Yipsy
I agree with this, particularly because these players won't have knowledge of what went down and the decisions that staff made at that time.
Perhaps an official policy/document can be created that we can refer new players to when they have questions/concerns?
For example with "crusade" and the decision by staff to revert it.
"We examined the word crusade and made the decision to allow this word to exist."
Versus someone seeing it and then goes "do they even know?"
I agree with this, particularly because these players won't have knowledge of what went down and the decisions that staff made at that time.
Perhaps an official policy/document can be created that we can refer new players to when they have questions/concerns?
For example with "crusade" and the decision by staff to revert it.
"We examined the word crusade and made the decision to allow this word to exist."
Versus someone seeing it and then goes "do they even know?"
Starchitin, I want to apologize for being flippant in my last comment. WINTERDAWN provided me some context regarding the history of this discussion, which I missed since I wasn't around last spring/summer. I now better understand the sentiment behind not wanting to rehash it all.
That said, I do think it is going to keep coming up, and I'll reiterate my own support for removing it. I don't think there's much need for players to argue with one another about it.
That said, I do think it is going to keep coming up, and I'll reiterate my own support for removing it. I don't think there's much need for players to argue with one another about it.
<Starchitin, I want to apologize for being flippant in my last comment. WINTERDAWN provided me some context regarding the history of this discussion, which I missed since I wasn't around last spring/summer. I now better understand the sentiment behind not wanting to rehash it all.>
If GS becomes yet another place where I start feeling like I'm stepping on egg-shells lest an innocent remark or emote "triggers" someone, I'm just cancelling my account. I had no intention of making any remarks beyond the last post, including clarifying my feelings.
That said, it would be nice if "woke" people actually considered that races and ethnicities that they're referring to in these complaints don't exist as such in Elanthia. Just about every word I've seen commented on has multiple definitions and/or broader use then what gets zeroed in on. If knee-jerk reactions dictate what's allowed in GS, it ain't gonna be long before we have no crackers for our soup and the monkeys are gone from the zoo...
Starchitin, the OG
A severed gnomish hand crawls in on its fingertips and makes a rude gesture before quickly decaying and rotting into dust. A gust of wind quickly scatters the dust.
If GS becomes yet another place where I start feeling like I'm stepping on egg-shells lest an innocent remark or emote "triggers" someone, I'm just cancelling my account. I had no intention of making any remarks beyond the last post, including clarifying my feelings.
That said, it would be nice if "woke" people actually considered that races and ethnicities that they're referring to in these complaints don't exist as such in Elanthia. Just about every word I've seen commented on has multiple definitions and/or broader use then what gets zeroed in on. If knee-jerk reactions dictate what's allowed in GS, it ain't gonna be long before we have no crackers for our soup and the monkeys are gone from the zoo...
Starchitin, the OG
A severed gnomish hand crawls in on its fingertips and makes a rude gesture before quickly decaying and rotting into dust. A gust of wind quickly scatters the dust.
As Starchitin pointed out, it becomes a slippery slope in regard to creative works when an attempt is made to "correct" them. Each revision is justified by the previous revision until the work is unrecognizable.
There are lots of games out there and there are plenty with content I don't agree with. I simply choose not to play those games. Same with books, movies, songs, etc. Gemstone in my opinion is a creative work and should be given some latitude in regard to its use of words.
There are lots of games out there and there are plenty with content I don't agree with. I simply choose not to play those games. Same with books, movies, songs, etc. Gemstone in my opinion is a creative work and should be given some latitude in regard to its use of words.
| As I gaze over the horizon, the wind tugs at my cloak and whispers, "Adventure" in my ear. |
| A squeaky halfling nearby asks, "Why you playing with orcs heads and troll rearends?!" |
Lets have a look the definition of this horrid word, shall we?
gyp·sy
/ˈjipsē/
Learn to pronounce
noun
1.
a member of a people originating in South Asia and traditionally having an itinerant way of life, living widely dispersed across Europe and North and South America and speaking a language (Romani) that is related to Hindi; a Romani person.
