Enough people seemed interested in foraging earlier this year that I'll post my skinning research. Pinning down a skinning formula is pretty hopeless, because we never see the roll and because there are a zillion factos. Further, I chose to research in myklians, and the various color myklians are different levels, but I did not account for that. It should average out over time, but is another source of randomness. Additionally, we know skin value is affected by loot pressure, and it's possible the skin success is affected by it as well. Finally, myklians are known to have received attention from GMs some time ago, due to a large-scale silver-mining operation, and so what is true for them may not be true for any other creature in the game. However, over the course of perhaps 2000 myklians (950 of which I tracked carefully), I think I can add something to our knowledge of skinning, so here you have it.Unless otherwise noted, I skinned while kneeling, in offensive stance, with a small blade in my right hand, nothing in my left. I generally had minor scars on both hands, and nowhere else, but I did not control that perfectly. When I killed the myklians with mana disruption, which means they had multiple rank 1 and 2 injuries at time of death. When I killed myklians with bloodburst, they died with just a single rank 2 neck injury. However, in both cases, the higher-level myklians have pretty high TD , and sometimes I would kill with focused maelstrom instead. This was perhaps 5% of cases, as blue and purple myklians are somewhat rare, and I still blasted them with MD/BB a lot of the time.
*How much of a difference do survival ranks make?*
45 ranks FA
23 ranks Survival
20 ranks perception
Level 43 sorcerer
bloodburst
stiletto in right hand
---
15 skins / 50 attempts (30%)
Same scenario, but 45 ranks of Survival
---
25 skins / 50 attempts (50%)
*Conclusion: Sample size was a little light here, but we see that 22 more ranks (or 46 bonus) yielded 20% more success.*
*Is a skinning knife better than a dagger?*
Level 46 sorc
48 ranks FA
58 ranks survival (yay EG smuggler tunnels)
26 ranks perception
black vultite skinning knife with a troll teeth crossguard in right hand (from latest EG)
mana disrupt
+6 dex stat enhancives, compared to previous test, as well 1 dex stat growth
---
194 skins / 248 attempts (78%)
Same situation, but with a plain dagger:
90 skins / 134 attemps (67%)
I had another trial, n=74, with multiple dimensions varied, so it's not worth much. However, I still suspected that the skinning knife made a difference in that case.
*Conclusion: Sample size is better here. Though this goes against conventional wisdom, it looks like a +10 bonus. I'll stick to my skinning knife.*
*Do wounds on the body matter?*
Same scenario as the n=248 above, but I used 711, which leaves no injuries. It was mana intensive, so I didn't have the patience for a more conclusive number of trials.
29 skins / 33 attempts (88%)
*Conclusion: The small test I ran agrees with the common wisdom that fewer wounds means better skinning chances, with a potential impact of around 10%.*
Bonus: How much of an impact does all of this have on skin value?
I dunno. Average values seemed not to vary a bunch no matter what I was doing.
Skinning research: survival ranks, dagger vs skinning knife, wounds on dead creature on 11/26/2012 01:25 AM CST
Re: Skinning research: survival ranks, dagger vs skinning knife, wounds on dead creature on 11/26/2012 10:10 AM CST
"Bonus: How much of an impact does all of this have on skin value?
I dunno. Average values seemed not to vary a bunch no matter what I was doing." -- Goat
Well, if you're blasting the bones inside the creature and not damaging the skins no matter what the body part, then generally speaking the value of them will be unchanged no matter what.
But if what you're cutting off of them is a "hide", and you tend to "ambush chest | back | abdomen" a lot to get your crit kills, then you'll be carving up the hide that you want to flay off of them and sell. Likewise for "ambush giant left leg" (I don't think you can target the foot) for the toes, or "ambush mare neck" for the manes. I'm not really sure what you might hit that would affect the steeds' tails' sale prices, though. Critters that give a scalp, don't ambush them in the head.
You get the picture.
I dunno. Average values seemed not to vary a bunch no matter what I was doing." -- Goat
Well, if you're blasting the bones inside the creature and not damaging the skins no matter what the body part, then generally speaking the value of them will be unchanged no matter what.
But if what you're cutting off of them is a "hide", and you tend to "ambush chest | back | abdomen" a lot to get your crit kills, then you'll be carving up the hide that you want to flay off of them and sell. Likewise for "ambush giant left leg" (I don't think you can target the foot) for the toes, or "ambush mare neck" for the manes. I'm not really sure what you might hit that would affect the steeds' tails' sale prices, though. Critters that give a scalp, don't ambush them in the head.
You get the picture.
Re: Skinning research: survival ranks, dagger vs skinning knife, wounds on dead creature on 11/26/2012 10:16 AM CST
Value ranges quite a lot if you are skinning something that results in a specific body part rather then a generic skin. Using spells that result in the fewest wounds or aiming a weapon for a kill shot in a non-skin location will give you the best results. For example, if the resulting skin is an ear, eye or tooth, head shots will result in very poor value.
Re: Skinning research: survival ranks, dagger vs skinning knife, wounds on dead creature on 11/26/2012 11:23 AM CST
Re: Skinning research: survival ranks, dagger vs skinning knife, wounds on dead creature on 11/26/2012 11:56 AM CST
Its sufficiently large that a small test will show up the effect of damage to the relevant location. The only thing you need to control is where you hit. The quality will be much lower in damaged skins than the others.