2.
a nomadic or free-spirited person.
"why should she choose to wander the world with a penniless gypsy like me?"
adjectiveDATED•INFORMAL
(of a business or business person) nonunion or unlicensed.
"gypsy trucking firms"
Since South Asia doesn't exist in GS, I'm going to assume they refer to the nomadic use of the word.
Let us look at another word found in GS that is also a racial slur.
crack·er | \ ˈkra-kər \
Definition of cracker
1chiefly dialectal : a bragging liar : BOASTER
2: something that makes a cracking or snapping noise: such as
a: FIRECRACKER
b: the snapping end of a whiplash : SNAPPER
c: a paper holder for a party favor that pops when the ends are pulled sharply
3crackers plural : NUTCRACKER
4: a dry thin crispy baked bread product that may be leavened or unleavened
5 aoffensive —used as an insulting and contemptuous term for a poor, white, usually Southern person
bsometimes offensive : a native or resident of Florida or Georgia —used as a nickname
Since the word cracker is also a racial slur, should we remove it from GS? Where do we draw the line when it comes to protecting people's feelings in a fantasy game?
Anything is considered offensive if you want to be offended by it. You didn't trigger anyone with your suggestion, you're just a year late to get on the band wagon.
Just like before, the term's a pejorative and it should go. There are better ways in our language to describe a nomadic people. Itinerant, errant, traveler, nomad, wayfarer, wanderer, rover, etc.
In the specific case of the fortuneteller NPC, who by fiat is also a problematic construct of ethnic/racial fetishizing anyway and that ought to go by the wayside as well, 'mysterious fortuneteller' probably works. Much prefer 'travelling fortuneteller' or just 'fortuneteller' without the squick.
-james, bristenn's player
In the specific case of the fortuneteller NPC, who by fiat is also a problematic construct of ethnic/racial fetishizing anyway and that ought to go by the wayside as well, 'mysterious fortuneteller' probably works. Much prefer 'travelling fortuneteller' or just 'fortuneteller' without the squick.
-james, bristenn's player
| You think to yourself, "FFF-" |
| A giant white bunny hurls a powerful lightning bolt at you! |
| You evade the bolt by a hair! |
I was going to come out with the suggestion of "nomadic diviner", but decided that then I was opening myself up to blast-back from descendants of the Eurasian steppes, and also anyone with a diabolic bent, like Satan worshipers.
.
As I said the last time this flared up--I think that was the whole 'crusade' kerfluffle--sometimes people should just let language be language.
.
As I said the last time this flared up--I think that was the whole 'crusade' kerfluffle--sometimes people should just let language be language.
Works of fiction are not real life.
No actual human being is being denigrated or insulted by the use of this word in this context. It is not being used as a slur and even if it was, the target is not a sentient being able to be bothered by it.
If it bothers you personally to see the word in print, highlight it the same color as your story window background. I have done it for terms that bother me, and you can do the same. That solves the problem without forcing onto everyone else your obsession to shrink the English language down until it fits in the newspeak dictionary. Because, we have already seen where this leads, the deletion of more and more "problematic words" (see crusader) and eventually wild charges of 'ism at anyone opposed to the ever increasing demands.
Sweet is the sound of the pouring rain,
And the stream that falls from the hill to plain.
Better than rain or rippling brook,
Is a mug of beer inside this Took.
No actual human being is being denigrated or insulted by the use of this word in this context. It is not being used as a slur and even if it was, the target is not a sentient being able to be bothered by it.
If it bothers you personally to see the word in print, highlight it the same color as your story window background. I have done it for terms that bother me, and you can do the same. That solves the problem without forcing onto everyone else your obsession to shrink the English language down until it fits in the newspeak dictionary. Because, we have already seen where this leads, the deletion of more and more "problematic words" (see crusader) and eventually wild charges of 'ism at anyone opposed to the ever increasing demands.
Sweet is the sound of the pouring rain,
And the stream that falls from the hill to plain.
Better than rain or rippling brook,
Is a mug of beer inside this Took.
Menos made an excellent suggestion that many players choose not to take advantage of. Wizard and Stormfront allow you to ignore words and strings of text and you can also do as he suggested and highlight terms you feel are offensive in black to remove them for yourself.
Folks that find the term offensive should address the issue themselves with the tools already provided.
Folks that find the term offensive should address the issue themselves with the tools already provided.
| As I gaze over the horizon, the wind tugs at my cloak and whispers, "Adventure" in my ear. |
| A squeaky halfling nearby asks, "Why you playing with orcs heads and troll rearends?!" |
I'll offer an alternative view here.
We are playing a fantasy game, yes. Much of what we are interacting with is not "real" and has no real world equivalent. There are many things that do, however. The sinking feeling that someone gets when they are confronted with intolerant attitudes, or words and slurs that are hurtful. I wouldn't care, in real life if the slur was directed at me, it's threatening and doesn't make a person feel safe or valued. Why does that have to carry into MY fantasy world, just because it is okay for someone else? Should I get over it? Should I toughen up? Should I swallow down hurt and pride that keeps stinging?
I can't speak for everyone else, but sometimes it isn't a "woke" statement, and sometimes it is frustration, resentment, and just plain exhaustion trying to get people to listen.
I don't care who it is directed at, it's not one person's world. It belongs to all of us. If it makes people feel anxious to walk on eggshells because someone might speak up, think about how it feels to live with it and be expected to keep your head down and suck it up. To be called dramatic or triggered when you try to communicate how you feel?
I can't speak for everyone, but I am telling everyone, that it's not just about what you personally feel. There is a lot of pain that is bleeding out right now. People are borderline demanding and begging for understanding.
If you are on the side that wants to keep people hurting, you should look at where you are standing.
No more deflection. Get your house in order.
There is already a simple and easy method to remove it for anyone so sensitive as to be hurt by the existence of the word gypsy in a context clearly not intended as insult to anything. The only downside to squelch as a solution is it doesn't give you the power to dictate to the entire population (both players and creatives) on what future words they can use in a game 100% based on word usage.
If we expunge gypsy because you are bothered by the presence of a word that is an insult in different context, we have accepted a standard that would strip away far more than one NPC name. More and more words will have to go. We know this because it happened last year over these same terms. Moreover, we know that people then who speak up for words that have other meanings important for their play (like crusade was for many) will be called slurs and be attacked. That is where this toxic obsession with language orthodoxy inevitably leads.
Sweet is the sound of the pouring rain,
And the stream that falls from the hill to plain.
Better than rain or rippling brook,
Is a mug of beer inside this Took.
Sweet is the sound of the pouring rain,
And the stream that falls from the hill to plain.
Better than rain or rippling brook,
Is a mug of beer inside this Took.
If we expunge gypsy because you are bothered by the presence of a word that is an insult in different context, we have accepted a standard that would strip away far more than one NPC name. More and more words will have to go. We know this because it happened last year over these same terms. Moreover, we know that people then who speak up for words that have other meanings important for their play (like crusade was for many) will be called slurs and be attacked. That is where this toxic obsession with language orthodoxy inevitably leads.
Sweet is the sound of the pouring rain,
And the stream that falls from the hill to plain.
Better than rain or rippling brook,
Is a mug of beer inside this Took.
Sweet is the sound of the pouring rain,
And the stream that falls from the hill to plain.
Better than rain or rippling brook,
Is a mug of beer inside this Took.
<I can't speak for everyone else, but sometimes it isn't a "woke" statement, and sometimes it is frustration, resentment, and just plain exhaustion trying to get people to listen.>
Just because someone doesn't agree with you does not mean they did not listen.
<If it makes people feel anxious to walk on eggshells because someone might speak up, think about how it feels to live with it and be expected to keep your head down and suck it up.>
And yet the ones that would enact censorship based on their personal feelings expect any that would disagree to keep their heads down and suck it up.
<it's not just about what you personally feel.>
Exactly. It's not just about how any of us personally feel.