I forget which way round it is, but if you keep whacking a MTK in the chest till its dead, or keep whacking a MTK in the back till its dead, a good skinner will get crude skins worth 50 silvers one way and magnificents worth 1000 silvers the other.
I have a suspicion about damage to other areas having a small effect, but that will take a lot of controlled data to prove and I haven't done it. Damage to the sensitive location carries a huge penalty and its obvious from just skinning half a dozen critters damaged in different ways.
I forget which way round it is, but if you keep whacking a MTK in the chest till its dead, or keep whacking a MTK in the back till its dead, a good skinner will get crude skins worth 50 silvers one way and magnificents worth 1000 silvers the other.
I have a suspicion about damage to other areas having a small effect, but that will take a lot of controlled data to prove and I haven't done it. Damage to the sensitive location carries a huge penalty and its obvious from just skinning half a dozen critters damaged in different ways.
Re: Skinning research: survival ranks, dagger vs skinning knife, wounds on dead creature on 11/26/2012 12:22 PM CST
And this of course raised a huge hullaballoo on the Boards from bolt-casters when the 'ambush' verb was released, because they cannot choose which body part they hit. Most of the weapon-swingers pretty much just went "neener" because of the other massive benefits that spellcasters had, and the design remained unchanged.
Mind you, the aiming weapon-swingers themselves were casting green-eyed envious glances at the CS-based attacks that affected internal organs, like Touch of Disruption [now, Mana Disruption/702], and not anything on the surface at all....
Mind you, the aiming weapon-swingers themselves were casting green-eyed envious glances at the CS-based attacks that affected internal organs, like Touch of Disruption [now, Mana Disruption/702], and not anything on the surface at all....
Re: Skinning research: survival ranks, dagger vs skinning knife, wounds on dead creature on 11/26/2012 12:22 PM CST
The only thing I would add is that there is a difference between quality and value. Quality runs from crude to magnificent and is largely a measure of your skinning ability/stats/etc, while value is a measure of worth in silvers. I am pretty sure they are at least somewhat independant. You can beat the crap out of a critter's head and get a 50 silver tooth that's magnificent quality, or hit one everywhere but the head and get a fair tooth that's worth 600 silvers. I run into this all the time on plane 4 of the rift, where crawler teeth (head) and cerebralite tentacles (right arm) are very location specific.
Kerl
Kerl
Re: Skinning research: survival ranks, dagger vs skinning knife, wounds on dead creature on 11/26/2012 12:55 PM CST
> Quality runs from crude to magnificent and is largely a measure of your skinning ability/stats/etc, while value is a measure of worth in silvers.
I think the way it works is that there is a second die roll (I think of it as size), after quality has been determined from the skinning roll, to get the value. The range of values for higher quality is higher, but there is a lot of overlap. Things like hunting pressure and blessing ranks (if skinning spell used) play into this.
I haven't seen anything that shows damage affecting the size as well as or instead of the quality, but I haven't tried looking for it either.
I think the way it works is that there is a second die roll (I think of it as size), after quality has been determined from the skinning roll, to get the value. The range of values for higher quality is higher, but there is a lot of overlap. Things like hunting pressure and blessing ranks (if skinning spell used) play into this.
I haven't seen anything that shows damage affecting the size as well as or instead of the quality, but I haven't tried looking for it either.
Re: Skinning research: survival ranks, dagger vs skinning knife, wounds on dead creature on 11/26/2012 01:18 PM CST
<< The only thing I would add is that there is a difference between quality and value. Quality runs from crude to magnificent and is largely a measure of your skinning ability/stats/etc, while value is a measure of worth in silvers. I am pretty sure they are at least somewhat independant. You can beat the crap out of a critter's head and get a 50 silver tooth that's magnificent quality, or hit one everywhere but the head and get a fair tooth that's worth 600 silvers. I run into this all the time on plane 4 of the rift, where crawler teeth (head) and cerebralite tentacles (right arm) are very location specific. >> --Kerl
Below is an excerpt from a post by Warden in 2000. It confirms that you are correct that quality and value are somewhat independent.
<< 6. Pelts will have varying degrees of quality based on the success margin of the Skinning attempt. Higher quality pelts will obtain higher prices when sold to the furriers. Additionally, higher quality pelts will be desirable for upcoming Artisan crafts.
<< 7. Creature injuries will be considered when determining pelt quality. If you split a hobgoblin's skull, don't expect to get a high quality scalp.
<< 8. Pelts will have varying values, similar to the varying values of gems. This is a separate determination from the pelt quality, though both are applied to determine the final pelt value. >>
Below is an excerpt from a post by Warden in 2000. It confirms that you are correct that quality and value are somewhat independent.
<< 6. Pelts will have varying degrees of quality based on the success margin of the Skinning attempt. Higher quality pelts will obtain higher prices when sold to the furriers. Additionally, higher quality pelts will be desirable for upcoming Artisan crafts.
<< 7. Creature injuries will be considered when determining pelt quality. If you split a hobgoblin's skull, don't expect to get a high quality scalp.
<< 8. Pelts will have varying values, similar to the varying values of gems. This is a separate determination from the pelt quality, though both are applied to determine the final pelt value. >>
Re: Skinning research: survival ranks, dagger vs skinning knife, wounds on dead creature on 11/27/2012 01:35 AM CST