<If you are on the side that wants to keep people hurting, you should look at where you are standing.>
I stand where I do precisely because I have been on both sides of the "hurt". I regularly see people that are "surprised" or "cannot understand" why people don't agree with them, that is far more of an indication that they have not looked at it from both sides then anything else.
Starchitin, the OG
A severed gnomish hand crawls in on its fingertips and makes a rude gesture before quickly decaying and rotting into dust. A gust of wind quickly scatters the dust.
Just because someone doesn't agree with you does not mean they did not listen.
<If it makes people feel anxious to walk on eggshells because someone might speak up, think about how it feels to live with it and be expected to keep your head down and suck it up.>
And yet the ones that would enact censorship based on their personal feelings expect any that would disagree to keep their heads down and suck it up.
<it's not just about what you personally feel.>
Exactly. It's not just about how any of us personally feel.
<If you are on the side that wants to keep people hurting, you should look at where you are standing.>
I stand where I do precisely because I have been on both sides of the "hurt". I regularly see people that are "surprised" or "cannot understand" why people don't agree with them, that is far more of an indication that they have not looked at it from both sides then anything else.
Starchitin, the OG
A severed gnomish hand crawls in on its fingertips and makes a rude gesture before quickly decaying and rotting into dust. A gust of wind quickly scatters the dust.
>I'll offer an alternative view here.
Huh, your post didn't seem to offer alternative views other than the normal "You're wrong unless you cater to me" mentality.
>We are playing a fantasy game, yes. Much of what we are interacting with is not "real" and has no real-world equivalent.
I agree fully
>Why does that have to carry into MY fantasy world, just because it is okay for someone else? Should I get over it? Should I toughen up? Should I swallow down hurt and pride that keeps stinging?
Get off LNET, problem solved. I've never seen RL racism slurs used in GS. Maybe it's the people you hang out with?
>I can't speak for everyone else, but sometimes it isn't a "woke" statement, and sometimes it is frustration, resentment, and just plain exhaustion trying to get people to listen.
Searching under every rock for any hint of racism isn't "woke", it's called being toxic. Some of the most racist people I've met proclaimed they were against racism.
>I don't care who it is directed at, it's not one person's world.
You're right, it's not one person's world. So why do you expect me to cater to your world?
>I can't speak for everyone, but I am telling everyone, that it's not just about what you personally feel.
This is a lie.
>To be called dramatic or triggered when you try to communicate how you feel?
I call it dramatic and triggered when you tell me I need to follow the beat of your drum and if I don't then I'm "racist".
>If you are on the side that wants to keep people hurting, you should look at where you are standing.
Let me translate - "If you don't agree with my views you're racist".
>No more deflection. Get your house in order
There is no deflection. A majority of the player base, and the US, are against racism. We also don't feel the need to turn over every stone looking for something to label as racist. As I stated before, if you want to remove the word "Gyspy" then you also need to remove "Cracker", "Dwarf", "Gnome", and "Halfling" since those are also racial slurs and/or derogatory labels for small people. I don't see you leading the charge on that. The best part of these posts are how hypocritical OPs paint themselves without knowing it.
If you don't like the word "Gypsy" then squelch it. Get over it and move on with your life or look else for a MUD that will suit your needs.
You know, maybe they're right. Maybe if we don't like something, we just remove it from our own game experience altogether.
That's one of the things I like when these conversations bring the Slippery Slope Crew up from their sewers- they reveal themselves and the rest of us can now take the necessary steps to arbitrate their existence.
Judging by all of the skipped numbers and unread post bugs I've been getting on this thread alone, it seems to be effective, like dropping Frollo from a rooftop.
-james, bristenn's player
That's one of the things I like when these conversations bring the Slippery Slope Crew up from their sewers- they reveal themselves and the rest of us can now take the necessary steps to arbitrate their existence.
Judging by all of the skipped numbers and unread post bugs I've been getting on this thread alone, it seems to be effective, like dropping Frollo from a rooftop.
-james, bristenn's player
| You think to yourself, "FFF-" |
| A giant white bunny hurls a powerful lightning bolt at you! |
| You evade the bolt by a hair! |
>That's one of the things I like when these conversations bring the Slippery Slope Crew up from their sewers- they reveal themselves and the rest of us can now take the necessary steps to arbitrate their existence.
AKA "Someone doesn't agree with me!? I'll passively insult them then make them pariahs!" Way to be tolerant.
<That's one of the things I like when these conversations bring the Slippery Slope Crew up from their sewers- they reveal themselves and the rest of us can now take the necessary steps to arbitrate their existence.>
When one fails to practice what they preach, they don't get many converts.
Starchitin, the OG
A severed gnomish hand crawls in on its fingertips and makes a rude gesture before quickly decaying and rotting into dust. A gust of wind quickly scatters the dust.
When one fails to practice what they preach, they don't get many converts.
Starchitin, the OG
A severed gnomish hand crawls in on its fingertips and makes a rude gesture before quickly decaying and rotting into dust. A gust of wind quickly scatters the dust.
Alright,
Since my post, there have been a few replies. I'll attempt to address some of this:
MENOS:
>There is already a simple and easy method to remove it for anyone so sensitive as to be hurt by the existence of the word gypsy in a context clearly not intended as insult to anything. The only downside to squelch as a solution is it doesn't give you the power to dictate to the entire population (both players and creatives) on what future words they can use in a game 100% based on word usage.
If we expunge gypsy because you are bothered by the presence of a word that is an insult in different context, we have accepted a standard that would strip away far more than one NPC name. More and more words will have to go. We know this because it happened last year over these same terms. Moreover, we know that people then who speak up for words that have other meanings important for their play (like crusade was for many) will be called slurs and be attacked. That is where this toxic obsession with language orthodoxy inevitably leads.<
This is the messaging that is currently in game when a half-elf asks about citizenship in Ta'Vaalor:
>The clerk slams down her quill and looks you in the face with a mixture of revulsion and disqust before saying, "XXX, you are allowed in the Fortress by the grace of the King and the Council. Do not mistake the opportunity to trade for an invitation to belong. You do not now, nor will you ever, qualify for citizenship in the Fortress."<
If one has never dealt with that in a visceral and real way, one might not realize how horrifying those words are. The solution is to squelch them from our play existence, play another race, or play someplace else, because it is a game. Here is a large clue: There are players that are only recently seeing the eastern side of the Dragonspine since the restrictions on race have opened up. Because of this sort of horribleness. No one that deals with it in real life wants to play it.
As for WORDS NATURALLY fall out of favor and change meaning. This has happened in the medical community because of the way that people latched onto certain words in hurtful and demeaning ways. It is an evolution of language. If certain individuals want to hold onto those meanings, that is their prerogative, but will no longer end up being part of the general zeitgeist. There is an actual term for this phenomenon, however I forget it at this time.
OM1E5GA:
>Just because someone doesn't agree with you does not mean they did not listen.<
I fully agree, and appreciate that.
>And yet the ones that would enact censorship based on their personal feelings expect any that would disagree to keep their heads down and suck it up.<
I would like to know what personal stake someone has in the matter that wants to use a words that is deemed a slur?
>Exactly. It's not just about how any of us personally feel.<
I'll get to this in a second.
>I stand where I do precisely because I have been on both sides of the "hurt". I regularly see people that are "surprised" or "cannot understand" why people don't agree with them, that is far more of an indication that they have not looked at it from both sides then anything else.<
I have served in the Armed Forces and had yelling matches with people wearing Confederate belt buckles, not understanding their points of view. I have been called slurs, intentionally and unintentionally, and had bunk mates say that I was the only person of color that they have ever had as a friend. Rather than live in rage, I have had to learn to live side by side these people, so that we could be a cohesive fighting unit. One of them died on the way to my home, and I mourn him ever year as a brother, even knowing that he still held some of these beliefs, because he was the kindest and sweetest goof that I can remember. I say this in all calmness, I know how to look at both sides, and it's not about a few moments of hurt feelings. This is a lifetime of learning to accept and grow.
INTHEFACE:
>Huh, your post didn't seem to offer alternative views other than the normal "You're wrong unless you cater to me" mentality.<
What, aside from the normal view of "ignore it" view has been presented? Someone offered a list of alternatives, and that was a nice move forward before the rush of posts such as this. My character has been attacked many times, and this could be why the initial subject was dropped and it is a cycle that will keep repeating. It rather seems like the other side of the argument is the one that has this mentality, and will shut down the conversation, rather than wanting to work toward proper solutions.
>Get off LNET, problem solved. I've never seen RL racism slurs used in GS. Maybe it's the people you hang out with?<
I don't listen to LNET, thank you kindly. I will not make any assumptions on your character or the people you spend time with, because that is unkind and rude.
>Searching under every rock for any hint of racism isn't "woke", it's called being toxic. Some of the most racist people I've met proclaimed they were against racism.<
Thank you for your assessment.
>You're right, it's not one person's world. So why do you expect me to cater to your world?<
Because it's not only your world or mine, as stated in my original post. Nor is this a good look for anyone new running into this again and again.
>This is a lie.<
Again, I'll thank you not to hurl aspirations about my character. In your personal view, this is a lie. This is not a falsehood for everyone. If we cannot cater to me, and we cannot cater to you, then we should attempt to make the place as welcoming as possible for everyone. Unfortunately, I'm sure, that would not mean sprinkling more of this language around the game. It would then beg the question of which reality is more generally acceptable.
>I call it dramatic and triggered when you tell me I need to follow the beat of your drum and if I don't then I'm "racist".<
Interesting thing, I never used that word. I rather think standing up for something I believed in a clear and concise manner, really brought up a lot of anger. And yes, perhaps a bit of pain in its own right, because change is painful. And perhaps people don't like being called names for things that they never thought were incorrect and wrong. But being faced with people finally saying, in a world stage, that they find the behavior unacceptable, and that YES, they have specific feelings about it, will keep happening. And that label WILL keep coming up in this instance.
>Let me translate - "If you don't agree with my views you're racist".<
I did not have any specific views toward a particular poster in the thread. I'm simply tired of watching the conversation being shouted down. Being attacked for my views, instead of them being able to be discussed calmly makes me think someone is racist.
>There is no deflection. A majority of the player base, and the US, are against racism. We also don't feel the need to turn over every stone looking for something to label as racist. As I stated before, if you want to remove the word "Gyspy" then you also need to remove "Cracker", "Dwarf", "Gnome", and "Halfling" since those are also racial slurs and/or derogatory labels for small people. I don't see you leading the charge on that. The best part of these posts are how hypocritical OPs paint themselves without knowing it.<
The conversation was not centered around those words. I ignored the sidebar as baiting, and as a slippery slope argument. In other words: deflection. Or fear mongering. "If we can't have this, then nothing will be allowed!" A way of knocking the board game on the floor so that no one can enjoy it, if you will. A tantrum.
Halflings in the game are called Truefolk. Giants are Giantkin, and it is adorable. By all means, change the names. You are not making a bad argument, and it gives them more identity beyond the traditional tropes.
If crackers are offensive to you... I am not certain what to say. Oh, my.
And I won't be responding to anyone else post by post. I don't want to feed trolls. Oh, goodness, crackers offensive. I'm giggling.
>You know, maybe they're right. Maybe if we don't like something, we just remove it from our own game experience altogether.
>That's one of the things I like when these conversations bring the Slippery Slope Crew up from their sewers- they reveal themselves and the rest of us can now take the necessary steps to arbitrate their existence.
I started reading this thinking, oh, he is going to be rationally considering using the convent game system to avoid being triggered by a certain word choice. Maybe even a nice introspection about why some need to invent evils to rail against.
Nah, just an intro to calling people who disagree names.
Sweet is the sound of the pouring rain,
And the stream that falls from the hill to plain.
Better than rain or rippling brook,
Is a mug of beer inside this Took.
>That's one of the things I like when these conversations bring the Slippery Slope Crew up from their sewers- they reveal themselves and the rest of us can now take the necessary steps to arbitrate their existence.
I started reading this thinking, oh, he is going to be rationally considering using the convent game system to avoid being triggered by a certain word choice. Maybe even a nice introspection about why some need to invent evils to rail against.
Nah, just an intro to calling people who disagree names.
Sweet is the sound of the pouring rain,
And the stream that falls from the hill to plain.
Better than rain or rippling brook,
Is a mug of beer inside this Took.
The closest anything in GS comes to bothering me is, well, basically everything about erithians. I assume it's mostly a "me" thing since A) no one else ever seems to bring them up in these conversations, and B) I'm reasonably sure they're not meant to be offensive nor even weird me out, even though they do.
So this is probably the only time in five years that I've done more than mention it in passing. I don't have any interest in it changing if no one else is bothered. That said, to me the perfect description of the erithian lore is...
>a problematic construct of ethnic/racial fetishizing
...and that's why, every year, I ignore every lore document coming out of the erithian-heavy Rumor Woods event. (Not just this year, but past years.) The whole race somehow being shrouded in mystery after being known to the rest of the world for 1500 years really comes across as a not-especially-neutral Orientalism and rendering them "the other."
All that said, it's a fantasy world, so... alright, sure. I just leave it be and try to detach even things like surita from erithians in my mind to justify why I have some.
So this is probably the only time in five years that I've done more than mention it in passing. I don't have any interest in it changing if no one else is bothered. That said, to me the perfect description of the erithian lore is...
>a problematic construct of ethnic/racial fetishizing
...and that's why, every year, I ignore every lore document coming out of the erithian-heavy Rumor Woods event. (Not just this year, but past years.) The whole race somehow being shrouded in mystery after being known to the rest of the world for 1500 years really comes across as a not-especially-neutral Orientalism and rendering them "the other."
All that said, it's a fantasy world, so... alright, sure. I just leave it be and try to detach even things like surita from erithians in my mind to justify why I have some.
>>If crackers are offensive to you... I am not certain what to say. Oh, my.
>>And I won't be responding to anyone else post by post. I don't want to feed trolls. Oh, goodness, crackers offensive. I'm giggling.
Perhaps you should go look up the definition of the word if you don't understand the point.
>>And I won't be responding to anyone else post by post. I don't want to feed trolls. Oh, goodness, crackers offensive. I'm giggling.
Perhaps you should go look up the definition of the word if you don't understand the point.
So, my only input to this (specific-to-'gypsy') conversation is this:
The Romani people, the OG Gypsies, have unanimously voted (as of the first World Romani Conference in 1971) to reject all exonym-words, including Gypsy. (Source, the end of the second paragraph of the Romani Wikipedia article: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romani_people )
However, on a different page on Wikipedia ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Names_of_the_Romani_people#Gypsy_and_gipsy ), it states that the words Gypsy and Gipsy are still used internally by some Romani people, as well as the word Gipsy having various non-Romani definitions under English Law (as "person of nomadic life").
So, perhaps we should change the Gypsy Fortuneteller to be the Gipsy Fortuneteller. Who knows, maybe a single letter can make a difference to those who cringe at the usage of "gypsy"?
~Cylnthia Kythnis Ardenai
~Inquisitor of Kuon
~Rose Guardian, House Sylvanfair
The Romani people, the OG Gypsies, have unanimously voted (as of the first World Romani Conference in 1971) to reject all exonym-words, including Gypsy. (Source, the end of the second paragraph of the Romani Wikipedia article: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romani_people )
However, on a different page on Wikipedia ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Names_of_the_Romani_people#Gypsy_and_gipsy ), it states that the words Gypsy and Gipsy are still used internally by some Romani people, as well as the word Gipsy having various non-Romani definitions under English Law (as "person of nomadic life").
So, perhaps we should change the Gypsy Fortuneteller to be the Gipsy Fortuneteller. Who knows, maybe a single letter can make a difference to those who cringe at the usage of "gypsy"?
~Cylnthia Kythnis Ardenai
~Inquisitor of Kuon
~Rose Guardian, House Sylvanfair
